AMIA ARCHIVE :: View topic - Unofficial Official Build and Build Advice Topic Discussion

It's fine as it is. Creating a whole forum for it would send the wrong message IMO, and beyond that we would just have a large number of threads the same people need to check, rather than just the one.

Yurell wrote:

This.

+ I hate the build topic. Or any official implementation which encourages powerbuilding.

Mr Mago wrote:

Yurell wrote:

This.

+ I hate the build topic. Or any official implementation which encourages powerbuilding.

This. It's not something we want to actively encourage, even if we don't actively discourage or ban it either.

I used to insist that character build is not important in a role play server, but then I realized that in role play servers with PvP a lot of people will use their knowledge of building characters to drive role play in the direction they want against players with no knowledge of building.

Not having build support for novice builders is like throwing them to the wolves. They may have solid role play and play the fearless paladin who refuses to stand down while the evildoers do what they want, but they will never win because the Banite is a cleric with a token monk level or some other class combination that makes no role play sense and the paladin just hit the Recommend button on every level. I've seen lone juggernaut builds wipe out groups of higher level PCs and control server role play on the basis of their build alone.

I'd actually like to see enforced single primary class builds. Characters could take one or two prestige classes, but only one primary class. Lots of primary class combinations make no role play sense anyway, like barbarian/fighter, rogue/wizard, or anything with monk levels.

Rogue/wizard makes no sense mechanically because both classes on their own are capable of faking the other class' abilities. Many wizard spells emulate rogue abilities (find traps, knock, invisibility, delayed blast fireball), and rogues can cast spells with the Use Magic Device skill if they really wanted to.

Rogue/wizard also makes no sense from a role play perspective. I can't see how a wizard would spend many years in a library over arcane texts and practicing spells and then join a thieves' guild to learn how to aim for the kidneys or spring a trap.

So many sweet combinations are just not viable in this optimized environment. I wish they were. I've been thinking a lot about exotic combinations that are just pure RP joy and then get deterred by the thought.. "But you won't be able to compete. Along comes a streamlined build and stomps you every single time." This kind of thinking sucks and I wish I didn't have it, but I do.

My inner Rogue/Sorcerer weeps.

Does this count as a beam attack?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYrBG6rNLZU&fmt=18

That would be nice, except.. why would you need Strength so high for a Dev Crit then?

I'm not surprised anymore either that Kir'nack got his ass whooped by a plain Ftr/Wiz, a combination you hardly ever see.

xordae wrote:

I'm not surprised anymore either that Kir'nack got his ass whooped by a plain Ftr/Wiz, a combination you hardly ever see.

Lies and slander! Kir'nack has never lost to Zanticor! If that's what you mean, it might have been Qax'thel. Kir gave his job to Qax in an emoted (staged) fight, never in PvP.

Now that I'm done defending my honor against filthy spellslingers, I agree: Amia is easy enough to let you build many interesting builds. AB isn't a problem in most of PvM or even in PvP against people who aren't AC-whores.

Author:	fireprooftroll [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 12:46 PM ]
Post subject:	Unofficial Official Build and Build Advice Topic Discussion
I've returned to Amia, and one thing I've immediately started to do is to research a new character, as well as thinking up a build. The problem is that using the search function on the build threads, which are all monstrously huge, is not only time consuming, but you have to weed through dozens, if not hundreds of posts that have nothing to do with builds, because it is located in the general forum. I would like to propose that the build thread be kicked off the General Discussion, and moved to a category of their own, because it improves efficiency, costs nothing, and generally makes using the forum and creating a new character a much easier experience than it currently is.

Author:	Craig deathwalker [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 13:15 PM ]
Post subject:
Creating a build topic is fine, there are far too many build posibitlies. It is far easier to simple state what you want and have the monkeys make it for you. When the topic reaches a certain limit, delete start over.

Author:	Yurell [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 13:22 PM ]
Post subject:
It's fine as it is. Creating a whole forum for it would send the wrong message IMO, and beyond that we would just have a large number of threads the same people need to check, rather than just the one.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 13:29 PM ]
Post subject:
Yurell wrote: It's fine as it is. Creating a whole forum for it would send the wrong message IMO, and beyond that we would just have a large number of threads the same people need to check, rather than just the one. This. + I hate the build topic. Or any official implementation which encourages powerbuilding.

