AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Parry- how does it work?

I've been trying to build a parrying fighter character, however I'm not entirely sure how parry currently functions in game...

Just for clarification:
What are the conditions for a counter attack, also, what are the conditions that the counter attack hits?

Try this link. Someone else may be able to expand on these points.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Parry

the internets hold many answers. I always take a look here before asking questions.

Here's the easy bit; Parry is broken first of all.

If you have 1 attack. You get 1 parry.

If you have 2 attacks. You get 1 parry. You loose your other attack as no action taken.

If you have 3 attacks. You make 1 parry. You loose one attack (2nd). You make 1 parry. Total you have done 2 parries and you loose your other attack as no action.

If you have 4 attacks. You make 1 parry. You loose one attack (2nd). You make 1 parry. You loose one attack (4rth). Total you have done 2 parries and you loose your other 2 attacks at no action.

If you have 5 attacks, you parry on 1/3/5 and loose 2/4 as nothing.

...so on.

Then the "counter-attack" or "riposte" as it is called looses on the AB as well.

Making up numbers: A PC with 5 attacks say has:

AB: 20/17/14/11/8 [[no idea if this is real or not]]

You parry on 20, 14, 8 AB
You lost 17, 11 AB rolls to doing nothing

You attempt to counter-attack "riposte" on 20AB, then on 17AB, and then on 8AB.
Which is broken because you're supposed to get 20AB for all "ripostes", yet do not.

It may be more viable to go with Expertise and Improved Expertise so that you:
1) Don't loose any attacks
2) Boost your AC to represent protecting yourself
3) You drop your AB; but still use your full flurry
4) Isn't limited to just the target you are facing (Is my impression)

Sounds like the best way to make parry work is to build a character who focuses completely on getting the highest damage possible on first attack.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Sounds like the best way to make parry work is to build a character who focuses completely on getting the highest damage possible on first attack.

When you're being hit by 2-5 mobs per spawn...

Parry = worthless

When you're facing a mob 1v1

Parry = Maybe Useful

If HAK's are introduced that could be fixed. *nod nod*

Selvec Darkon wrote:

If HAK's are introduced that could be fixed. *nod nod*

Actually they want to avoid Feat Haks for the balancing nightmare.

Don't plan on that until you see it happen.

idk about the above explanation, but I do know that you can only parry once per flurry, which lasts 2 seconds. So essentially 3 parries per round, even if you have a bajillion attacks/round.

Torzeng wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

If HAK's are introduced that could be fixed. *nod nod*

Actually they want to avoid Feat Haks for the balancing nightmare.

Don't plan on that until you see it happen.

Fair enough.

this doesn't matter much, but what if you use two weapons or two-sided weapon? how does it work then? just would like to know

I've heard parry is only good on a dev-critting bard. Never tried, though.

blackvswhite wrote:

idk about the above explanation, but I do know that you can only parry once per flurry, which lasts 2 seconds. So essentially 3 parries per round, even if you have a bajillion attacks/round.

expounding on this, a couple examples are needed to fully explain this.

nwn rounds are split up into units called flurries. there are 3 flurries in one round. lets say an enemy monk character has 5 attacks per round with an AB of 18/15/12/9/6. Over the course of the round, the game engine will split the attacks up as evenly among the flurries as it can. flurry 1 gets 18 and 15, flurry 2 gets 12 and 9, and flurry 3 gets the last attack of 6.

You yourself have an AB of 20/17/14/11/8. the 20 and 17 attacks would be executed during the first flurry, 14 and 11 during the second, and 8 during the third.

You turn parrying on. The description saying you get a number of parries equal to the number of your attacks is wrong. What you actually get is 1 parry per flurry. So during flurry 1 the enemy monk attacks with his 18 and 15. You get to parry the first one only (1 parry allowed per flurry) the 15 will never get parried. You make the parry roll, and you roll enough to riposte. Your riposte is calculated with the first AB you have in that flurry, so you would riposte with 20. Your second attack in that flurry is lost, you cant attack while in parry mode, and you can only parry once per flurry, so you lose the 17.

Flurry 2 comes around, enemy monk attacks with 12 and 9. You can riposte the 12 with your 14 if your parry roll is high enough. 9 can never be parried (1 parry allowed per flurry), and you lose your 11 (cant attack in parry mode)

you should be able to see how things work to figure out how flurry 3 goes

edit: just to clarify, it doesnt matter where the attacks come from (monk BAB progression, two wep fighting) the game engine always splits the attacks up this way among flurries, and parry only works against the first attack in each flurry. So if you had two wep fighting, giving you an attack scale of 20/15/10/5/20 attacks 20 and 15 happen during the first flurry, 10 and 5 during the second flurry, and 20 during the third flurry

edit edit: the limitation on number of parries per round is why parry fails against multiple enemies. If you are facing 2 of those monks from the example above, then in flurry 1 you are facing 4 attacks (2 from each). You still only parry 1 of them, the other 3 attacks get through

Kjetta wrote:

I've heard parry is only good on a dev-critting bard. Never tried, though.

a character that ends up with only 3 attacks doesnt lose any attacks while parrying. So a bard with 3 attacks per round is basically getting a chance to negate 3 of their enemies attacks for free. And its much easier to increase a skill roll than AB, allowing near certainty of ripostes. Against a standard dev crit fighter with 4 attacks, this bard would negate 3 of the attacks, and then get to make 3 attacks in return. Odds are, in a battle of 20s the bard will win, they get 3 attacks per round and the fighter is effectively getting only 1.

hcl wrote:

this doesn't matter much, but what if you use two weapons or two-sided weapon? how does it work then? just would like to know

Weilding 2 weapons won't up your Parry at all.

