AMIA ARCHIVE :: View topic - Underdark. Other races (besides Llothite Drow) thread

Ive alwese felt the flayers are the real power in the underdark, not the drow. Drow are just to blind to know thier food.

The Underdark is getting expanded, in ways none but the developers know.

Question to developers, what if any, new settlements are being developed on B? I'd like to at least know what the settlement plans are for B-side.

... Is there enough interest by other UD players to have their characters join an Underport Militia?

Note that svirfneblin or shadow elves would also not willingly stay in an Illithid ruled city either. So we either need to put aside the FR lore and just fit the situation as it stands or ask for a change of scene completely...we could even do this IC and overthrow the Illithid and have a Council...whatever works best for everyone and the server as a whole.

Afterall, we're here to help them help us. I'm happy to play in their sand pit, but can we at least have a say in what castles get built in it?

A bustling Underport is much cooler than a few scattered and empty Underdark settlements devouted to each race, IMO.

The point is that Ultrinnan has been de facto open to other races for trade for a good while now, and I've seen a total of 1 (one) Kobold show up there. And that only because he was with his Drow mistress.

xordae wrote:

Is this true? Could I take my kobold to Ultrinnan and try to barter with the drow and expect to not get killed?

Lesquille wrote:

Is this true? Could I take my kobold to Ultrinnan and try to barter with the drow and expect to not get killed?

It's true, but consider also that some Drow loathe this change and will outright try to 1) bully you off anyways 2) make you break a law so they can whoop yo ass.

Oh noes, he's seen through our cunning plot to get new victims to pick on /sarcasm

Srsly. Chill out and grow up. We're going to approach this thing maturely. If you, and the rest of the playerbase is interested in doing the same - well the gates are open.

Drow may plot against and backstab each other, but they may not lure, lie to or exploit outsiders coming into their city? I figure they'd all jump on this like it were hotcakes.

My Drow is not gonna be cuddly with any visitors to Ultrinnan and it was meant as a fair warning that the RP down there will not be entirely harmless as an outsider.

I tend to hang around the plaza or the bazaar sometimes, but it's a game of luck whether I'll have company or not. Don't give up!

Author:	soundofastream [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 1:22 AM ]
Post subject:	Underdark. Other races (besides Llothite Drow) thread
Okie dokes, currently, there's quite a number of players who play non-llothite Underdarkers, who, seem to all hang out in Cordor or other surface areas because, either Underport is dead or they're kind of sick of having to deal with the sheer number of Llothite drow who dominate the very small UD we've got on Amia. The Underdark is getting expanded, in ways none but the developers know. The factions currently in the UD that relate include Kobolds, Duergar (Bloodbeards) and Dark Horde. Currently, the UD includes Underport and surrounds (mines, kobold cave) for other UD races. Underport is run by Illithid and includes, all non-llothites but in reality, just includes non-drow races for the most part. Question to developers, what if any, new settlements are being developed on B? I'd like to at least know what the settlement plans are for B-side, you can stay tight lipped about new monster areas, but the settlements are likely going to affect PCs directly. Depending on whatever new dynamics are being planned for B-side, if no new settlements are being planned out, then is there enough interest by other UD players to have their characters join an Underport Militia? Whilst its true that all UD races are supposed to hate each other, currently, the UD is too small for that. This might be why so many go and live on the surface (Llothite drow chase them out?). The current arrangement is similar in some ways to Grond on Arelith, where all non-llothites get dumped into a single city and must learn to live with each other. If this is the continued plan for the server, then it makes sense to organise Underport into a faction based city (just like the Dale or Cordor militia for e.g.). But if the plan is to give races their own towns and cities in the near future and Underport just remains neutral trading centre, then moves in this militia direction probably aren't warranted. Discuss.

Author:	Gunz [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 1:36 AM ]
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Aye, since the Amia Underdark is so small and Lolthites dominate, it would be pretty damn wise and likely that the non-Lolthite Drow, Kobolds, Duergar, Deep Gnomes, etc. etc. would loosely, and I mean loosely, come together to defend themselves against those damn spider kissin' freaks! Non-Ultrinnan Underdarkers unite! Woot!

Author:	soundofastream [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 2:02 AM ]
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I guess the Militia, could actually be an alliance of UD races, coming together for mutual defence, set up like a Council of groups. This is similar to how Grond worked. The militia could be loyal (or even secretly disloyal) to the Overmind, with each race having a single representative on the Underport Council who in turn answer to the illithid rulers. This way, it doesn't interfere with current factions set up along racial lines but brings them together for mutual support and defence.

