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The Round Up Debate
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40930		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Azrael [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 9:32 AM ]
Post subject:  The Round Up Debate
Alright the jist of the question is, is it allowed to fight multiple spawns at once..and if so how many? Is there a limit?

I've got two In-game DM rulings, I'll keep them anonymous, they can speak if they choose to of course.

One says It's ok to fight multiple spawns....basically it's not against the rules, it's not a bug or glitch or any sort of cheating, completely IC.

One says It's not ok because on occasion it causes script error messages from all the things being fought.

Lag-wise, I haven't noticed much of a difference personally, perhaps it's my comp, perhaps it's cause I mostly do this during low server times..idk

But you know the general issue, and aside from the script messages of text there doesn't seem to be any other adverse effects in game... In Example the server has never crashed as a result of this from what I've seen.

Let the debate begin I suppose:




p.s. Yes I followed each dm ruling as it was given in game, the first ruling was that it was ok, it's after the second that I made this post.
Author:  BrainSplitter [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 9:49 AM ]
Post subject: 
Legally, it's OK. Grabbing a spawn or two to help take 'em out at once is kosher.

However, if you do too many (I'd suggest nothing more than 3 spawns -at absolute most-) you can start affecting server stability, especially of you've got summons with you.

So, it's legal; but please, don't do it. Server has crashed before as a result, though usually my fellow DMs will catch it in time.
Author:  belgianbonzai [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 9:50 AM ]
Post subject: 
sometimes its impossible to not draw more spawns.

Like when you're feared by a quagmire lizard shaman and run around spawning everything on one area of the map there...

so unless the mechanics don't force you to it anywhere, it should be legal.

Also, you have to be pretty stupid to do it unless you can dispose of the stuff quickly, which means that you can spawn a lot but will clear the mess up quick as well, normally... so should be ok from my point of view.
Author:  FA_Frey_XC [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 9:52 AM ]
Post subject: 
FUN FACT:

In the MMO world this is called "pulling" or "kiting a mob" and it's a tactic used all the time to pull multiple MoBs together, then nuke them all for mass XP.

Unfortunately, the same mechanics don't work well with NWN.

Regards,
Author:  ticket [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:09 AM ]
Post subject: 
:oops:

I quite often spawn ~ 4-6 mobs at a time but I always thought it's not a big deal. I've never had the server spew script errors before at me so I'm thinking it's just fine as long as I clean them up.

Azrael wrote:
aside from the script messages of text


And what about running past mobs to get to the epic boss?
Author:  Neus Scario [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:13 AM ]
Post subject: 
Unless what you're doing is causing a noticeable hit in server performance, I doubt that any DM is going to punish you for it.
Author:  Yurell [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:34 AM ]
Post subject: 
I didn't even realise this could be seen as wrong. I thought it was just a legitimate tactic.
Author:  Azrael [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:37 AM ]
Post subject: 
ticket wrote:
Azrael wrote:
aside from the script messages of text


And what about running past mobs to get to the epic boss?


That's another topic, but it has a point...I imagine it causes some lag to leave them all.
Author:  BrainSplitter [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:37 AM ]
Post subject: 
It's simply because the AI goes a bit haywire if it's got too many targets, or too many friendlies, to operate with.

You get a Too Many Instructions error, and in doing so; that script has backed up a bit. NWN runs its scripts all in a single thread, so if one script slows down - the rest can't operate until it finishes. When you get n+1 monsters trying to do this same, bugging, slowing down script; it starts to really add up and have issues of its own.

Hence; dun' do it.
Author:  Herr Delta Houdini [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:50 AM ]
Post subject: 
It just seems a common sense kind of thing to not spawn an obscene amount of creatures to me, just two spawns can cause a punch of lag at most of the higher leveling areas, especially ones like Yuan-ti, where they have their Premonition on and their spamming of Magic missiles.
Author:  Uberuce [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:54 AM ]
Post subject: 
Turning the Curse in Kohl Manor is a real bastard for this, not least because most powertwunts like me don't bother doing it until it's a breeze, which means on the spellcasters there's Firebrand, Sunburst, Mass Heal, Earthquake and pals horsing the server.
Author:  camthrax [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 10:56 AM ]
Post subject: 
In an incident that I walked in to today, I noticed SEVERE lag in the area that I walked in to, which is OK for me, as my comp and connection can handle it most of the time. However, it did irritate me somewhat to see that much lag.. and it just sort of felt wrong to see it happening.


