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Interaction between your own characters.
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Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Interaction between your own characters.
Is it possible to have either direct or indirect interaction between your own characters?
In example, is it possible that one of my characters may have encountered of heard of or spoken to another of my characters? So they are aware of that PC's existence and if asked about him or her they can provide information if they so wished?
Or in an indirect example say I had a character who was a craftsman and was fairly well known by others. If I had another character who wanted some custom made or custom enchanted armor and happened to speak to another player who knew the craftsman and offered to ask him about it, would I be able to contract him to craft/enhance the armor for me despite him being one of my own characters?

Since RP wise a PC does not just vanish when you log off or onto another PC it should be possible yes?
Author:  BrainSplitter [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:17 AM ]
Post subject: 
Your characters do not share information, do not perform activities together, do not assist eachother, do not otherwise interact et-al.

They may co-exist in the same world, but for whatever reason; never truly interact. They may know of eachother, but never more.

There are, admittedly, extremely minor exceptions, though they teeter on the border of being illegal and should be avoided wherever possible.

Also, your last example there would be muling - transfer of equipment from one of your PCs to another.Irrespective of it being soley to perform alterations.
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:23 AM ]
Post subject: 
WonWon wrote:
Also, your last example there would be muling - transfer of equipment from one of your PCs to another.Irrespective of it being soley to perform alterations.


Asking this one question, even though I'm fully aware it might start a shizstorm:

Is it allowed to sell, say, a shield from Hunie to an NPC merchant and then switch characters and go buy it as Daren?

-TeenieGirl95
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:23 AM ]
Post subject: 
Hmm, okay then another example, say I had two characters within the same faction, could one character speak for the other? since it would be impossible for both to be present at the same time.
Ie. One character tells another player to go and recruit one of my other characters or one would say that the other had left a message that he was going somewhere, ect.
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:25 AM ]
Post subject: 
SLS wrote:
say I had two characters within the same faction,


Don't. Do. That.

Seriously.
Author:  Gers [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:36 AM ]
Post subject: 
Herra Tutteri wrote:
Asking this one question, even though I'm fully aware it might start a shizstorm:

Is it allowed to sell, say, a shield from Hunie to an NPC merchant and then switch characters and go buy it as Daren?

-TeenieGirl95


Teeniegirl would get slapped for muling.
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:38 AM ]
Post subject: 
Herra Tutteri wrote:
SLS wrote:
say I had two characters within the same faction,


Don't. Do. That.

Seriously.


Um, okay, care to explain?
Author:  BrainSplitter [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:39 AM ]
Post subject: 
SLS wrote:
Hmm, okay then another example, say I had two characters within the same faction, could one character speak for the other? since it would be impossible for both to be present at the same time.
Ie. One character tells another player to go and recruit one of my other characters or one would say that the other had left a message that he was going somewhere, ect.


Ideally it shouldn't happen. Multiple PCs in one faction makes big problems.

On top of that - you shouldn't have one character speaking for another of yours. Ever. Ever, ever, ever, ever.
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 10:43 AM ]
Post subject: 
Okay then, thanks for the responses everyone.
Author:  Gunz [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 11:11 AM ]
Post subject: 
To be fair, there are quite a few people who do this -- the whole having characters who interact with each other. Personally, I hate it and don't do it but to each his own.
Author:  BrainSplitter [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 11:29 AM ]
Post subject: 
I'm very Anal Retentive about it. If I see it happening, there's a very slim chance I won't bring it up. There are only certain, controlled, circumstances where I'll tolerate it - and usually it's because the player has illustrated that they know -exactly- where the lines are.
Author:  Yurell [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 11:32 AM ]
Post subject: 
o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:
To be fair, there are quite a few people who do this -- the whole having characters who interact with each other. Personally, I hate it and don't do it but to each his own.


Better to avoid it altogether than to tempt fate.

As for the other question about selling, the rule (from what I understand it) comes down to:

If you own Character A and Character B, there is no legal way to get anything that was ever possessed by Character A to Character B or vice-versa.
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 11:53 AM ]
Post subject: 
Gers wrote:
Herra Tutteri wrote:
Asking this one question, even though I'm fully aware it might start a shizstorm:

Is it allowed to sell, say, a shield from Hunie to an NPC merchant and then switch characters and go buy it as Daren?

