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Class Mods
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45508		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  brooksthegreat [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 4:29 AM ]
Post subject:  Class Mods
I've heard a whole mess about this class being changed further, this ability being changed, this being altered, etc etc. Is there anywhere a list or the like of what is being done to what?

If not.. would anyone be willing to post a summary or the like? I'm specifically curious in what's being done to Paladins (I've heard something about Divine Shield/Might being changed) and monks.

Thanks.
Author:  Gers [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 4:42 AM ]
Post subject: 
Paladins/BGs are getting their saves and divine might and shield changed. The maximum damage, saves, or AC you can get from the abilties will be tied to your paladin levels. So, you will no longer see paladins or BG with 2 levels in the class, and all else being sorcerer, getting +14 or +15 AC or saves from divine grace/divine shield.

Monks might be getting a circle kick feat fix as well. Or at least a modification. Their monk Wisdom AC also does not apply in shifted forms (sorry monk/shifters), and will be limited by their monk levels. 6 monk for IKD? You get a maximum of 6 extra AC from your wis mod.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 4:52 AM ]
Post subject: 
Flurry if possible should be applied at 6 Monk aswell. But thats just my personal opinion and its based on Dragon Shifters and all unarmed Shifts getting Bonus attacks at -3AB. Its the little mentioned but well useful feature of the DragonMonk.
Author:  Yurell [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 4:52 AM ]
Post subject: 
Will the monk level benefits kick in from when they're ordinarily supposed to, or with the already exist Amia modified level?
Author:  Gers [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 4:58 AM ]
Post subject: 
I believe that with the HAK changes, the monk abilities kick in as they did pre-HAK. They just don't require you to be booted for LETO scripts to modify your file.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 6:07 AM ]
Post subject: 
Yurell wrote:
Will the monk level benefits kick in from when they're ordinarily supposed to, or with the already exist Amia modified level?


Monk AC is still level 3.
Author:  brooksthegreat [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 6:09 AM ]
Post subject: 
so a player going (mostly) pure monk won't notice much of a difference, I'm assuming?

I know shifter just got an overhaul..are any other classes looking at similar upgrades/changes?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 6:12 AM ]
Post subject: 
It's unlike any monk with more than 8 or 10 monk levels will notice a difference. You would need more than 30 wisdom to notice beyond level 10. This is uncommon for even dex based monks who tend to to p out around 26.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 7:31 AM ]
Post subject: 
On the topic of class alterations, I've a few scattered questions:

Is it possible to just give BG a "Spellbook" like paladin? I heard they're getting new spells(at least Divine Favor), but of course in PnP, they get a whole slew of choosable spells. Is it possible with HAKs? If so, would it/has it been considered?

Would it be possible to count cleric levels in the effective CL's for Smite Good for BG? I add the stipulation that BG levels must be > cleric levels for this to work. My reasoning for this is so that a cleric lv 28 with 2 BG wont have an effective smite level of 30, but a PC with 8 cleric and 22 BG would equal a Paladin lv 30 in terms of smiting power.

Is it possible to make the Shadow Variants able to be metamagicked through HAKs? Right now, they can be stilled, but that's it. By Shadow Variants, I mean Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Conjuration, and Shades.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 8:54 AM ]
Post subject: 
Dark Immolation wrote:
On the topic of class alterations, I've a few scattered questions:

Is it possible to just give BG a "Spellbook" like paladin? I heard they're getting new spells(at least Divine Favor), but of course in PnP, they get a whole slew of choosable spells. Is it possible with HAKs? If so, would it/has it been considered?

Would it be possible to count cleric levels in the effective CL's for Smite Good for BG? I add the stipulation that BG levels must be > cleric levels for this to work. My reasoning for this is so that a cleric lv 28 with 2 BG wont have an effective smite level of 30, but a PC with 8 cleric and 22 BG would equal a Paladin lv 30 in terms of smiting power.

Is it possible to make the Shadow Variants able to be metamagicked through HAKs? Right now, they can be stilled, but that's it. By Shadow Variants, I mean Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Conjuration, and Shades.


1: Possible? Yes. Feasible? Disco told me to make a list of feats, unstead of scripting a book. I guess that answers your question.