Author:	xordae [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 13:31 PM ]
Post subject:
Do what everyone else does, make a post describing how you want your character to be and wait for input.

AMIA ARCHIVE https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/

Unofficial Official Build and Build Advice Topic Discussion https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44737	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Nekhy [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 13:46 PM ]
Post subject:
Mr Mago wrote: Yurell wrote: It's fine as it is. Creating a whole forum for it would send the wrong message IMO, and beyond that we would just have a large number of threads the same people need to check, rather than just the one. This. + I hate the build topic. Or any official implementation which encourages powerbuilding. This. It's not something we want to actively encourage, even if we don't actively discourage or ban it either.

Author:	Dev Disco [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 13:48 PM ]
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I tick option "No, I already hate it the way it is."

Author:	Selvec Darkon [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 13:51 PM ]
Post subject:
Nekhy wrote: Mr Mago wrote: Yurell wrote: It's fine as it is. Creating a whole forum for it would send the wrong message IMO, and beyond that we would just have a large number of threads the same people need to check, rather than just the one. This. + I hate the build topic. Or any official implementation which encourages powerbuilding. This. It's not something we want to actively encourage, even if we don't actively discourage or ban it either.

Author:	Bobo_Underhill [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 14:09 PM ]
Post subject:
I appreciate the way it is. Some people are really bad at building, and they should at least have a way to request a competent build, so they don't look back a few months later and use their quarterly rebuild 'cause they didn't bother to put any tumble ranks with their 11 rogue levels. If you'd like one, come up with a concept, then ask. The typical s of the thread don't mind repeating themselves if a build concept is lost to the previous pages.

Author:	MoshingChris [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 17:28 PM ]
Post subject:
The build thread is wrongly named anyway. You rarely get step by step builds, because of the long standing tradition of "Teaching a sentient to fish, and you'll feed him for a life time".

Author:	Grymia [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 19:07 PM ]
Post subject:
I ticked no, but would further expound like disco, I'm not fond of powerbuilding in the first place but have to acccept it as a nescessary evil.

Author:	Xaviera [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 19:16 PM ]
Post subject:
As it's essentially impossible to search the thread, unless you're a regular reader of it the build you're interested in may have been discussed on the previous page and you'd never know it. So long as those who offer advice dont get miffed if they have to repeat themselves, I see no reason not to leave it as is. You ask your question, read it for 2-3 days for replies, then ignore it again.

Author:	Acacia [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 19:49 PM ]
Post subject:
I used to insist that character build is not important in a role play server, but then I realized that in role play servers with PvP a lot of people will use their knowledge of building characters to drive role play in the direction they want against players with no knowledge of building. Not having build support for novice builders is like throwing them to the wolves. They may have solid role play and play the fearless paladin who refuses to stand down while the evildoers do what they want, but they will never win because the Banite is a cleric with a token monk level or some other class combination that makes no role play sense and the paladin just hit the Recommend button on every level. I've seen lone juggernaut builds wipe out groups of higher level PCs and control server role play on the basis of their build alone. I'd actually like to see enforced single primary class builds. Characters could take one or two prestige classes, but only one primary class. Lots of primary class combinations make no role play sense anyway, like barbarian/fighter, rogue/wizard, or anything with monk levels.

Author:	Grymia [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 20:01 PM ]
Post subject:
Acacia wrote: I used to insist that character build is not important in a role play server, but then I realized that in role play servers with PvP a lot of people will use their knowledge of building characters to drive role play in the direction they want against players with no knowledge of building. Not having build support for novice builders is like throwing them to the wolves. They may have solid role play and play the fearless paladin who refuses to stand down while the evildoers do what they want, but they will never win because the Banite is a cleric with a token monk level or some other class combination that makes no role play sense and the paladin just hit the Recommend button on every level. I've seen lone juggernaut builds wipe out groups of higher level PCs and control server role play on the basis of their build alone. I'd actually like to see enforced single primary class builds. Characters could take one or two prestige classes, but only one primary class. Lots of primary class combinations make no role play sense anyway, like barbarian/fighter, rogue/wizard, or anything with monk levels. ... I could debate this with you but to a point I agree on the limiting to some extent of Multiple primary classes. Althugh, Rogue Wizard? I fundamentally have t'take exception to this one making no roleplay sense, but with the Job system in place a lot of the things Rogue might in past have been used to represent could instead be replaced by taking certain jobs.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 1:09 AM ]
Post subject:
Yeah, Rogue/Wizard is like practically the most classic multiclass ever. along with fighter/wizard and fighter/rogue.