-TeenieGirl95


Teeniegirl would get slapped for muling.


What? There's still the risk someone buys it off ya. And besides, wouldn't that be possible? Hunie thinks the shield's just crap and sells it away and Daren thinks "ooh, a shield!" and spends a couple hundred gold pieces to buy it... Meh.

Anyway.

SLS wrote:
Herra Tutteri wrote:
SLS wrote:
say I had two characters within the same faction,


Don't. Do. That.

Seriously.


Um, okay, care to explain?


It just screws things up and creates awkward situations. Why should you have two characters in one faction anyway? Isn't one enough? Join some other faction with another character.
Author:  Moonangel [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 12:00 PM ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
What? There's still the risk someone buys it off ya. And besides, wouldn't that be possible? Hunie thinks the shield's just crap and sells it away and Daren thinks "ooh, a shield!" and spends a couple hundred gold pieces to buy it... Meh.


The risk is pretty much zero if you sell at some awkward place none goes to, and even less if you make sure your other char is already there when you log on. Also people usually don't mule shields worth a few hundred gold pieces but the expensive +5 tower shield you really wouldn't just merchant anyway.

And funnily, not long ago people argued for quite the opposite, saying that a player should not join several factions and just stick to one. Hehe.

Thing that kind of bugs me is people and their friends creating a bunch of alts to vote on stuff like the winyan council elections, though when it was brought up a dm said it's alright too, so...
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 12:00 PM ]
Post subject: 
SLS wrote:
Herra Tutteri wrote:
SLS wrote:
say I had two characters within the same faction,


Don't. Do. That.

Seriously.


Um, okay, care to explain?


It just screws things up and creates awkward situations. Why should you have two characters in one faction anyway? Isn't one enough? Join some other faction with another character.[/quote]


Cause one of them is to damn important to show his face around anyone?
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 12:07 PM ]
Post subject: 
Moonangel wrote:
Quote:
What? There's still the risk someone buys it off ya. And besides, wouldn't that be possible? Hunie thinks the shield's just crap and sells it away and Daren thinks "ooh, a shield!" and spends a couple hundred gold pieces to buy it... Meh.


The risk is pretty much zero if you sell at some awkward place none goes to, and even less if you make sure your other char is already there when you log on. Also people usually don't mule shields worth a few hundred gold pieces but the expensive +5 tower shield you really wouldn't just merchant anyway.


Well, then say you must sell it to Haur or someone else... Either way, I think it sucks bottocks not being able to transfer an item in any way to the other character that would need it.

And I know the items wouldn't be worth hundreds, but hundreds of thousands. Still, little gain to Hunie for the shield, moderate loss for Daren and the risk Mr. X snatches it from right under your eyes.
It think that's quite damn legit.

Moonangel wrote:
And funnily, not long ago people argued for quite the opposite, saying that a player should not join several factions and just stick to one. Hehe.


Depends on how much time the player's got. I think it's worse to have multiple characters in one faction rather than having a couple of characters in as many factions.
And besides, the player still hasn't got too much time for both characters, no matter whether they share a faction or don't.
Author:  Moonangel [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 12:16 PM ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Well, then say you must sell it to Haur or someone else... Either way, I think it sucks bottocks not being able to transfer an item in any way to the other character that would need it.


Agreed on this, if it was up to me there would be shared inventory between characters like guildwars has, if you hunted for hours to get an epic drop, you may as well get some use out of it, you worked to ''earn'' it after all. Though since mulling is against the rules (despite my oppinion that it should not be), merching stuff would just be trying to get around it. :)
Author:  FA_Frey_XC [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 12:27 PM ]
Post subject: 
This is not guildwars. This is not WoW. This is not Age of Conan.

Image

:)

Proceed.

