AMIA ARCHIVE :: View topic - druid/ranger pets

By the way, lots of other classes summons die in PVM/get banished, especially in epic levels.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

By the way, lots of other classes summons die in PVM/get banished, especially in epic levels.

Lot's of other classes can protect their summons from dismissal. Rangers can't.

It's their only summons. It's their pre epic summons. It's their Epic Summons. They pick carefully because you only get one.

If it gets dismissed, what does the Ranger do? Die perhaps?

If a cleric or wizards or sorcerers summons die they simply cast again from a massive spellbook the next round. Summons are disposable for those classes.

It's not the same so don't make the comparison.

Doesn't really matter. 55+ AB on any summon can't ever be justified.

I understand one of the Blackguard summons is quite obscene.

Doesn't really matter. 55+ AB on any summon can't ever be justified.

It's really a matter of someone just getting around to presenting actual suggestions, I imagine. We don't have Ruce to balance them according to the recently revamped summons, so it doesn't get done due to practical reasons. I doubt many people on the staff think it's all peachy as is.

That said, I do think the Druid/Ranger companions should be the best you can get. It's sort of their thing.

Which one is the DD summon?

And no, 55+ AB is never justified on a summon. In fact, 50+ AB is never justified on a summon. 45+ AB is pushing it, even.

If they are glass cannons, they need to be compensated properly by balancing that aspect, rather than allow an AB which 98% of the builds on Amia won't ever get close to.

*edit edit*

No he didn't <.<

Mr Mago wrote:

I'm actuually doubting a Ranger getting those numbers from anything but ferocity and I think a Druid with those numbers is alright given Druids are so far down the build ladder its not funny.

Thats just me though.

DD = Death Domain.

War + Death Domain = the meanest summon Amia if Good Neutral.

Due to the obscene scythe throwing out 250 criticals and such, the fact that the summon can be vestmented, has a high natural AC anyway.

Uce nerfed it twice at me and hends suggestion (it used to have 50 discipline again top that off with a Bard)

The summon is crit and sneak immune, immune to paralysis, immune to negative effects et al. Its basically a Palemaster with a Cannon attached to its arm.

It's amazing how everything turns into a balance discussion... :roll:

Companions str vs weakness summed up: They hit hard, and they die easier than kittens, and can be unsummoned by any char with 10 UMD and one of those pesky dismissal scrolls.

I wouldnt mind if the AB and dmg was lowered if their durability went up, and they did not get dismissed by those silly spells.

Add also that companions and BOE is the only strenghts a Ranger has (aside from being an awesome class to RP that is). Any of its others nice things can be gained by other classes.

Author:	oshizo2 [ Wed, Dec 23 2009, 18:05 PM ]
Post subject:	druid/ranger pets
okay i have been reading around here and i've seen that boar,bear,direwolf are very good. What about the other pets at higer levels are they useless or just not as strong as the other three? could someone give the goods on the other pets? dire rat? eagle? wolf? spider? that ferret thing? wassup with those at the epic/higher levels?

Author:	HellScourge [ Wed, Dec 23 2009, 19:46 PM ]
Post subject:
The wolf might be an alternate choice for some, buts its really quite weak, but the rest is rather lacking from what I saw. They'd be mostly be RP choices as best. They do need some buffing up, as to make them as good as the rest, or at least their abilities should be made a bit better.

Author:	Dramatic_Prince [ Wed, Dec 23 2009, 19:55 PM ]
Post subject:
Best DPS=Boar Best AB=Bear If your druid/ranger is a tank type, you might want to take panther for 10d6 sneaks.

