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| Author: | Corendran [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 15:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | The god of law and order |
Just a minor question. Who is the god of law and order in the forgotten realms? Can't remember, and i just might need that info. |
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| Author: | Kjetta [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 15:58 PM ] |
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HOAR! |
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| Author: | QPR [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 16:01 PM ] |
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Helm isnt it? Or Amanuator if you go 4e heresy |
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| Author: | Uncle-Opustus [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 16:02 PM ] |
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Helm, Hoar, Tyr, Torm, Kelemvor? On and on the list goes. Different aspects of law and order, really. You need to pick your own preference that will fit what you were planning for the character. |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 16:05 PM ] |
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Helm is your standard assumption, but as Opustus said there are many gods that embody different styles of law. Even Bane does (through Tyranny). |
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| Author: | The Cobbit [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 16:07 PM ] |
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Jerry Orbach, or possibly Sam Waterston. |
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| Author: | Dwagin [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 16:07 PM ] |
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Order and law is without a doubt something Mechanus would like. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 17:41 PM ] |
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Tyr is Justice, Helm is Vigilance, Torm is Duty and Honor. Pick one, they all work. |
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| Author: | Uncle-Opustus [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 17:42 PM ] |
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You can't generalise them like that! |
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| Author: | ShortSlasher [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 18:03 PM ] |
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Bane! He demands law and order. |
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| Author: | Vaylek [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 18:39 PM ] |
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Yeah in terms of gods that emphasise order in society grounded in laws, its Tyr (good slant) or Bane (evil slant). Helm just stands there guarding things and Hoar makes up his own justice. Sure they're lawful but they're not gods of law :p |
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| Author: | Corendran [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 20:26 PM ] |
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Well, damn, i was thinking amongst the lines of ''absolute law'' and ''complete order.'' So there's no god who would emphasize ONLY law? Like, the laws of humans. Particular laws. Written ones. I quess Tyr would be close, but then again, isn't he the justful god? thats why he's good aligned. A true god of laws would be neutral...Maybe i could make a paladin who has no god, and only serves law & order... |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 20:27 PM ] |
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You need to define law, I think. Defining the law as it is written, adhering to the letter, not the spirit, and meting out harsh justice in accordance to the law is pretty much a Tyrran thing though. |
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| Author: | HellScourge [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 20:57 PM ] |
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Corendran wrote: Maybe i could make a paladin who has no god, and only serves law & order...
Not neccesarily the class Paladin but spirit wise, perhaps? Fighter class would work for that. You'd loose smite evil though and the other nifty things of being a paladin. |
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| Author: | Mahtan [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 21:06 PM ] |
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He's looking for the Forgotten Realms Version of The Elder Scrolls Jyggalag. The closest I can think of is Torm or Tyr. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 21:37 PM ] |
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Man, you totally just posted spoilers for Shivering isles! |
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| Author: | HellScourge [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 21:38 PM ] |
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TormakSaber wrote: Man, you totally just posted spoilers for Shivering isles!
More spoilers for you! Aerith/Aeris dies! Take that. |
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| Author: | Mahtan [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 22:18 PM ] |
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Removed it but you really learn it in like the first hour of entering the Isles. <.< Didn't even think about it. |
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| Author: | joeymango29 [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 23:26 PM ] |
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Judge Dredd |
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| Author: | GreatPigeon [ Fri, Jun 19 2009, 23:42 PM ] |
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HellScourge wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Man, you totally just posted spoilers for Shivering isles! More spoilers for you! Aerith/Aeris dies! Take that. Bastard |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 1:56 AM ] |
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I would say Helm. Helm upholds law and order over anything. Hell, he was the one Ao trusted to keep the gods in line during the times of trouble. Helm was the only one to keep is divinity so he would make sure none of the gods would try to get theirs back. He's the ultimate guard and therefore the ultimate upholder of rules and laws! Hurray for Helm! Down with Tyr! |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 1:57 AM ] |
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: I would say Helm. Helm upholds law and order over anything. Hell, he was the one Ao trusted to keep the gods in line during the times of trouble. Helm was the only one to keep is divinity so he would make sure none of the gods would try to get theirs back. He's the ultimate guard and therefore the ultimate upholder of rules and laws! Hurray for Helm! Down with Tyr!
