Eh... I guess it's a good thing since a skin change is the same price and all. I just wish it was harder for people to get them. I hate seeing so many people with wings. It's just... eh... I'm a RDD hater to the fullest. I'll just leave it at that
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| Wings - new DC price https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38804 |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 8:05 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Wings - new DC price |
Right, so we've been talking wings. The flappy things on your back that some players have a fondness for. In particular, the price for the flappy pieces of skin on your back. The old price was 50 DCs, but now it'll be lower: 25 DCs. Deflation, global financial crisis and all that jazz, see. But before you jump the flappy-things-in-a-can bandwagon, realise that the standards for wings has not gone down, even if the price deflated. You can't just ask for wings if you got 25 DCs in your pocket and expect to get some. No, you are still asked to provide us an impeccable RP reason why your character sprouts wings. Hint: the more conservative reasons tend to succeed here, over the avant-garde lore experiments of pink dwarves protruding baby blue angel wings because Puff the Magic Dragon did it. In any case, if you're hoping for a pair of wings, I wish you happy DC hunting! |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 8:07 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't, simply because the idea of "hunting for DCs" nags me on a principle level! |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 8:13 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm glad that this has happened! A tad annoyed it was after I stopped playing my Half Devil :P but I think it's a much more 'realistic' pricing. Does this affect tails as well? Weren't they the same price (or do I know nothing)? |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 8:14 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
It was never really brought up or discussed, but yes, I suppose they're 25 too. |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 8:21 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I just started a discussion on this on the DM forums, so what Tormak said is subject to change, maybe. |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:04 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Eh... I guess it's a good thing since a skin change is the same price and all. I just wish it was harder for people to get them. I hate seeing so many people with wings. It's just... eh... I'm a RDD hater to the fullest. I'll just leave it at that
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| Author: | Sokar Rostau [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:08 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sort of on topic... A couple of weeks ago I was partied with someone new to the server who was playing a Shadow Dragon Disciple as their first character. Given that I've been playing one for about a year I was interested in the character and we discussed a few things about Shadow Dragons and how awesome they are, given that they're the coolest and most awesomest of all cool and awesome dragons ever... Anyway he seemed to be a little over-excited about his wings and it wasn't until he took off his cloak that I found out why. The DM who gave him the Shadow Dragon traits gave him Demon Wings rather than Black Dragon Wings. When I commented that that shouldn't have been the case he told me that the DM did it so there would be no mistaking him for a Black DD. These weren't even the kind of Demon Wiings that Succubi have which would make some sense - these wings were huge. I mentioned this in-game to a DM and was told it would be raised in the DM forums. Are Shadow DDs getting different wings by default now or was this simply a mistake? |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:22 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
No, they should get the default RDD model. Must have been a mistake. |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:31 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Any chance of other DC purchases getting revisions? Such as Monkey Grip? |
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| Author: | Signe Johanne [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:31 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Eh... I guess it's a good thing since a skin change is the same price and all. I just wish it was harder for people to get them. I hate seeing so many people with wings. It's just... eh... I'm a RDD hater to the fullest. I'll just leave it at that
RDDs get their wings for free at 9th lvl, iirc. Nothing much to do about that, although I'd like to...  I'm not really hating on RDDs, though. I just don't like the heavy numbers we've got on our tiny little island.
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:37 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Nekhy wrote: No, they should get the default RDD model. Must have been a mistake.
Disco's RDD colorizer gives Shadow Dragons the Black Demon Wings: Saris and every other Shadow dragon has them. Understandabnly no Shadow Dragon has ever bothered to mention it. 
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:38 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Selvec Darkon wrote: Any chance of other DC purchases getting revisions? Such as Monkey Grip?
It takes a skin change so it firmly sits at 25. |
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| Author: | Sokar Rostau [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:56 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I just checked my Shadow DD and she has the same wings as a Succubus, which makes sense... the character I'm talking about had something very different - large and of a different shape. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 9:57 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, it's the same wings, simply a different color and texture. i know the wings you're talking about. They're labeled as "Dragon Wings, Black 2" but are modelled like the Demon Wings. |
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| Author: | HellScourge [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 11:31 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
TormakSaber wrote: I don't, simply because the idea of "hunting for DCs" nags me on a principle level!
Hunting for DC's... Just how do I need to imagine that? "Hey! YOU! Yes, you there, RP with me and slap me with your DC rod!" ? |
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| Author: | Delarwyn [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 12:00 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
So, can I have my fey wings done? I had it approved, but I have only 43 DCs. 
