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Area owning for hunting verses RP
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41776		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Godo [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 14:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Area owning for hunting verses RP
First off I want to say I am really enjoying myself here on Amia, all I see here are great RPers creating a fantastic world. That being said there is one aspect that does disturb me some, this OOC owning of areas while hunting there. Several times now I have been told in tells to leave the area because they was there first, I was also told that this is a rule of Amia but I have not yet been able to find this rule in the Rules and Lore forum.

I do indeed go hunting for exp like everyone else but am more interested in the RP. Whenever I see someone else around the exp gathering then takes the back seat, the encounter RP is more important to me. If I am killing spiders and you comes into the area please do not leave the area just because I am there and you think you have to let me hunt because I was there first. I would much rather stop killing the mobs and do some great RP with you, even if it is just something as simple as you trying to intimidate or chase the Goblin away, or even scoff at him while you go about and kill whatever is in that area for IC reasons. Even if its OOC to gain exp there can also be a IC reason as well.

When you start to chase people out of the area in a OOC manner just because you was there first and want all the exp diminishes RP, it places the exp above all else and frankly that is not good for a RP server. If Godo comes across any of you when your hunting my main purpose at that point is to RP it out in the manner my character would do, stalking you perhaps, trying to separate one of the party from the group so he can rob them, harass and cause some chaos with the group as he then runs and hides, ect ect. I may indeed still kill a few of the mobs there when they spawn because there is little choice in that but that will not be my main focus at that time.

I sure hope that this is not truly a server rule but perhaps just a guidline for courtesy, please do not allow exp hunting become more important the RP opportunities.
Author:  IronAngel [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 14:21 PM ]
Post subject: 
It is a rule: you cannot take over another player's hunting grounds and force them to leave. This is to protect players from wanton griefing. Imagine somebody doesn't like you, or just wants to get to a boss for the loot, and stomps through your RPing hunting party to get there first. This someone is of course higher level and a PvP-geared build, so you don't even stand a chance. This isn't fun, and we need rules to prevent it.

But yes: I acknowledge your concerns, and they are grave indeed. It certainly shouldn't be viewed as "You don't have to RP on hunts" or "You can tell others OOC to leave you alone." Not at all. They have no right to tell you to get out OOC and not start RP, "because they're hunting." It simply means you can't steal their grounds by force. Too often, the protection the rule offers is abused and hunting is treated as an OOC sport.

It's the lesser of two evils we've had to pick. Whether it's actually the lesser one is open to debate, but it's worked for us so far.
Author:  Herr Delta Houdini [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 14:22 PM ]
Post subject: 
EdIt: Iron got it before me, heh. :P

It's actually a Rule that you can't pass someone who is hunting in an area, or steal kills on the spawn without permission.

If you're just following them you haven't broke a rule.

As for telling you to leave in a tell because they were in the area first they don't really have the right to, and it at times comes across as very arrogant.

They shouldn't OOC'ly be telling you to leave, since you could be there for a number of reasons, from passing through to another area to being in some kind of event in which requires you to pass that particular way, if anything they should be telling you to leave IC'ly.

I know a few times I've been told to leave areas like the Forest of Despair OOC'ly because they were there first, even though I had no plan to hunt/XP in that area, but merely pass through and it's annoying as hell.
Author:  Nekhy [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 14:46 PM ]
Post subject: 
My solution is to observe the folks in the area without interrupting their spawn. Then say "Hello there!", maybe "Oi, you there, need a hand?" if they're having trouble. Most people will respond to RP with RP, if you make it clear you're not after their kills (before teaming up, of course).

What follows is some IC discussion about where people are headed, do they need some extra blades, a level check (most do this OOCly for the sake of convenience, but it's nice to figure out IC ways to explain how many years you've been adventuring etc), determining if your morals fit with those of the folks you just met (if you're a druid or a paladin, you should think twice about teaming up with undead summoners). If all goes well, you just found some new possible friends! Now go continue the hunt, and RP as you fancy.

