// I was wandering about condor earlyer on and I found the chinese themed resturant near the nomad, made me feel real hungry so I IC bought a chicken chow mein or something, and I realised if I was RPing at the time, would I call it a chinese, an oriental style resturant, I don't know, please clear this up for me, im very confused//
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
You case in question is easy to solve, because "chineese" has a counterpart in the Forgotten Realms; it's an Kara-Turan restaurant.
But it is an interesting question, because DnD/NwN obviously tries to keep blatant earth references somewhat at bay; even if it's impossible. Basically, it's just a matter of preference where you draw the line. Commonly, you don't say "Jesus Christ!" when something crazy happens, but few would scoff if you ICly refered to a char as narcissistic, even if there never was a Narcissus in the Forgotten Realms.
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But it is an interesting question, because DnD/NwN obviously tries to keep blatant earth references somewhat at bay; even if it's impossible.
Wait, what? What Forgotten Realms have you been playing Kjetta?
There was a time when FR was a very well made, thought out and original world. But someone then decided it wasn't enough, that the world needed to be expanded. This person, or persons, had all the creativity of a pair of scissors and copy/pasted ancient Egypt and other cultures, slightly changed the spelling of some names and called the countries things like "Kara-Tur", "Mulhorand", "Maztica" and "Al-Qadim".
Blergh.
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Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
Oh, I am well aware, hehe. I meant exact, literal references. After all, they have bothered to invent a few new names here and there. Not everywhere, of course, but still.
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Well, I rather like those continents. It's not like the rest of Faerun isn't based on RL countries... they're just far more familiar to us Westerners so they seem just... normal to us.
There's Greece and the Mediterranean, there's very clear medieval kingdoms like Cormyr and Neverwinter. There's gypsies, there's Goths and there's a Scandinavia.
Maztica, Zakhara, Mulhorand and Kara-Tur just get the flak for some reason.
What really gets me about Mulhorand is that they didn't even bother going to the effort of finding the proper Egyptian names and just went ahead with the most familiar Greek versions.
EDIT: They get the flak because so little effort was put into them.
_________________ "Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
Well, I'd debate the correctness of those names you wrote there, because of the transliteration problems of Middle-Egyptian to English. And then we could start a debate which original names are correct, too. The Old Kingdom versions? The Upper or Lower Egyptian versions? Then we also have the Greek period, when the Greek names were the true names of the gods, even in Egypt.
Or: not worth worrying about. I am sad about them not including all the deities, though. Greek or Middle-Egyptian names.
We could debate the transliterations... but it's redundant since I learned to read hieroglyphics from Wallis-Budge. I am well aware that conventions have changed and that there is no "E".
BTW, I vote Asr and Ast as the correct names.
_________________ "Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Location: In an armchair, stroking a cat
Yeah yeah, all those examples above are nothing compared to this: The Shining Hand monastery in Vaasa! I'm telling you, there's not a friggin' Shining Hand monastery here!
How do the Shou fit into Forgotten Realms? They're neighbours to the Tuigan, and I've always seen them as Imperial Chinese, with the Tuigan being Mongolians. Especially because of the Dragonwall!
Are these two groups of peoples part of the Kara-Tur group? Or are they seperate?
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How do the Shou fit into Forgotten Realms? They're neighbours to the Tuigan, and I've always seen them as Imperial Chinese, with the Tuigan being Mongolians. Especially because of the Dragonwall!
Are these two groups of peoples part of the Kara-Tur group? Or are they seperate?
Kara-Tur, simply enough, is the name of a continent that mirrors mythical Asia.
As an ethnicity, I'm not sure what the term Shou encompasses. I'm heading to bed, so I can't check the books either. However, Shou Lung is the largest nation on the continent of Kara-Tur and, indeed, on the whole planet. The Endless Wastes, home of the Tuigan people, is what seperates Kara-Tur and Faerûn from eachother. (Zakhara is also connected.) I don't really consider the Wastes a part of Faerûn proper, because the Sunrise Mountains on their western edge make for an obvious natural border to the continent. I would imagine the Shou people are the racial stock of western/middle Kara-Tur, whereas the people in the east/south-east might be different.
The reason people dislike the other continents is because they're such a blatant rip-off, almost a direct translation. They weren't even designed for the Realms in the first place, AFAIK, but were "conveniently" slapped on in the exact same locations around Faerûn that Earth continents are in relation to Europe. Faerûn has some nations modelled after the real world, but it's far from a rip-off (any moreso than any fantasy), despite some of the damage TSR managed to do to the setting.
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How do the Shou fit into Forgotten Realms? They're neighbours to the Tuigan, and I've always seen them as Imperial Chinese, with the Tuigan being Mongolians. Especially because of the Dragonwall!
Are these two groups of peoples part of the Kara-Tur group? Or are they seperate?
dragonwall?
so you're telling me they even ripped off the great wall of china?
I personally dont see why taking influence from Real World countries is such a bad thing. Yes, it adds diversity. How else would we fit the katana into our game without the creation of a continent like Kara-Tur? And besides, can you really blame the creators? What kinds of influence, even from the subconscious would they have been receiving when making Faerun? They would have real world ideals, locations, etc. in their head. BUT, I do think the "Dragonwall" is just a lack of effort.
Besides, Real World countries have, in you havent noticed, been centered around conflict after conflict, be it internal or external. I think it'd be safe to bet that if we transposed Real Worldly Influenced cities/countries, that conflict would safely arrise. Also, isnt it fun to play around, acting like your from another country, somewhat similar to one in the Real World? I think it helps the roleplayers familiarize with such a fantastical world, allowing them to roleplay to their finest potential.
All in all, can you imagine cities and towns -not- influenced by the real world? Space towns, maybe. I think the only thing sketchy is the transposed cultures + locations simutaneously. But I dont need to worry about it.
We're not talking about influence, Hackums. We're talking about rather accurate geographic copying, importing complete religions (Taoism, Confucianism, Shinto and Buddhism are all present in Kara-Tur), countries named Tabot (a mountainous holy land) and Koryo (a peninsula extending from Shou Lung towards Kozakura, a Japan-themed island). If you think the Dragonwall is lazy, you should get the Kara-Tur game supplement and claw your eyes out.
The only thing that saves it is that it wasn't originally Forgotten Realms. Kara-Tur was first introduced in Oriental Adventures, as a setting for oriental roleplaying with specialized rules, races and classes. The book was written by Gary Gygax himself. Only later was it added onto Toril, when FR became the other major D&D setting next to Grayhawk.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
tao_myst wrote:
// I was wandering about condor earlyer on and I found the chinese themed resturant near the nomad, made me feel real hungry so I IC bought a chicken chow mein or something, and I realised if I was RPing at the time, would I call it a chinese, an oriental style resturant, I don't know, please clear this up for me, im very confused//
So in short there is a place called Kara-Tur in Forgotten Realms that is not *cough* China.
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