Author:	Xenos [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 2:42 AM ]
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Ive alwese felt the flayers are the real power in the underdark, not the drow. Drow are just to blind to know thier food.

Author:	StandingBehindYou [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 3:07 AM ]
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Xenos wrote: Ive alwese felt the flayers are the real power in the underdark, not the drow. Drow are just to blind to know thier food. There's a mindflayer dungeon with 'flayers keeping drow as slaves, but no drow dungeon where they keep mindflayers as slaves. QED! Mindflayers were always the really scary people of the underdark. Best racial bonuses of anyone, and they used to have a plane-spanning empire and enslave basically everyone until the giths beat them... I always sort of have it in the back of my mind that if things changed it might happen again some day.

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Underdark. Other races (besides Llothite Drow) thread https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36093	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Galenson [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 3:50 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Underdark. Other races (besides Llothite Drow) thread
soundofastream wrote: The Underdark is getting expanded, in ways none but the developers know. Question to developers, what if any, new settlements are being developed on B? I'd like to at least know what the settlement plans are for B-side. My stance is "wait and see, it'll be like christmas!" I think the Devs would have the same stance. soundofastream wrote: ... Is there enough interest by other UD players to have their characters join an Underport Militia? I've always liked Underdark RP, the environment and the races to me are alot more appealing then on ground level. (There's no feys especially, it's why I like it so much!) I'm willing to do my part with my underdarker to promote RP down there. But it's hard for my character to hang around Underport for two reasons: 1) All those crazy illithid psionics and orc brains don't mix well and Orogs are smart enough to know (from the cut throat kill or be enslaved environment) that because they're physically strong, they're high on the To enslave list. 2) My character is an -extremist- follower of Ilneval (which means he's an extremist follower of Gruumsh as well) with a very extremist No pointy ear policy. Underport is full of Drow AND Illithids. I'm not going to force the other Dark Horde fellas and fellarines down into the Underdark... but I'll make my show down there when the chance arises. With the limitations though it'll be hard.

Author:	soundofastream [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 4:05 AM ]
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Wait and see is all well and good but it'd be nice if they consulted the playerbase at least a little. Afterall, we're here to help them help us. I'm happy to play in their sand pit, but can we at least have a say in what castles get built in it? Other than that, I trust them to do a stirling job. Next, Underport is a strange unusual affair. The Bloodbeards say the same thing, (due to Duergar and Illithid's past history). But then, when you think about it, this means there's next to no one who are willing to stay in Underport. That to me, is kind of sad...to say the least! What's the point of having a city that is supposed to be for the non-drow Underdarkers, when, no one wants to be there? Note that svirfneblin or shadow elves would also not willingly stay in an Illithid ruled city either. So we either need to put aside the FR lore and just fit the situation as it stands or ask for a change of scene completely...we could even do this IC and overthrow the Illithid and have a Council...whatever works best for everyone and the server as a whole.

Author:	ainjyll [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 4:13 AM ]
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soundofastream wrote: Note that svirfneblin or shadow elves would also not willingly stay in an Illithid ruled city either. So we either need to put aside the FR lore and just fit the situation as it stands or ask for a change of scene completely...we could even do this IC and overthrow the Illithid and have a Council...whatever works best for everyone and the server as a whole. That is one of the best ideas I've read on this forum in quite some time.

Author:	Galenson [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 4:23 AM ]
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soundofastream wrote: Afterall, we're here to help them help us. I'm happy to play in their sand pit, but can we at least have a say in what castles get built in it? What it comes down to is too many cooks spoil the broth (or if you're not the cooking type, too many guys spoils the club). With a playerbase this size, there are just too many opinions of opposing polarities. It's true that the playerbase CAN be a big help in the right circumstances, for Amia it's generally a hindrance because everyone has a different opinion on what they want. For example I want the extinction of fey wheras Gravemaskin or Terra would want 10x more feys then there are now. The Dev team's tight lipped nature is the only way things can operate because if they were more open, nothing would end up happening. ...I'm done derailing the thread. It's true about Underport. Duergar hate Illithids, Orogs are extremely cautious of Illithids, Svrifs avoid everyone in general, even Beholders stay away from Illithids. The only people benefitting in this instance are the Drow due to the Baenre agreement (even if it's just access to the ferries) and that most of the merchants (except for 1 squidface and 2 gnomes) are Drow. Tor'dek and I had a plan in motion but I'm putting it on hold till after the new UD comes. I want to see what's available first before jumping to (more) theoretical solutions.