Some people are not very chatty when bashing monsters. Others might be sometimes in the mood for more breaks to exchange thoughts, and sometimes they're in the mood for less talk, more action. And then there's folks that don't care for RP much at all, which is a shame. Not RPing is in fact against the rules, so complete IC ignorance can be noted to a DM who may be delighted to tell those folks, that they're on a RP server. I'm one of those DMs, at least.

And if someone totally ignores you ICly and goes straight into OOC like, //piss off, I was here first, we're glad to correct them.

The rule is there to prevent blatant abuse, not to prevent RP. Not RPing is also against the rules.
Author:  IronAngel [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 14:57 PM ]
Post subject: 
Nekhy wrote:
Most people will respond to RP with RP


Can't stress this enough, either. It doesn't work 100% of the time, but it can generally be applied to most problems (of this nature) people have on Amia. A lot of the time, I outright refuse to go OOC if I'm asked/told something that isn't relevant. Staying IC is making a point that hopefully affects the behaviour of those around you and makes them feel ashamed.
Author:  Mr Mago [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 15:22 PM ]
Post subject: 
What we don't like:

1. When people, as soon as you encounter them, immediately write "// Level?" before having made any IC response.

2. When people, while hunting in commonly travelled through areas try to OOCly claim the area, as if they own it, and that those who travel through should leave because of it.

3. Parties who don't respond ICly to an encounter, thinking they can lean on the OOC ruleset to avoid conflicts or a self-inflicted beatdown.


If someone tries to OOCly claim areas like Skull Crags, Amia Frontier, Forest of Despair, Amia Forest, Brogdenstein Outskirts or Quagmire as theirs, for they're killing mobsters in it, I basically tell them to go stuff it.

In the end, this is an RP server. It's not a fucking personal playground for your action-ambition of getting to level 30 as soon as possible.

Still, the rule serves its purpose in preventing careless griefers who run ahead of parties and intentionally screw up their progression.
Author:  Herr Delta Houdini [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 15:31 PM ]
Post subject: 
Also, being suddenly sent an invitation to their party, asked your level, then booted for being out of range, this has happened to me numerous times, I've not said anything about it,(Other than this) yet, but it gets quite annoying. I tend to ignore random invites now anyway.
Author:  Paxus [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 16:51 PM ]
Post subject: 
Mr Mago wrote:
1. When people, as soon as you encounter them, immediately write "// Level?" before having made any IC response.

Oh-my-God. I hate the thing. When you meet some hunting players by accident, you open your mouth and say some IC sentences and then it comes out of nowhere like a freakin' lightning:
//lvl?
//lvl check?
//check?
//level?
Damn you all! :evil:
Author:  Selmak [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 17:15 PM ]
Post subject: 
It's the prelude to quickie partying - wham bam thanks for the XP bye.

Insist on using Tells for OOC communication while IC communication is going on. It might take longer, but it only takes two people in the two parties to perform a level check, and it's courteous to roleplayers who are using the Talk channel to not spam the same channel.

If you don't get anywhere with a simple request for courtesy, then you pretty much can't expect any other sort of of co-operation. I might be wrong about that, but in general when people don't accept hailing frequencies they either don't understand you or don't give a crap what you want.
Author:  soundofastream [ Fri, Sep 25 2009, 17:18 PM ]
Post subject: 
mmhmm the correct response is:

1. RP the encounter, if there's a shared agenda, join the party, often there's not.

2. Having said that, its someimes nigh impossible to find a party so I have sometimes resorted to partying with people my PC would never actually party with. When that happens, I feel bad, like I've let down my character, but then I figure, once you get past level 12, there's no need to use the party ball anymore, because by then, your PC usually can move around areas and not die immediately and you can go back to solo life if needed because there's no IC way you'd adventure with a necromancer in the same party as a druid and paladin anyhow.

3. I've tended to find most people don't rp much at the lower levels. I think, like Godo, if you've come from a more hardcore RP server than this one, its sometimes hard to tolerate the people who just think NWN is an action shoot em up video game. Amia has a broad cross section of target audience and quite a few people have come from action servers i guess. Even hardcore RP'ers tend to get influenced by that mindset, by being in the same party as them.