2: Why BGs and not Paladins? No.

3: No clue.
Author:  Mr Mago [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 8:56 AM ]
Post subject: 
Because BG is a prestige class, and can't go above 20.

Not to mention a BG can't take CoT either, which stacks with the paladin smites.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 8:57 AM ]
Post subject: 
Still against it. Inconsistent.
Author:  Mr Mago [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 8:59 AM ]
Post subject: 
Maybe it is.

But it's still one of many things which makes Paladin >>> BG.

And it's also the reason why a Paladin has a Max Crit Smite of 1640 compared to the BG equivalent of 900-ish.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 9:01 AM ]
Post subject: 
Cleirc doesn't touch smites. For either side.

The only thing I could support is a mod to Turn Undead that makes TU classes stack for purposes for TU strength, not "Takes highest".

Or maybe I'm dumb an dTerra did that already. I think I suggested it before....
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 11:33 AM ]
Post subject: 
I support a featlist, instead of the tacky we have currently.

Like, yesterday. When i heard of Thundering Rage, that it had been altered. I thought it was splendid, But if i had known it before - I could actually have taken it into calculation.

Same with Paladin/BG saves + Sorcerer. It's fantastic, and very good that it gets balanced, but damn why is there no list.
Author:  drahgon [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 12:27 PM ]
Post subject: 
Thundering rage is altered?
Author:  IronAngel [ Sun, Feb 21 2010, 13:04 PM ]
Post subject: 
Anyone is welcome to compile such a list. It's easy to keep asking for one, but you might as well make one if you want to get it done. The information is out there.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Mon, Feb 22 2010, 19:36 PM ]
Post subject: 
Dark Immolation wrote:
Is it possible to make the Shadow Variants able to be metamagicked through HAKs? Right now, they can be stilled, but that's it. By Shadow Variants, I mean Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Conjuration, and Shades.


Anyone with knowledge of HAKs and scripts know if it is even possible to do this?
Author:  Riddle [ Wed, Feb 24 2010, 18:10 PM ]
Post subject: 
drahgon wrote:
Thundering rage is altered?


I looked for a thread and I couldnt find anything. Where could I look at the changes if there are any?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Wed, Feb 24 2010, 18:16 PM ]
Post subject: 
It used to be listed in the sidebar. I don't know where it went.

It adds 1d8 sonic damage and dc 20 stun to your weapon for rage duration.
Author:  Riddle [ Wed, Feb 24 2010, 18:29 PM ]
Post subject: 
TormakSaber wrote:
It used to be listed in the sidebar. I don't know where it went.

It adds 1d8 sonic damage and dc 20 stun to your weapon for rage duration.


Stun fortitude or will?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Wed, Feb 24 2010, 18:31 PM ]
Post subject: 
The onhit stun is will.

Cue complaints.
Author:  Riddle [ Wed, Feb 24 2010, 18:43 PM ]
Post subject: 
Thank you.

PS: What complaints? :P
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Wed, Feb 24 2010, 21:30 PM ]
Post subject: 
freedom or minblank should fix it.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Wed, Feb 24 2010, 23:13 PM ]
Post subject: 
I think Tormie meant the complaints from Barbie's using it and saying "But mindblank blah blah blah".

In reality, I think it's better that way anyway. I wouldn't think to drink a mindblank before fighting a barb if I didnt know that the rage added stun, so maybe that's the surprise. And if it were fort, it'd just be overlapping with Dev,making for another cheap spamming game-win effect based on 1's. Not needed.
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 6:09 AM ]
Post subject: 
If we're giving out suggestions... HiPS COOLDOWN!
Author:  Yurell [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 6:11 AM ]
Post subject: 
Would be nice, but from what I understand it's particularly difficult (and laggy) to implement.
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 6:30 AM ]
Post subject: 
Nah, we've descended to using haks now. I doubt it will be difficult with those. Besides, I think we might want to at least try it.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 6:42 AM ]
Post subject: 
Away with you, argument.
Author:  Riddle [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 6:45 AM ]
Post subject: 
I'm well aware of what stops stun. And my question still stands :) I'm speaking for the barbarians here to :)
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 7:51 AM ]
Post subject: 
TormakSaber wrote:
Away with you, argument.