See fourth ed 
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| Author: | Crowsterf [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 2:48 AM ] |
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Yurell wrote: o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: I would say Helm. Helm upholds law and order over anything. Hell, he was the one Ao trusted to keep the gods in line during the times of trouble. Helm was the only one to keep is divinity so he would make sure none of the gods would try to get theirs back. He's the ultimate guard and therefore the ultimate upholder of rules and laws! Hurray for Helm! Down with Tyr! See fourth ed Pfft to 4th ed. |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 3:17 AM ] |
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Hey, if there's one thing I like about 4th edition lore is that they killed off Tyr. 
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 11:14 AM ] |
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Tyr was pretty uninvolved in the realms anyways, and Torm is a really cool good once you read about him. He's a good choice for the new Justice god. |
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| Author: | QPR [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 11:19 AM ] |
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KIlling Helm can never be forgiven though 
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 11:21 AM ] |
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Helm's 15 minutes of fame was the ToT. He's old hat now. killing shaundakul can never be forgiven, though! |
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| Author: | Lutra [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 11:23 AM ] |
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TormakSaber wrote: Tyr was pretty uninvolved in the realms anyways, and Torm is a really cool good once you read about him. He's a good choice for the new Justice god.
Nah....Bahamut is the one who is taking Tyr's place. He will be the new Justice god. |
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| Author: | QPR [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 11:39 AM ] |
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They killed Shaundakul?! :O Those insensitive, uncool bastards.. *sniff* |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 11:45 AM ] |
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Let's not forget that Tyr, our god of 'justice', was quite happy to kill Helm for petty revenge (for a crime he hadn't investigated to find that it wasn't true). Talk about a good god of justice. |
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| Author: | Lutra [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 11:47 AM ] |
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Yurell wrote: Let's not forget that Tyr, our god of 'justice', was quite happy to kill Helm for petty revenge (for a crime he hadn't investigated to find that it wasn't true).
Talk about a good god of justice. Lies 
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| Author: | Dev Disco [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 12:23 PM ] |
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Quote: Who is the god of law and order [...]
I thought it was Tormak? |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 13:07 PM ] |
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Dev Disco wrote: Quote: Who is the god of law and order [...] I thought it was Tormak? Lawlz But yeah, I hate Tyr. Bahamut is an alright choice but Torm would have been a better one. Maybe even Imater, to add some spice to him beyond suffering. A human god should have taken justice, not a dragon. That's my only problem with that. Killing Helm, Mask, Nobanion, Velsharoon, Urogalan, Shaundakul and Rillifane Rallathil were all lame choices if you ask me. Getting rid of Yondalla and Talos, stupid as all hell as well. |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 13:09 PM ] |
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Dev Disco wrote: Quote: Who is the god of law and order [...] I thought it was Tormak? Lawlz But yeah, I hate Tyr. Bahamut is an alright choice but Torm would have been a better one. Maybe even Imater, to add some spice to him beyond suffering. A human god should have taken justice, not a dragon. That's my only problem with that. Killing Helm, Mask, Nobanion, Velsharoon, Urogalan, Shaundakul and Rillifane Rallathil were all lame choices if you ask me. Getting rid of Yondalla and Talos, stupid as all hell as well. And the entire drow pantheon. Now they have no choice by to worship Lloth. The only humanoid race that's monotheistic as far as I'm aware. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 13:12 PM ] |
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Dev Disco wrote: Quote: Who is the god of law and order [...] I thought it was Tormak? Lawlz But yeah, I hate Tyr. Bahamut is an alright choice but Torm would have been a better one. Maybe even Imater, to add some spice to him beyond suffering. A human god should have taken justice, not a dragon. That's my only problem with that. Killing Helm, Mask, Nobanion, Velsharoon, Urogalan, Shaundakul and Rillifane Rallathil were all lame choices if you ask me. Getting rid of Yondalla and Talos, stupid as all hell as well. Ummm, a human god DID take Justice. Torm has Tyr's portfolio in 4e? I believe he even got Helm's too! Torm made out like a BANDIT in 4e. |
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| Author: | Crowsterf [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 13:16 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The god of law and order |
Corendran wrote: Just a minor question.