I can past here the PM with the approval. Quote: o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:
Eh... I guess it's a good thing since a skin change is the same price and all. I just wish it was harder for people to get them. I hate seeing so many people with wings. It's just... eh... I'm a RDD hater to the fullest. I'll just leave it at that Confused You get wings with RDD lvl 10, you just need the widget. They are free. We pay for all the other wings. |
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| Author: | Galenson [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 13:24 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Actually it's level 9 RDD you get the wings. Level 10 is just the dragon bonuses. Even though the price has dropped, the real question remains: Do you want to join the Amian norm by playing a freak character? |
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| Author: | Delarwyn [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 13:38 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, I play three freak characters already. I love them to the bits. So, yeah!!!!!!!!!! and yes, lvl 9. It has being a while I made Elrid. I don't even remember. |
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| Author: | Shrewd [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 13:39 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
*Cries about those extra 25 DCs.* Any chance the people who paid 50 DCs for wings can be refunded 25? |
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| Author: | Galenson [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 13:41 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Its your fault for being and old fart and buying early. 
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| Author: | Ziacat [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 14:40 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Marauth wrote: *Cries about those extra 25 DCs.*
Any chance the people who paid 50 DCs for wings can be refunded 25? No. |
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| Author: | drahgon [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 20:43 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Marauth wrote: *Cries about those extra 25 DCs.*
Any chance the people who paid 50 DCs for wings can be refunded 25? some of us new folk have never even seen 25 DC let alone 50
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Sat, Jun 13 2009, 21:41 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Marauth wrote: *Cries about those extra 25 DCs.*
Any chance the people who paid 50 DCs for wings can be refunded 25? I'd just like to tell the DM team I called this happening... *cough*. No refunds. |
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| Author: | Shrewd [ Sun, Jun 14 2009, 3:53 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Are tails reduced also? |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Jun 14 2009, 3:56 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Marauth wrote: Are tails reduced also?
They're discussing it |
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| Author: | Uncle-Opustus [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 13:40 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've always wanted a character with wings, so I could burn it and pity myself afterwards. |
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| Author: | Jan [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 13:46 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ziacat wrote: No. TormakSaber wrote: No refunds.
The obvious question is uh, why? Deflation? |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 13:50 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Jan wrote: Ziacat wrote: No. TormakSaber wrote: No refunds. The obvious question is uh, why? Deflation? Why should you be refunded? If you bought something and it came down in price later, that doesn't mean that you deserve your money back. |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 14:06 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yup. If the price of something goes down, it doesn't mean everyone who bought their stuff earlier get some of the money back. |
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| Author: | Jan [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 14:23 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Still doesn't answer the question. I'm not even gonna bother argue it, I just want to know. |
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| Author: | IronAngel [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 14:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
If the question is, "Why are there no refunds?", it's phrased wrong. The question should be "Why should there be refunds?" We don't give DCs "for free." That's why you will not suddenly receive 25 DCs. A refund implies that you have some special right to get 25 extra DCs with the excuse that you're getting them back for something you already used them for in the past. We don't give wing-owners 25 DCs, because we don't give anyone else 25 DCs either. Now, you could argue that you have the right to get a refund. And I think the above posts counter that very well: you got what you paid for. It might bum you to see that weeks later, other people get it cheaper, but that's life. (Mind that we haven't sold any new wings in months, IIRC; it might have been reconsidered if someone had just bought them a week before the decision.) I bought a sweater for 30€ last December, and they're now selling it for 5€. I didn't really need that sweater in the meantime, but I still didn't get 25€ back as a refund. I also rebuilt Kalliniel weeks before the rebuild costs were drastically lowered, and I didn't even play that version of him for more than a few times. I didn't get refunded. Because that's not how buying and selling works. |
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| Author: | Dev Disco [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 14:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Besides, everybody knows we're a bunch of mean misers. |
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| Author: | Gondor [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 14:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dev Disco wrote: Besides, everybody knows we're a bunch of mean misers.
You god damnit lowered the price with 25 DC! How dare you. 
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| Author: | hendrack [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 15:09 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thats like asking if you retire a char and you want your burned DCs back. |
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| Author: | Gondor [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 15:11 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Aye. Why not? |
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| Author: | Ts_ [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 15:22 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
hendrack wrote: Thats like asking if you retire a char and you want your burned DCs back.