Author:	Sakkran [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 1:12 AM ]
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Not to mention that sneak-attacking someone with a ray spell is totally epic. Or Shocking Grasp. I'm just not sure if NWN supports such an attack- ie, Sneak Attack + Negative Energy Ray.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 1:18 AM ]
Post subject:
It doesn't, which is a damn shame.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 2:23 AM ]
Post subject:
Devastating Critical: Ray

Author:	Acacia [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 20:16 PM ]
Post subject:
Rogue/wizard makes no sense mechanically because both classes on their own are capable of faking the other class' abilities. Many wizard spells emulate rogue abilities (find traps, knock, invisibility, delayed blast fireball), and rogues can cast spells with the Use Magic Device skill if they really wanted to. Rogue/wizard also makes no sense from a role play perspective. I can't see how a wizard would spend many years in a library over arcane texts and practicing spells and then join a thieves' guild to learn how to aim for the kidneys or spring a trap.

Author:	Nekhy [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 20:21 PM ]
Post subject:
I must confess, that I am another pure class fetishist. But I guess those dreams are as futile as the permadeath dreams...

Author:	Grymia [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 20:22 PM ]
Post subject:
Acacia wrote: Rogue/wizard makes no sense mechanically because both classes on their own are capable of faking the other class' abilities. Many wizard spells emulate rogue abilities (find traps, knock, invisibility, delayed blast fireball), and rogues can cast spells with the Use Magic Device skill if they really wanted to. Rogue/wizard also makes no sense from a role play perspective. I can't see how a wizard would spend many years in a library over arcane texts and practicing spells and then join a thieves' guild to learn how to aim for the kidneys or spring a trap. ... You don't need to join a Thieves guild to learn to aim for the kidneys or spring a trap. I imagine, in many cases there are legitimate trapsmiths who could teach both how to arm, and disarm traps. A little beyond the box thinking and you can find alternative sources for many of the Rogue skills. If they had EXPERT in addition to Rogue somehow implemented, you'd be harder pressed.

Author:	IronAngel [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 21:14 PM ]
Post subject:
Pure-classed are abominable! The more imaginative combos, the better, I say! I don't like the build topic, I'd rather have a forum for it. But I guess it's a PR thing, which is understandable if I don't quite agree with it.

Author:	Jyro X [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 21:35 PM ]
Post subject:
I'm a huge advocate of making a build make RP sense. I really don't like it when someone makes a Monk/Cleric/SD or something and not RP their cleric or monk levels or even their SD levels. It's definitely odd when there's an elf running around HiPS'g with a huge flaming battle axe (that will obviously not allow you to hide in the shadows given its a huge source of flaming light). Powerbuilders are always going to be a blight to good roleplay on Amia and we just have to get used to it. I try not to base my builds on PvP as I generally don't have much care for PvP or love for it at all. However, I'm not going to make myself a walking target for powerbuilders with something to prove. I generally base my builds on an idea I have and try to make it as effective as possible while staying within the boundaries, usually with the help of the build topic. A lot of powerbuilders just don't care if it makes RP sense or not though (such as druid/shifter CoT's - what the eff); that I've noticed.

Author:	xordae [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 21:36 PM ]
Post subject:
So many sweet combinations are just not viable in this optimized environment. I wish they were. I've been thinking a lot about exotic combinations that are just pure RP joy and then get deterred by the thought.. "But you won't be able to compete. Along comes a streamlined build and stomps you every single time." This kind of thinking sucks and I wish I didn't have it, but I do.