Sah, yes, sah!
Author:  Arcane9999 [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 9:46 AM ]
Post subject: 
In case it hasn't been changed yet, how about fixing Death Attack? Make it Cutscene Paralyze! I demand it!
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 17:49 PM ]
Post subject: 
Once again, away with you, argument.
Author:  Arcane9999 [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 18:02 PM ]
Post subject: 
TormakSaber wrote:
Once again, away with you, argument.


Why! Why, I ask you!!
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 18:02 PM ]
Post subject: 
Because these are all trhings already being worked on, but there are very vey few scripters, and with the exception of Disco, they are doubling as players.
Author:  Riddle [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 19:44 PM ]
Post subject: 
TormakSaber wrote:

dc 20 stun to your weapon


Is it stun on hit every hit or with 50%/dc20 etc?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 21:05 PM ]
Post subject: 
50%.
Author:  Really Evil Pigeon [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 21:15 PM ]
Post subject: 
Times we need Va to prove why Willsaves on hit suck.. (for the oppsition) someone get ruce back!
Author:  Herra Tutteri [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 21:31 PM ]
Post subject: 
Really Evil Pigeon wrote:
Times we need Va to prove why Willsaves on hit suck.. (for the oppsition) someone get ruce back!


Where is Ruce, by the way? It's like he simply vanished.
Author:  Riddle [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 21:33 PM ]
Post subject: 
Really Evil Pigeon wrote:
Times we need Va to prove why Willsaves on hit suck.. (for the oppsition) someone get ruce back!


It isnt rare to see people with will save that doesnt go anywhere near 20 :)
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 25 2010, 22:47 PM ]
Post subject: 
Herra Tutteri wrote:
Really Evil Pigeon wrote:
Times we need Va to prove why Willsaves on hit suck.. (for the oppsition) someone get ruce back!


Where is Ruce, by the way? It's like he simply vanished.


He went back to doing other things. He's fine.
Author:  slkNihilus [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 17:17 PM ]
Post subject: 
Question: since both divine might and shield can be used by clerics as well as pallys and BGs... how will the modifications affect them? As in, will a cleric have divine might/shield give them a bonus equal to their CLs?

And what about the cleric/[insert class here]/BG? How will the change affect them? Will they get those abilities for the class they have the most levels in or...?
Author:  IronAngel [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 17:20 PM ]
Post subject: 
Cleric+Paladin/Blackguard. They're all cumulative.
Author:  slkNihilus [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 17:23 PM ]
Post subject: 
Ah, that's pretty nifty. Thanks for the quick reply!
Author:  Mr Mago [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 17:32 PM ]
Post subject: 
IronAngel wrote:
Cleric+Paladin/Blackguard. They're all cumulative.


Only in regards to Divine Shield though, reasonably.
Author:  HellScourge [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 17:44 PM ]
Post subject: 
I noticed that the monk AC is not capped by class levels. Has this yet been implemented or is this a bug?
Author:  IronAngel [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 18:11 PM ]
Post subject: 
None of it is implemented yet, or I've missed it in the announcements.

Mr Mago wrote:
IronAngel wrote:
Cleric+Paladin/Blackguard. They're all cumulative.


Only in regards to Divine Shield though, reasonably.


Huh? Do you mean to say that Divine Might doesn't count all classes that get it?
Author:  Mr Mago [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 18:20 PM ]
Post subject: 
Divine Might will be capped as well?

I was more so getting at the fact that cleric levels shouldn't count towards the BG/Paladin saves cap.
Author:  IronAngel [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 19:15 PM ]
Post subject: 
Ah, right! I'm not sure about Divine Might; I assume it will get the same treatment.
Author:  Dwagin [ Thu, Mar 04 2010, 19:15 PM ]
Post subject: 
Mr Mago wrote:
I was more so getting at the fact that cleric levels shouldn't count towards the BG/Paladin saves cap.


It makes sense that BG/Pally + Cleric = Might/Shield cap.

Cleric gets no cha bonus so they shouldn't be additive.
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