Author:	BloodNAshes [ Wed, Dec 23 2009, 20:57 PM ]
Post subject:
According the wiki, the animal companions basic stuff increases as follows: Badger: Con from 11 to 19, increased used of rage Wolf: Dex from 12 to 31, increased uses of fear howl Brown Bear: Str from 16 to 35 Hawk: No stat boosts or special ability (except Disarm feat) Boar: Str from 13 to 32, increased uses of ferocity Panther: Dex from 19 to 25, sneak and uncanny dodge up to 20 level rogue Giant Spider: No stat boost, venom bite but no DC increase, more webs but CL capped at 15 Dire Wolf: Dex from 15 to 34 Dire Rat: Dex from 17 to 22, 1d6 sneak, disease bite DC does not increase (bugged) So...the first thing to do is give some stat boosts to the pets with no boost, like the Hawk and the Giant Spider. The ones with very small boosts, like the Badger, Dire Rat, and Panther should have theirs increased a tad (but not as much as Boar/Bear/Dire Wolf unless these are given something else as well). The ones with special attacks that don't go up, like the spiders lack of DC increase to Venom and Web and the dire rat's sneak attack and disease bite (which was supposed to go up anyway according to Bioware's intention) need to be fixed. The cap on the sneak/uncanny dodge on the panther at 20 should probably go too. The hawk needs to be given Improved Disarm too and maybe something similar as well.

Author:	QPR [ Wed, Dec 23 2009, 21:04 PM ]
Post subject:
I could easily see the Hawk being an AC-power house. Its a bird after all, should be quite hard to hit by anyone.

AMIA ARCHIVE https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/

druid/ranger pets https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43894	Page 1 of 4

Author:	Gunz [ Wed, Dec 23 2009, 22:14 PM ]
Post subject:
To me, the best companions are: Brown Bear Boar Dire Wolf Panther In that order. But of course, it depends on what type of character your developing to determine which companion is best suited to you, both RP wise and build wise. I wouldn't pass up the other weaker ones if my characters RP really gravitated toward one of them. My Ranger had the regular wolf. It's not the best, but it's alright. The important part, for me, is that it fit his RP.

Author:	Yurell [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 1:37 AM ]
Post subject:
I think that the other companions need a bit of love ... I still remember my druid and avoiding all the main choices, only to find out what I had chosen was pretty basic in comparison.

Author:	GreatPigeon [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 9:28 AM ]
Post subject:
The Boar actually does more damage then the Bear... This is because the boar has only 1 weapon and the bear has multiple.. Magic Fang adn the berry thing and scrolls hence works on all the boars attacks but not on the bears.

Author:	Blackdragon12121 [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 11:56 AM ]
Post subject:
The Brown Bear, Boar, Dire Wolf and Panther need to be brought down so they are more level with the other animal companions not the other way round. Some improvements should also be given to the lesser used companions, particularly the hawk and rat and spider so the animal companions all meet at the middle in terms of power (obviously some would be better in certain situations than others). If it were upto me, the wolfs fear howl would be changed to a bane effect (DC needs to go up with levels too).

Author:	maglorine [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 13:45 PM ]
Post subject:
I disagree. The other companions should be brought up a bit to make them more appealing. My ranger has the Boar and still dies in PVM all the time. Even in full parties in appropriate CR areas. How's the badger? I haven't tried him but I'd love to use that little fella.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 13:46 PM ]
Post subject:
Doesn't the Brown Bear get like... 50+ AB?

Author:	GreatPigeon [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 13:59 PM ]
Post subject:
level 25 ranger using only a bulls pot and my own buffs can get the boar with 55ab

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 14:13 PM ]
Post subject:
55 AB is insane.

Author:	maglorine [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 14:38 PM ]
Post subject:
Blackdragon12121 wrote: By the way, lots of other classes summons die in PVM/get banished, especially in epic levels. Lot's of other classes can protect their summons from dismissal. Rangers can't. It's their only summons. It's their pre epic summons. It's their Epic Summons. They pick carefully because you only get one. If it gets dismissed, what does the Ranger do? Die perhaps? If a cleric or wizards or sorcerers summons die they simply cast again from a massive spellbook the next round. Summons are disposable for those classes. It's not the same so don't make the comparison.