Author:	Nekhy [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 21:40 PM ]
Post subject:
xordae wrote: So many sweet combinations are just not viable in this optimized environment. I wish they were. I've been thinking a lot about exotic combinations that are just pure RP joy and then get deterred by the thought.. "But you won't be able to compete. Along comes a streamlined build and stomps you every single time." This kind of thinking sucks and I wish I didn't have it, but I do. I do that a lot, then I end up dieing all the time and lose interest in the character because it sucks. Or rebuild into something less gimped. Ahh, that Wizard/Fighter/WM with whirlwind attack I had... such a pity it doesn't work.

Author:	hendrack [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 22:17 PM ]
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People worry too much about PvP, most of my chars are geared for PvM and except my Osiris cleric don't have any position of authority that gets them much into such situations. Instead of making a build topic I've pondered for some time to create a topic that helps new players to NWN learn basics of the game, how to level without dieing all the time (not to confuse with a powerlevel guide) and to grasp a basic feeling of where to go with that kind of party and available buffs. Much of exploring this is the fun aspect of the game I suppose, but then again I cringe a lot when I see players that seem rather helpless with mechanics and so on, which is the little powerlevel devil in me. Didn't look into the journal for some time and saw Disco added some rough guides what starter quests are available, which is rather nice.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 22:20 PM ]
Post subject:
It's not being changed, for the nth time. We offer a service. Use it or don't. People complain that 'other epople' powerbuilds. Well, get some help in the topic then if you feel you have to be part of an arms race.

Author:	ainjyll [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 22:56 PM ]
Post subject:
I think it should be left alone. In the years I've been on Amia, I've taught myself how to build characters and have gotten to the point where I can make a build that stands up pretty well to whatever gets thrown at it. It's really not all that hard to make a competent character if you just sit back and toy around with the concept in a character creation module.

Author:	MoshingChris [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 23:30 PM ]
Post subject:
The poll and further discussion in this thread is pointless, the only people who matter in this case are those who offer the advice and having a Forum for build browsing means i stop building for people other than those on my MSN (much like Mago does now). My Reason: Cookie cutter builds. They hurt servers.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Mon, Jan 25 2010, 23:57 PM ]
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Yes, it's bad enough scimitar and rapier get to reign on top.

Author:	Selvec Darkon [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 0:59 AM ]
Post subject:
Acacia wrote: Rogue/wizard makes no sense mechanically because both classes on their own are capable of faking the other class' abilities. Many wizard spells emulate rogue abilities (find traps, knock, invisibility, delayed blast fireball), and rogues can cast spells with the Use Magic Device skill if they really wanted to. Rogue/wizard also makes no sense from a role play perspective. I can't see how a wizard would spend many years in a library over arcane texts and practicing spells and then join a thieves' guild to learn how to aim for the kidneys or spring a trap. Rogue/Wizard makes perfect sense mechanically as there is no Arcane Trickster class in NWN. Rogue/Wizard is an old traditional multi-class. Suplimenting roguish abilities with magical ones. Dispite general opinion, hide/ms rogues aren't the only type of rogues in the world.

Author:	Sakkran [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 1:19 AM ]
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My inner Rogue/Sorcerer weeps.

Author:	Selvec Darkon [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 2:15 AM ]
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Sakkran wrote: My inner Rogue/Sorcerer weeps. Rogue/Wizard/Asassain is a lovely traditional build that works very much on the ways you suggested. So yes, weeping in great streams.

Author:	Grymia [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 2:24 AM ]
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That would be nice, except.. why would you need Strength so high for a Dev Crit then?

Author:	GreatPigeon [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 2:33 AM ]
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Yet another post that might as well say... You should play the way I do

Author:	Dwagin [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 2:49 AM ]
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Fffsaa

Author:	Dark Immolation [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 3:04 AM ]
Post subject:
Dwagin wrote: Does this count as a beam attack? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYrBG6rNLZU&fmt=18 Nope. But it does count as Devastating Critical: Classic Overdone Anime-ish Super-Special Move.

Author:	Selvec Darkon [ Tue, Jan 26 2010, 9:27 AM ]
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Dwagin wrote: Does this count as a beam attack? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYrBG6rNLZU&fmt=18 How does the moon come back every time he's summoned? Grymia wrote: That would be nice, except.. why would you need Strength so high for a Dev Crit then? Well fighter/wizard. Fighter stabs orc A, orc B charges his flank, he dev crits a beam attack right in the buggers face. Booya! xD. DnD Saiyan build <_<