Regards,
Author:  Terra_777 [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 13:42 PM ]
Post subject: 
Items are tracked by the way. Everything. From the moment you pick it up until its core memory item structure is deleted, which only happens if the item is inside the mod when it restarts.
Author:  Cayle [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 14:08 PM ]
Post subject: 
I’m not a fan of muling, but I’m not sure I’d call that muling. You are not using one of your characters to twink another and your characters are not directly interacting. One is selling an item to a merchant and the other is paying a fair market rate (presuming that the merchant is not buggy) for the item. Granted, there is OOC knowledge that item X is available at merchant Y, but the second character still has to buy it on the open market.
Author:  Uncle-Opustus [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 14:14 PM ]
Post subject: 
Herra Tutteri wrote:

Asking this one question, even though I'm fully aware it might start a shizstorm:

Is it allowed to sell, say, a shield from Hunie to an NPC merchant and then switch characters and go buy it as Daren?

-TeenieGirl95


It's HorseGirl, you unclecrackingmothercracker.
Author:  BrainSplitter [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 14:14 PM ]
Post subject: 
It's still muling.

Muling is the transfer of an item between one PC to another PC played by the same player.

How you do it doesn't matter. That you lose a token amount of gold to do so likewise, doesn't matter. I could sell an Ioun Stone to a merchant and buy it for only 50k (as the 'market' value), despite it being a 1mil+ item.
Author:  Peeves [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 14:38 PM ]
Post subject: 
Hey guys. Muling is bad. If you don't know what it is, go to the rules forum, and read up on it.

Moreover,
Image
Author:  Geld Yaztran [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 14:56 PM ]
Post subject: 
Muling is bad because the lower character didn't actually earn it. Furthermore he didn't even happen upon it, because you found it as another character, sold it at a store knowing your other character is now going to show up two minutes later.

Multiple characters in one faction is REALLY bad because you can practically share almost all but the most personal of knowledge. And that's not even if they are trying. Many times people can confuse what one character knows, with another.

Same in Multiple characters in multiple factions, especially when the factions are actually opposed to each other.

Plus Multiple char/Multiple Fact lessen each of your characters playing times and such, making each character you make lessening themselves and every other characters time in said factions. I usually play one character in a faction and multiple ones who are factionless.....when I get bored I eventually leave faction or simply switch characters.
Author:  Nekhy [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 15:20 PM ]
Post subject: 
It's very simple: selling from an epic to a merchant and coming to buy the same item as a lowbie gives that lowbie an unfair advantage. Plus you are metagaming. I don't buy that character A just happens to sell to a merchant, and then goes about his business (ie, logs out) and then character B just happens to wander to the same merchant (after the player logged back in) and buy the stuff character A sold.

Characters just need to be kept separate, without any sort of information about secret factions or items sold to merchants travelling from one to another via the player.
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 15:32 PM ]
Post subject: 
So what happens if the character really DOES happen across it by chance?

Say your out hunting with a party and find some armor you can't use but someone else in the party can so you sell it to him. Say few hours later or the next day you log another character and see him selling the armor at the market hall because he found/bought/got a better set and this time your character can use it so you buy the armor.

Would that be considered metagaming? and this HAS happened to me before, I did not buy the armor from him because I was a cheapskate but I could have non?
Author:  Jyro X [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 15:40 PM ]
Post subject: 
I'd say that's an iffy situation at best and would avoid doing something like that at all costs mate.
Author:  Peeves [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 15:46 PM ]
Post subject: 
Rule of thumb: Has another character of yours held that item? Yes? Don't touch it. kthxbai.
Author:  Nekhy [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 16:02 PM ]
Post subject: 
SLS wrote:
So what happens if the character really DOES happen across it by chance?

Say your out hunting with a party and find some armor you can't use but someone else in the party can so you sell it to him. Say few hours later or the next day you log another character and see him selling the armor at the market hall because he found/bought/got a better set and this time your character can use it so you buy the armor.

Would that be considered metagaming? and this HAS happened to me before, I did not buy the armor from him because I was a cheapskate but I could have non?


I guess I wasn't clear enough: we do not buy any explanations of such chance. The chances of it happening by accident are probably lower than winning the lottery, given the player always knows they sold items to a certain merchant and the merchants are wiped clean at resets and after every few interaction with other players. It's not possible to be ignorant of an item you sold to a merchant a moment ago with your other character if you see the same item on the same merchant.

There's an unlikely chance that another player sold just the same item to the same merchant around the same time that you did. If you buy it and a DM checks you and notices your character possessing it before, you'll be questioned.

Same applies to items you sold to friends and want to buy back on another character. There may be exceptional situations, but never ever count on them without consulting a DM.