Author:	MoshingChris [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:50 PM ]
Post subject:
Mr Mago wrote: Doesn't really matter. 55+ AB on any summon can't ever be justified. It can. Those companions are glass cannons. And if you nerf them then you -need- to nerf the pseudodragon and eyeball since the former can kill 90 percent of Amias SD's (given an SD's face tanking damage with full Hide/MS is somewhat akin to a wet tissue) and the latter since it can KD nearly evry epic boss with that stupid Ray. Oh and given that you know, div might/shields being scaled back the build potential of old ranger and barbarian is going to cop a hefty whack. Ranger is great against fav. enemies, exceptional w/ the Boar, sucks against everything else. A fighter/wm will 9 times out of 10 beat a Ranger to death very quickly. Oh and if you want a real comparison. Good/Neutral DD summon. 52 AB 60+ AC (gotten it to 70~ with a wizard and a bard in party) How long have i been calling for a nerf to those and not been answered?

Author:	MoshingChris [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 16:46 PM ]
Post subject:
Bane of Enemies is the defining feature of the Ranger. 25 4 1 Ranger is the best of the stick DPS versus fav. enemies you will ever find where 4 is fighter/paladin/cleric. I have to say though that Amia seemed to be, prior to the current balancing, balanced towards Summon Soloing. Which was absolutely retarded. I -do- not think the AB is to high, I do think its way to high if the Dev and DM team are pushing for a more Hardcore feel and party server. edit: Cursed drink why must you mock me.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 14:51 PM ]
Post subject:
Rangers don't have to die just because they lost their summon.

Author:	maglorine [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:30 PM ]
Post subject:
Please name the other base classes that get one summon per rest period and cannot protect them from dismissal.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:35 PM ]
Post subject:
Shadowdancer, Blackguard Well, you did say please.

Author:	-Cloak-and-Dagger- [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:39 PM ]
Post subject:
He also said base.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:40 PM ]
Post subject:
edit edit No he didn't <.<

Author:	Dramatic_Prince [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:41 PM ]
Post subject:
I understand one of the Blackguard summons is quite obscene.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:42 PM ]
Post subject:
Doesn't really matter. 55+ AB on any summon can't ever be justified.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:44 PM ]
Post subject:
Dramatic_Prince wrote: I understand one of the Blackguard summons is quite obscene. Yup. That one needs to be revised as well.

Author:	IronAngel [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:46 PM ]
Post subject:
It's really a matter of someone just getting around to presenting actual suggestions, I imagine. We don't have Ruce to balance them according to the recently revamped summons, so it doesn't get done due to practical reasons. I doubt many people on the staff think it's all peachy as is. That said, I do think the Druid/Ranger companions should be the best you can get. It's sort of their thing.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 15:54 PM ]
Post subject:
Which one is the DD summon? And no, 55+ AB is never justified on a summon. In fact, 50+ AB is never justified on a summon. 45+ AB is pushing it, even. If they are glass cannons, they need to be compensated properly by balancing that aspect, rather than allow an AB which 98% of the builds on Amia won't ever get close to.

Author:	maglorine [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 16:35 PM ]
Post subject:
TormakSaber wrote: edit edit No he didn't <.< Yeah I did and for a reason. It's a base class not a prestige class thing. That should count for something. Tormie changed it I presume because there aren't any base classes with no way to protect their summons from dismissal. Besides that it's the one class where you can only summon it once per rest period. I don't count druids because they get other summons and can protect all of them to an extent. The more pure druid they are the better they are at protecting them from this. Ranger not at all. I'm hearing alot of statements in this thread. Not suggestions, arguments, debates. It's "X" is too high, kill it! That's easy. Moshing is right, they are glass cannons. You don't want that? Suggest something, don't say "Kill the cannon and leave only the glass". You want to trade some AB for more Durability or resistances to Dismissal or whatever? Speak up. This is THE defining feature of the Ranger Class.

Author:	ainjyll [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 16:48 PM ]
Post subject:
One of the only really attractive features to an epic ranger is it's Companion. I don't think any of them should be nerfed, if anything the other Companions should get a boost to be on par with the bear.