4. I'm beginning however, to see real merit in the job system, you can RP with it quite well I found AND gain XP. I've even levelled whole levels with the job system.

5. But like everyone, I grind for xp, loot farm and all the things which, you do in order to gain some levels to get some semblance of the PC you're trying to play.

6. There's been a few times when, I don't even know whose "up ahead" in the area because, I've come from a different entrance or the Underdark. Not all the areas are perfectly linear. What the "front of and back" is, depends on whether you're an Underdarker or Surfacer in many cases. I've had OOC tells sent to me about me pushing in, when I explain that I'm going opposite way to them and that they're the invaders into the Underground realms, the whole thing gets even more confusing!

7. it seems the rules and game mechanics sometimes set people up to fail. What to one party is a hunting ground, to another, is a territorial patrol route and invaders are seen as hostile until proven otherwise. I've had a few cases where my PC is on patrol, where you kill the spawns as you would if attacked along a route, and others then say "hey, we were here first!"....
Author:  Godo [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 1:18 AM ]
Post subject: 
All great points and I do understand the need for rules to halt wankers from taking over, however, not everyone is a wanker and such rules should be used prudently and without hast.

My main point to my post was that I shall not be one of those who will try and run others away from a area for OOC hunting and exp gathering purposes. If I am in a area exp hunting and others come to that area do not think you must leave because of some rule, instead go into RP mode and continue with your hunt in the area as well. Just be aware though that I will RP Godo accordingly to his character without concern for any exp gathering being done.

Also be aware that just because you do not see someone else or a group in the area doesn’t mean you are the first in that area as well, especially when it comes to characters like Godo who do allot of sneak attacks, run hide, attack, lure single mobs to a hiding place and attack, ect ect. You may not see or notice others in the area when you are there hunting as well. Amia is for us all to have fun, lets all share in that fun and create fun for others as well as ourselves.
Author:  soundofastream [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 2:33 AM ]
Post subject: 
I love Godo! One of the most memorable characters around. :D
Author:  TeroSNS [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 5:31 AM ]
Post subject: 
[quote="Paxus"][quote="Mr Mago"]1. When people, as soon as you encounter them, immediately write "// Level?" before having made any IC response.
[/quote]
Oh-my-God. I hate the thing. When you meet some hunting players by accident, you open your mouth and say some IC sentences and then it comes out of nowhere like a freakin' lightning:
//lvl?
//lvl check?
//check?
//level?
Damn you all! :evil:[/quote]

well at least that is more better than just "//hey gtho from our hunting grounds"
Author:  O'Raghailligh [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 9:04 AM ]
Post subject: 
Mr Mago wrote:
What we don't like:

1. When people, as soon as you encounter them, immediately write "// Level?" before having made any IC response.

2. When people, while hunting in commonly travelled through areas try to OOCly claim the area, as if they own it, and that those who travel through should leave because of it.

3. Parties who don't respond ICly to an encounter, thinking they can lean on the OOC ruleset to avoid conflicts or a self-inflicted beatdown.


If someone tries to OOCly claim areas like Skull Crags, Amia Frontier, Forest of Despair, Amia Forest, Brogdenstein Outskirts or Quagmire as theirs, for they're killing mobsters in it, I basically tell them to go stuff it.

In the end, this is an RP server. It's not a (censored) personal playground for your action-ambition of getting to level 30 as soon as possible.

Still, the rule serves its purpose in preventing careless griefers who run ahead of parties and intentionally screw up their progression.


I've gotta say, I agree entirely with this comment. Has happened to me on many occasions and irritates the fudge outta me.

Especially when they take that OOC rule of 'I was here first so leave' and impose it as IC knowledge and law.
Author:  Nekhy [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 9:07 AM ]
Post subject: 
If people are not being reasonable about matching the OOC rules and IC situations, just tell a DM.