It is also annoying to see that many messages popping up in the chatbox like that, especially in a bit of quiet RP halfway accross the other side of the server. Yes, I'm aware you can turn those off, but I assume you'd also turn off the reset notifications.
Author:  BlackDahlya [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 11:28 AM ]
Post subject: 
I didn't know about this.

Recently, in trying to find Amia's Ore deposits, I got one of my characters to run through a couple of areas without fighting the spawns. Note, the areas were one of those not always visited.

Anyway, since I was using an invisibility potion, they didn't follow me, but the spawns were still triggered while not moving an inch unless if I ran close to them, when then they would follow and stop after I mislead them.

I never, never knew this could be a problem. I will be more careful next time and slay them all, rather than just run past.
Author:  Zante [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 11:34 AM ]
Post subject: 
I often sneak though areas with mobs simply because I can't kill them on my own, but need to get past them somehow. Or I am doing a hit and run on Babylon, taking out every single snake would take me more than a reset.
Author:  Nekhy [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 11:37 AM ]
Post subject: 
Well, let's put it this way: we don't care as long as nobody complains of the effects (whatever effects they might be). If you get told to stop it, cease immediately, because there's a reason you're told to stop doing it.

Mind that there might not always be a DM to tell you to stop it, and yet other players may be suffering from the extreme lag its causing. I suppose the only OK times to do it are when the server is quite empty. At other times, remember the others.
Author:  BlackDahlya [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 11:45 AM ]
Post subject: 
Nekhy wrote:
Well, let's put it this way: we don't care as long as nobody complains of the effects (whatever effects they might be). If you get told to stop it, cease immediately, because there's a reason you're told to stop doing it.

Mind that there might not always be a DM to tell you to stop it, and yet other players may be suffering from the extreme lag its causing. I suppose the only OK times to do it are when the server is quite empty. At other times, remember the others.


90% of the times I did it, was when the server is nearly empty.

Still, I will not do it again, not even with an empty server.

I'll hit them as they come.
Author:  Herr Delta Houdini [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 13:56 PM ]
Post subject: 
BlackDahlya wrote:
I didn't know about this.

Recently, in trying to find Amia's Ore deposits, I got one of my characters to run through a couple of areas without fighting the spawns. Note, the areas were one of those not always visited.

Anyway, since I was using an invisibility potion, they didn't follow me, but the spawns were still triggered while not moving an inch unless if I ran close to them, when then they would follow and stop after I mislead them.

I never, never knew this could be a problem. I will be more careful next time and slay them all, rather than just run past.


Spawning creatures while invisible, causing them to just stand there causes less lag than spawning and fighting them anyhow.

Also, I think the Despawn timer was set to a shorter duration, so I think that any lag you cause doing that wont be much, especially not compared to setting five or more spawns off and fighting them at once, since there will be animations activating, rolls, visuals of buffers/offensive spells if they cast when a hostile is near and in range.

I sometimes miss spawns as my Sneaker, because it would take me forever to kill the spawns because he isn't all that great on the offense side, which probably causes alot less lag than if I took (likely) over three minutes to kill the spawn(s).
Author:  swe_west_coast [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 16:57 PM ]
Post subject: 
Running around screaming and jumping, spamming anything around you (like brog barbarians, or beastmen) and then running back to the cleric that is casting Storm of Vengeance is a nice way to clear out spawns, always has. I really can't see what's wrong with it. Give the poor underpowered clerics some use in the party.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 17:26 PM ]
Post subject: 
Long as you ain't breaking the server, I don't mind. I admit to dong it myself in Brigands. Kekekekekekeke.
Author:  corypx [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 17:39 PM ]
Post subject: 
yeah I do it in Yuan-ti if I go down there, killing like 25 at once take less time for me then if I were to kill them in the groups of 5.
Author:  Yurell [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 22:18 PM ]
Post subject: 
It's nice for the Disabler of the party to smack that many enemies at once. Or a Wizard to Wail them all :P
Author:  Dwagin [ Tue, Aug 25 2009, 23:40 PM ]
Post subject: 
I thought this originally was about, and was looking forward to that discussion of Herbicide.
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