Author:	maglorine [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 18:18 PM ]
Post subject:
Moshing, Well, it depends on how you define class feature I guess. I see Bane as a selectable feat and not a class feature. You have to choose it, it's not automatically granted by the class (kinda like Epic Dodge vs Sneak dice for Rogues). Secondly I think of defining as in - how would it be if everything else were the same but you removed "x"? I'd say the impact of removing the companion would be more dramatic than removing Bane both from a mechanical/power and RP standpoint. That's just how I judge it's importance, not saying it's the only way of course. Dramatic - yes Ranger has it's drawbacks like all other classes, I can make a nice list, which is all fine and well. The companion is one of it's balancing strengths of course, that's the point I'm making. Even the companion itself has it's strengths and weaknesses. Some in this thread are focusing on it's strengths and not adequately considering it's weaknesses. It's all part of the package and should be judged as such IMO. Not looking at a specific feature in isolation.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 20:25 PM ]
Post subject:
MoshingChris wrote: Mr Mago wrote: Which one is the DD summon? And no, 55+ AB is never justified on a summon. In fact, 50+ AB is never justified on a summon. 45+ AB is pushing it, even. If they are glass cannons, they need to be compensated properly by balancing that aspect, rather than allow an AB which 98% of the builds on Amia won't ever get close to. I'm actuually doubting a Ranger getting those numbers from anything but ferocity and I think a Druid with those numbers is alright given Druids are so far down the build ladder its not funny. Thats just me though. DD = Death Domain. War + Death Domain = the meanest summon Amia if Good Neutral. Due to the obscene scythe throwing out 250 criticals and such, the fact that the summon can be vestmented, has a high natural AC anyway. Uce nerfed it twice at me and hends suggestion (it used to have 50 discipline again top that off with a Bard) The summon is crit and sneak immune, immune to paralysis, immune to negative effects et al. Its basically a Palemaster with a Cannon attached to its arm. Then I join your ranks, and ask for a nerf to the DD.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 20:30 PM ]
Post subject:
For the past year, I've made numerous powerbuilds with the use of ranger in them. And I honestly didn't consider the companion -at all- in any of these builds, yet they were still so appealing that I've dreaded the fact that I have yet to make one of them. Add the companion with 55 AB to it, and you're looking at something that causes me to shiver in the very core of my spine. I'll come up with a more specific suggestion once I get a more proper understanding of what exactly the current companions have, and when they get it. You'll most likely be looking at a complete overhaul of -all- the companions (to address the valid concerns of the OT as well), rather than just nerfing AB on those who peak above 50 atm.

Author:	Gunz [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 20:37 PM ]
Post subject:
It's amazing how everything turns into a nerf discussion...

Author:	QPR [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 20:39 PM ]
Post subject:
Companions str vs weakness summed up: They hit hard, and they die easier than kittens, and can be unsummoned by any char with 10 UMD and one of those pesky dismissal scrolls. I wouldnt mind if the AB and dmg was lowered if their durability went up, and they did not get dismissed by those silly spells. Add also that companions and BOE is the only strenghts a Ranger has (aside from being an awesome class to RP that is). Any of its others nice things can be gained by other classes.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 20:51 PM ]
Post subject:
o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: It's amazing how everything turns into a balance discussion... Fixed.

Author:	Mr Mago [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 20:53 PM ]
Post subject:
QPR wrote: Companions str vs weakness summed up: They hit hard, and they die easier than kittens, and can be unsummoned by any char with 10 UMD and one of those pesky dismissal scrolls. I wouldnt mind if the AB and dmg was lowered if their durability went up, and they did not get dismissed by those silly spells. Add also that companions and BOE is the only strenghts a Ranger has (aside from being an awesome class to RP that is). Any of its others nice things can be gained by other classes. Favoured enemies can be taken as bonus feats. Hide, MS, Set Trap skill. Dual-wielding. Ranger spells. Full BAB progression. Rangers aren't as shitty as some people have managed to portray them to be.

Author:	QPR [ Thu, Dec 24 2009, 21:00 PM ]
Post subject:
Well, Ranger spells are vastly inferior to any other class with spellcasting abilities. Even Blackguards. The change to Blade Thirst is very velcome, and helps alot, but aside from that one, camouflage, One with the Land and Freedo of Movement are the only spells thats worth the points in wisdom. All the other skills are easy gained by skills dumps as rogue, BAB from fighter etc. Theese are not defining points, only a nice little extras. Rangers are by no means useless without the Amia changes, but rather inferior in most respects without them. If they were changed to reflect the 3.5 rules however, then its a different matter entirely.