That's really no argument at all as that would be a very valid model. Another model would be that you collect and spend DCs for each chars indivdually. Or that you collect DCs on all chars together, but could spend them once for each char and they are really pretty sparkles for you whenever you are logged in. Or that DCs expire after 3 months. Or whatnot. However, the DCs are given out under the assumption that they have the specific value the system gives them right now.* Regards, Ts *) Actually, most likely drugs and intimate favors are more important. |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 15:29 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
You can't buy the latest HDTV from Best Buy and then 5 months later, after using it day in and day out, take it back and expect your money back. You bought it. Enjoy. Or don't. But don't expect to get your money back. |
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| Author: | Zante [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 15:41 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Galenson wrote: Do you want to join the Amian norm by playing a freak character?
Hell yea, the more the better I say. Everyone should be able to make a special char, the new price makes wings much more realistic to get for a lot of people. 
*starts saving up and thinking of a story* |
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| Author: | BrainSplitter [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:04 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Keep in mind, we're keeping a rather extreme standard for their request; that being. "Bloody Good".We're not interested in making the Horde of Winged Freaks issue any worse. |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
WonWon wrote: Keep in mind, we're keeping a rather extreme standard for their request; that being. "Bloody Good".We're not interested in making the Horde of Winged Freaks issue any worse.
<3 |
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| Author: | Jan [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:18 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: You can't buy the latest HDTV from Best Buy and then 5 months later, after using it day in and day out, take it back and expect your money back..
You know, I don't mind having the motivation behind the decision explained to me, but these comparisons with real life shopping are completely moot. There is absolutely no connection between that and a few minutes of LETO'ing a character file, unless you force it upon yourself. Compare to the case of the first fairy shifter widget, which was actually a DC request. Then everyone else got it for free. Should the initial player have been refunded? |
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| Author: | Gunz [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:30 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
No. I don't think so anyway. Things have to be able to progress without having to back track to make everyone happy. Prices rise and fall in real life too. It sucks, but that's life. |
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| Author: | IronAngel [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:33 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
What's being bought and sold, how much work it takes and whether there's any profit involved are irrelevant to the core point that makes the comparison valid: you made a deal, and its terms don't change retrospectively even if it no longer seems as alluring as it did when it was made. You paid for your wings or your sweaters, you got to own them when no others could get them cheaper, and you get to keep them in the future, too. The deal the player made with the DM team was to buy a pair of wings for 50 DCs; any other factors that might change are irrelevant. As for the fairy widget example: I'm not familiar with the case myself, so I can't say what was done, if anything. It would seem decent to offer a refund, because it was essentially a private DC request and it's always lame to have your idea stolen. Such a small-scale refund could be done, because it's the nice thing to do, but not because the player would be "entitled" to a refund. The rationale of not refunding old wings can be summed up with "Why should we?" That, and we haven't refunded anything else either. (Skin changes, rebuilds, levels bought during lower profit times etc.) Either we draw an arbitrary line that will be unfair to some and favourable to others and that will be debated back and forth, or we have a clear and simple ruling. |
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| Author: | Dev Disco [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:37 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, imagine what you'd think if we charge you for stuff you already bought if the prices are ever raised again? |
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| Author: | Jan [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:42 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yeah. Points made. Consider my question sufficiently answered. |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 16:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dev Disco wrote: Well, imagine what you'd think if we charge you for stuff you already bought if the prices are ever raised again?
That'd be only fair, if we refunded when we lower prices. I bet it'd be an outrage, though. "Everyone pays the same price" is considered reasonable and fair only to a degree, when one benefits from it. |
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| Author: | Xaviera [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 18:25 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I want all those DCs back from when I bought 8 levels at 10 DC per level! Even if it was 3 years ago. Just kidding.
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| Author: | ticket [ Tue, Jun 16 2009, 23:51 PM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Xaviera wrote: I want all those DCs back from when I bought 8 levels at 10 DC per level!
:O |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Wed, Jun 17 2009, 3:18 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
Xaviera wrote: I want all those DCs back from when I bought 8 levels at 10 DC per level!
Even if it was 3 years ago. Just kidding. In MY day they got you a flat 250 XP OR 1000 GP. Be thankful it was only 10 a level! |
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| Author: | FA_Frey_XC [ Wed, Jun 17 2009, 3:38 AM ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think this is awesome. Thanks, DM's for trying to keep things real. 
Regards, |
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