Quote:
Rule of thumb: Has another character of yours held that item? Yes? Don't touch it. kthxbai.


This is it in a nutshell. Better be safe than sorry.
Author:  P Three [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 16:08 PM ]
Post subject: 
I've actually had the same "interacting with your chars" question, because I was told it was bad, but then I see very prominent players doing it. (No, I will /not/ name names, I'm just tossing an example.

It's confusing at best, and could lead to innocent people who don't know better getting in trouble. If we see this, should we do anything?
Author:  Delarwyn [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 16:19 PM ]
Post subject: 
I play Delarwyn and Shalwyn and they are sisters. To avoid any time of situation in which I would be tempt to interact or use one's information for the another. I made them dislike each other. Shalwyn won't ever help or speak for her sister because she just dislikes her. If she is made to speak for Delarwyn it will be very negatively.

Alynne is my crafter and she is a damn good one. I need so many things done for my characters you wouldn't have idea. I found out that Crunch can do the same crafting and now I ask him if my character knows him to do it for me.

I play a girl in Kohlingen, a girl in Cordor/Forstakkr, a girl all over the place, a faerie that lives in the Forest, but I may be moving her to Winya now that faeries are allowed there again. I have a character living in the Grove, a character living in Winya, a character living in the Shrine that wants access to visit Winya.

So, Winya is a city where I may have two characters residents and one visitor, and that is the closest I got from belonging to the same faction. Why I do that? Because it makes the possibility of interaction and RP much richer. I have the ability to rp with so many more people and in the end I meet people that can offer all my characters can offer.

So, besides the fact that you don't have the means to have something and you want another of your chars that have the means to help you, there is no reason that you cannot get wherever you need from another player.
Author:  762 [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 16:49 PM ]
Post subject: 
I basically do the same with Gurth and Araxus, who are father and son. The main reason it works for me is Araxus is scared to death of his father and wants absolutely nothing to do with him.

Otherwise it would get very awkward.
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 17:27 PM ]
Post subject: 
Right, so if i had not laid hands on the item (ie. if someone else got it) but wanted it for another character of mine and saw that person selling it (with or without prior knowledge) on my other character, that would be fine?
Author:  Peeves [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 17:40 PM ]
Post subject: 
SLS wrote:
Right, so if i had not laid hands on the item (ie. if someone else got it) but wanted it for another character of mine and saw that person selling it (with or without prior knowledge) on my other character, that would be fine?


Be honest in RP. If a party member picked something up, and you didn't purposely go looking for that member again, I would assume this would be fine.
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 18:35 PM ]
Post subject: 
Hmm here's something I've been pondering, been trying ti get my hands on empty pages for quite awhile without much luck, they can be made with either a miller, scribe, or tanner job.

What if I had a PC that literally flooded the market with parchments (cause apparently their REALLY hard to get so there is profit to be made), would it be okay for me to buy a few on another PC then?
Author:  Peeves [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 18:37 PM ]
Post subject: 
Poorvincente wrote:
Rule of thumb: Has another character of yours held that item? Yes? Don't touch it. kthxbai.


No.
My suggestion would be to post an advertisement looking for blank pages.
Author:  IronAngel [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:03 PM ]
Post subject: 
Job system resources are exempt from the muling rule. You can sell your products to NPC vendors and buy them on another PC. I suppose this goes for PCs too, as long as you use common sense and don't simply use a friend to mule stuff between a dedicated job PC and your main PC. You did the IC work, you invested time and effort, and you pay the price.

It's of course nicer to interact with other players.
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:06 PM ]
Post subject: 
wait so it's okay to get empty pages that way? really?
Author:  IronAngel [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:07 PM ]
Post subject: 
If there is a job system merchant that buys and sells them, yes. That's what has been explicitly ruled: the job vendors who store resources in the database can be used regardless of where the resources may have come from.

I would suppose this applies to normal merchants and PCs, too. That's what I would have ruled, but it has not come up.
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:13 PM ]
Post subject: 
Hmm but there would first have to be a merchant who sells the parchment right? Far as I know people keep saying no merchant sells empty pages.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:16 PM ]
Post subject: 
I've had two of my characters fight in the past through forum RP. It was a physical confrontation, and they know each other by name, but that's absolutely it. I have no intention of them interacting in any way again soon(if they do, it will just be another fight), but I was musing with the idea of one actually doing the other in eventually.