Who is the god of law and order in the forgotten realms? Can't remember, and i just might need that info. Hehe guess its not that minor a question, sorry youll have to filter out the 4th ed crap to get your answer. |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 13:44 PM ] |
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TormakSaber wrote: Ummm, a human god DID take Justice. Torm has Tyr's portfolio in 4e? I believe he even got Helm's too! Torm made out like a BANDIT in 4e.
No he didn't. Bahamut was given Justice, not Torm. As for Helms portfolio, I'm actually not sure who took that one. I don't think anyone did. |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 13:47 PM ] |
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Ummm, a human god DID take Justice. Torm has Tyr's portfolio in 4e? I believe he even got Helm's too! Torm made out like a BANDIT in 4e. No he didn't. Bahamut was given Justice, not Torm. As for Helms portfolio, I'm actually not sure who took that one. I don't think anyone did. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bahamut Says Bahamut got Justice. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Torm Doesn't mention Torm got any of Helm's portfolios. |
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| Author: | Galenson [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 14:03 PM ] |
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Pfft... Lolth is ze Law. |
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| Author: | IronAngel [ Sat, Jun 20 2009, 17:41 PM ] |
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Nobanion, as the patron of royalty, would represent the law in an authoritarian monarchy. Siamporphe would be the defender of the law and status quo of a land ruled by nobility. Helm is the most neutral of the choices presented, but he's more fitting a guard than a judge: he does what he's told to, I don't think he's much of a legal expert. But the simple answer is: who is the patron of the written law depends on which land's law you're speaking of. Many countries have laws closely reflecting the doctrines of the dominant local faith. In many places, Tyrrans act as judges and executioners, but he does also have that "justice over law" thing going in, especially among his LG worshipers might go vigilante for true justice. |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Sun, Jun 21 2009, 0:27 AM ] |
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Keep in mind that Nobanion is more concerned with the wild than with the overly civilized though. Siamorphe is more the civilized version. |
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| Author: | Corendran [ Sun, Jun 21 2009, 7:38 AM ] |
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joeymango29 wrote: Judge Dredd
Ya, something like that. But more justful. And now i remember the term i was looking for! UNIVERSAL LAW. |
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| Author: | IronAngel [ Sun, Jun 21 2009, 9:37 AM ] |
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Well, Nobanion really has two aspects, as far as I can see. Primarily, he is a nature deity, but secondarily he is the patron and protector of royalty, both their rights and responsibilities. As such, his clergy would probably be enforcers or strong supporters of a legal, benevolent monarchy. There's really no "universal law" that any deity represents. While there's definite Chaotic and Lawful forces in the universe, it's unclear even to the gods what they mean and nobody has managed to embody them perfectly. You will find several LN gods who have a different idea about law. If by law, you want justice, Tyr is your best choice. If you want honour, it's Torm. If you want to listen to orders and adhere to the letter of the law, I'd say Helm. For an unusual take on it, you could even go Deneir: he is the patron of everything that is written, and as such some Deneirrath might work as keepers and experts of the written laws of certain realms. But then, most faiths consider their doctrines universal law! >_> |
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| Author: | Corendran [ Mon, Jun 22 2009, 10:48 AM ] |
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Mm...Deneir and Helm could work. Also, by universal law i mean laws that are the same almost everywhere. (Dont steal, dont kill...Stuff like that.) |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Mon, Jun 22 2009, 12:14 PM ] |
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Corendran wrote: Mm...Deneir and Helm could work.
Also, by universal law i mean laws that are the same almost everywhere. (Dont steal, dont kill...Stuff like that.) That would be most goodly gods really. Another god that wasn't mentioned is Lathander. He fits what you're asking for too. It would be even more fitting if you brought the Risen Sun heresy (the belief that Lathander is actually the "dead" Amaunator, reborn) in to the picture since Amaunator was god of sun, law, contracts, bureaucracy, order, and rulership. |
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| Author: | Corendran [ Mon, Jun 22 2009, 13:54 PM ] |
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: would be even more fitting if you brought the Risen Sun heresy (the belief that Lathander is actually the "dead" Amaunator, reborn) in to the picture since Amaunator was god of sun, law, contracts, bureaucracy, order, and rulership.
Hmm...That would be a really nice RP-touch. And would easen my work a lot
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| Author: | MoshingChris [ Mon, Jun 22 2009, 14:03 PM ] |
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Osiris for that minor super specific diety that has a slowly growing population on Amia of two! |
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