If you have 3 attacks between 2 weapons, you still only get 2 parries.
If you have 4 attacks between 2 weapons, you still only get 2 parries.
If you have 5 attacks between 2 weapons, you still only get 3 parries.

Parry in its current form isn't broken, it was fixed... even if the description of the skill doesn't match its effects.

It's still possible to make nasty stuff with Parry.

The problem is that many of those who wish to make use of parry, seem to think that they should be able to parry 15 monsters at the same time.

The skill works in 1 vs 1 only, pretty much.

A parrying duelist bard with dev-crit, ala Tim Roth's character in Rob Roy, sounds like the most badass character ever. Someone do it!

I have tried parry with two different characters:

I have one pure ranger, now level 29, that is based on dexterity and use a two bladed sword to parry with.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19126

Beside that, I have a level 19 ranger/rogue/assassin that also is a two hander dexbased parrying character.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=91773

My experience with parry in Amia is extensive and I must admit that it is a quite useful skill up to say level 20. In epic levels, you'll be doomed if you use parry, but at the lower levels, it makes it possible for a non meatshield to stand in the front and let archers and rogues attack behind him and take out the enemies. It is also one of few ways to solo areas with sneak attacking enemies 'cause parry actually works against them too. Being a ranger with a panther animal friend is optimal since the ranger stall the enemy and the panther sneak them down. If you have a rogue/assassin, don't use weapons that stun on hit (like the gladiator club) 'cause you'll just stop attacking when the enemy get stunned and the parry wont kick in by itself when the stun is gone. You need to re-click on the enemy and you won't get any sneak attacks while in parry mode if the enemy is doing nothing.

Parry is not a skill you put a couple of points in now and then though. It is all or nothing. Max it out and take improved parry to make it even more useful, or don't use it at all. Few items add to the parry skill, so the mythal forge is your best friend if you want to max it out. A point to remember:

The difficulty class is the modified attack roll of the incoming blow. A successful parry means that the attack does not damage the parrying character. I.e. if the attacker got a modified dice roll of "30" and you're a level 10 dex based character, you have for instance:
Parry = 13, dex 30 (18 + 12)= +10, items for say +6 = parry 29 + dice roll 1D20. If you have improved parry, you add +4 extra to the roll. You'll be virtually impossibe to hit when enemies don't have that many attacks against you. And if you don't parry the incoming attack, the attack still need to overcome your AC to actually hurt you. A riposte is only made after a successful parry attempt, that's why you need to have as high parry skill as possible.

Imagine if each and every attack actually could be parried, then a dexterity based character would be the most awesome meatshiled in game, impossible to hurt by anything in melee. I don't say that parry is a broken skill, it is a nice and balanced skill if used in the right way and against few enemies that don't use bows. You are actually parrying all attacks at low levels, 50% of the attacks higher up and 33% at epic levels.

What if you combine epic dodge and parry?

I think Epic Dodge would only increase the frustration of the one parrying. You don't actually get to parry anything unless your attacker can hit you.

But Epic Dodge allows you to not get hit with the first attack (that hits) that isn't parried.

I have a dex based Fighter fencer. He uses parry and he's more of a roleplayed character.

YES, parry doesnt work against those fifteen monsters. Thats what expertise and epic dodge are for.

YES, parry works splendidly against 1v1 but (Duh) only against melee.

My biggest problem will be mages, cause I wont be able to... well.. fight them? But with Improved Parry, Epic gloves, Parry Skill Bonus, Epic Parry skill bonus- Can ya hit me with melee 1v1?

I fence in real life, and the idea of making a fencing character was too appealing to me, so I did. I modeled him after Cyrano de Bergerac, making him the swashbuckling gentleman, and its been fun so far.

I would love to see another fencer/parry master out there. Epic duels!

My final word: Parry is situational. You gotta know when to use it, and you have to realize that you're going to be limiting yourself to your enemies. You cannot effectively pounce mages, but against most fighters, you'll be solid. (Of course, I wouldnt know how you would win.. but..)

You wanna make a BA powertanking sunuva B that's gonna take out anything that moves?

Don't make a parry master.

You wanna make a toon that will be irritating as hell in one on one pvp's, and possibly make me love you for all time?

Make a parrying bard.

....And make him play the harmonica, and have a new orleans street accent.

Cyrano de Bergerac is cooler than Gambit in my book. Though Gambit would undoubtedly win if it came to blows. :lol:

To answer the OP's question in my own words. How does Parry work?

Short Answer:
It doesn't.

Full Answer:
It doesn't unless you build for it.

Anything Dex-based that gets good AC works as a good foundation. Bard is such a class. As well is Dex-puremonk, mine whom with Empty Body, Epic Parry rank, and 60's AC has seriously had people just plain get tired of fighting him and give up. :twisted:

Edit: Oh, and Circle Kick works in Parry Mode as well. It's like the one situation it's not a total hinderance. Tanking a mob, you effectively get 2 reposites for one parry, once a round.

Parry- how does it work?

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