If only people played with this utilitarian approach to the game... figure out which option gives the greatest amount of enjoyment for the greatest amount of players, and do it.
Author:  Uberuce [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 9:37 AM ]
Post subject: 
My favoured smartarse response to "//level?" is "Levels is the system by which the game advances your character's skills and prowess as you progress in fighting monsters. I'm amazed you've not worked this out by now, given we're in the Abyss"
Author:  xordae [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 10:46 AM ]
Post subject: 
//Class?

"Hell no"

//Build?

"Scrawny"

//LoL wil u fite my sumon wit ur sumon ooc i wanna c who wins

"Get a dog up ya"

That's my holy trinity of answers and they've served me well throughout the years.
Author:  Gravemaskin [ Sat, Sep 26 2009, 11:04 AM ]
Post subject: 
As someone who also play a stealth char, I can relate to that. People tend to come barging in and start fighting the mob you're killing, if they don't immediately see you.

And whenever someone comes running up with a //lvl? emote or instant invite, I pointedly ignore that, have my char say "I don't need or want your help.. please leave" and continue hunting.

If only they had put some effort into actual RP, they would probably have gotten a hunting ground, especially if they are there for the XP and not the loot ...
Author:  Cori [ Sun, Sep 27 2009, 0:53 AM ]
Post subject: 
Ruce's answer to "//Level?" rocks.

Personally, I insta-reject insta-invites, and force rp to the situation. Then if rp makes an invite appropriate, I'll take/send it. And if the other player(s) wont' rp in return, then if it's "my" area, they can get stuffed, and if it's "their" area, I'll move on.
Author:  Crowsterf [ Sun, Sep 27 2009, 12:05 PM ]
Post subject: 
Arnt we all just level 1 characters with no class?
Author:  Zante [ Sun, Sep 27 2009, 12:46 PM ]
Post subject: 
Asking for level first makes sense really... It tells you if you should even bother inviting them along or not. More sense than asking someone to join your hunt, them agreeing... and then having to come up with an excuse why they can't come after all.

It avoids:

A: Hello lad, would you like to lend your hand against these foul creatures in the name of the triad?
B: As a servant of the triad, it is my holy duty to offer my blade! I shall help you.
A:Come on then, my friend. //level?
B: //out of range
B: Uhh.... actually, I changed my mind, go on alone.

If you find out you can't hunt together beforehand, you can avoid the awkwardness of partying up and just agree to go your own ways to begin with.
Author:  Kjetta [ Sun, Sep 27 2009, 12:53 PM ]
Post subject: 
Or just party up anyways and worry about XP later?
Author:  Yurell [ Sun, Sep 27 2009, 13:31 PM ]
Post subject: 
Kjetta wrote:
Or just party up anyways and worry about XP later?


You've no idea how many lowbie parties have had a lvl 30 dwarf with them in Caraigh because of that :P
Author:  Dead [ Sat, Oct 10 2009, 16:04 PM ]
Post subject: 
I always approach the party in a way that suit my character.
If someone asks me to leave the area OOCly i will sure do so but it spoils the fun.

The same problem goes when I am in the mindless grinding party.
Author:  Godo [ Sat, Oct 10 2009, 18:51 PM ]
Post subject: 
It sometimes becomes hard for me because I do not go by others levels and when stalking some parties they tend to get mad because I am a higher level that they cant kill easily. To let everyone know, I do not go out to kill anyone, though sometimes it happens, I go out to RP by stalking parties in the hope to separate one and rob them. When Godo tries to rob you and you decide to get robed for the RP just toss down ten or twenty gold just for the RP of it, am not there to get rich but there just to RP the highwaymen.

Remember that conflict RP doesn’t have to start PvP and when it does it doesn’t have to end in death and even when that happens doesn’t mean it has to end in a respawn. Try your best also to keep separated the IC from the OOC anger and hatreds, what happens IC should not reflect into OOC and vice versa.

One other thing if I may, although I do not go out to kill anyone or be killed by anyone, your characters IC actions can cause such. If a Goblin goes around a tree and hides then if your character doesn’t have the smarts to not chase that goblin into its own advantage point then perhaps the character deserves to get killed. Corner a animal to try and kill it then said animal will fight back no matter how cowardly it is.
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