Was/Is this breach of "no interaction" rule? I wrote out the whole scenario of them fighting long ago and didn't even realize it might be a bit iffy, considering the only transaction that was occuring was that of fists.
Author:  Torzeng [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:25 PM ]
Post subject: 
SLS wrote:
Hmm but there would first have to be a merchant who sells the parchment right? Far as I know people keep saying no merchant sells empty pages.


It might be Textile trader, as to best I could guess. I've never actually tried to find which trader will purchase the Blank Pager, or if one does. There may not be since there is no list of blank pages "in stock" [ http://www.amiaworld.net/about/ds_j_stocks.php ]

In other news, there are PC's able to make blank pages.
[ http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=37746 ] An index ICly of PC's who've been put into a directory. Like a yellow-pages I guess.

EDIT: [For below to prevent clutterkill]

My bad... Empty pages, glad you caught that there is on the stock. :oops:
Author:  SLS [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:29 PM ]
Post subject: 
Might be cause they are called empty pages not blank pages, seems only available on server B and only two of them.. poo. Still I guess that means it's okay to sell/buy between PCs, and thanks for the list, that will be highly useful, I just hope the people on there actually still play.
Author:  ILoveIceCream [ Tue, Feb 23 2010, 1:05 AM ]
Post subject: 
Let's say I got an epic item...a ioun stone. I sell it to some PC for a million gold, now let's say half a year later that pc I sold it to decideds to rebuild, and no longer needs the Ion stone, he sells it to someone else for a couple million. Now let's say somewhere down the road, like 2 years later, that pc is selling that ioun stone that he bought....I have a new character now, that ion stone will be good for my character, my character decides to buy it but I had no idea it was the original ion stone my first character looted.....would I be penalized and punished for -muling-?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Feb 23 2010, 1:12 AM ]
Post subject: 
DMs have common snese, believe it or not.
Author:  jafman30 [ Tue, Feb 23 2010, 1:37 AM ]
Post subject: 
If you give your friend an item, with or without the intent to mule, and wait a YEAR before getting it from him, it should be alright. I mean, you waited a long arse time for that. Longer than I could wait.
Author:  Bravo21 [ Tue, Feb 23 2010, 4:04 AM ]
Post subject: 
jafman30 wrote:
If you give your friend an item, with or without the intent to mule, and wait a YEAR before getting it from him, it should be alright. I mean, you waited a long arse time for that. Longer than I could wait.


Dedication to muling is still muling however the intent or timeframe.

The reason there is a rule for it is because it deals with player knowledge and metagamming. In that, because your PC's cannot interact, they also would not have knowledge of another of your PC's actions.

This is waived to a certain extent for RP purposes on the forums, as long as there is no interaction that violates what a particular PC would reasonably know. An example, a player playing both an experienced father and his impulsive daughter, would if either were killed, reasonably find out at some point.

The point is, that, gaining an unfair advantage, no matter the reasoning, good intent or no, convoluted or simple is not allowed. If your PC cannot have knowlege of it, assume it's not allowed.
Author:  ainjyll [ Tue, Feb 23 2010, 5:00 AM ]
Post subject: 
Just a tidbit on having multiple characters in one faction:

It's a pretty common practice within the drow community and I see no real problem with it. It can sometimes be quite difficult to have characters that somehow end up in rival factions. It makes the player have to chose which character they like more and this can never end up well. It also provides a large bit of bait to metagame, which may be more than some can bear.

Besides, it's fun having two characters who live in the same place, but somehow always manage to just miss each other by a few moments.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Feb 23 2010, 5:01 AM ]
Post subject: 
If you tried to give me the excuse "But I waited a year to do it!" to me, I would throw yuor excuse in the circular and strip you anyways since you just admitted to breaking the rule. No matter how convoluted your plan was.
Author:  ainjyll [ Tue, Feb 23 2010, 5:06 AM ]
Post subject: 
Heh... if someone goes a year without getting their hands on whatever it is that they're attempting to mule, then they really need some lessons in how to play the game.
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