Author:	Halecta [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 10:19 AM ]
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Beholders kill anything that does not look "Exactly" like them, even other Beholders. Unless a Beholder community contains a Hive Mother, in which case it controls all the other Beholders which then form a "Hive Mind"

Author:	Kjetta [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 10:24 AM ]
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I very much agree that people neet to 'bend' FR lore to make a cool community in the Underdark. There will never be 100 Smurfs or Duergar, you should be creative and find a reason to work together, rather. Just remember, this is an adventurer simulator, not a citizen simulator. Adventurers are stellar exceptions, champions, and while they should clearly be influeced by their origin, they also possess the potential to show extreme individualism. A bustling Underport is much cooler than a few scattered and empty Underdark settlements devouted to each race, IMO.

Author:	hendrack [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 10:38 AM ]
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As long as Illithids and Beholders can be smacked by every group of 2-3 wannabe epics, I laugh at the portrayal of the Underdark. A DM controlled Aboleth NPC would be awesome, to put the balance of power in the Underdark into a proper relation. Edit: I am not laughing at the UD playerbase of course

Author:	xordae [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 11:32 AM ]
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Yeah, the UD definitely needs a little more dread. But on the flipside, you don't wanna turn good (and tough) hunting grounds into unreasonably nasty ones just so people will fear Beholders like they should. People don't properly fear anything that the isle can throw at them. They won't fear the UD either. I remember back when there was Udos Dro'Xun, there were areas called the "Deeper Underdark" where hostile drow spawned (and a shadow dragon somewhere, too). These guys were naaasty. I wish they'd make an appearance again. They gave the place some flair.

Author:	hendrack [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 11:53 AM ]
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If not dreadful, at least make the bosses harder. After my last post I thought.. well yesterday we were doing the Abyss wit my wizard and an EDK. But the Abyss was beefed up a bit so at least* its a bit harder and needs more heal pots. Mindflayers are a joke to get through, and Beholders are just a matter of calculated risk in terms of how many people have the 25 or so WIL save and roll a 1, how many people have enough raises. * I realize this server is balanced for mediocre builds, but the pirate in the Alambar Sea is more of a headache than the bosses of two of the most fearsome creatures in Faerun in the friggin Underdark.

Author:	soundofastream [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 16:16 PM ]
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Ooh Disco, I could sooo have your children for giving us a smurf area! wow! Cool! Smurf's unite! Don't change your mind on that! hehe...mining, cool bananas! Okay, probably best not to upset Nehky so I guess I shouldn't have your children....but this is great news! I wonder how many more exclamation marks i can fit in one post? hmm....or should that be hmmm!

Author:	Dev Disco [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 13:51 PM ]
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We're not tight-lipped because we want to be but because I change my mind so often that you could generate electricty from it if you know where to attach the generator. It drives Cori mad, but it's how it works. At this moment we have plans for dedicated Smurph and Duergar areas combined with a huge mining complex. This would also play an important function in the ore/metal/gems part of the job system. Orogs and Orgillions will be featured as well, but I doubt they will get dedicated areas right now. The rest of the stuff we built so far are CR 2-10 hunting areas.

Author:	Daniel_Waynold [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 17:13 PM ]
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We need more underdark! I mean aresa of it! More cityes. Like Blingstone to the Deep Gnomes, and some fancy city to Duergars, named like.. Stone Deep? Or it would be nice that Duergar and Deep Gnomes would live in one city. As Deep Gnomes are experets with stone, and dwarfs are next best, I see no reason why they shouldn't have big fancy city, where they all live together without Drow or Illithids. Maybe some kobold slaves tho. x) Amyway. I would love to see more areas and cities in underdark. Now it somehow seem so... small. It is good if they are working on expanding it. smiles Any chanse Kobolds could have three or four tiny / samll areas as their home caves? One maybe near Drow City, that is completely under drow control? And I would like to see more Driders with drows. They ARE made by high priestesses, as punishment to foul drows right? And In the novel atleast they are all under their punishers control.

Author:	Kjetta [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 17:41 PM ]
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Urrrgh. I am so vehemently against spreading any city RP on even more cities I can't even begin to describe it. Remember, Amia can never host 10,000 players. We can't have a city for every goddman race. Some have to make due with RPing adventurers and not citizens.

Author:	herkles [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 17:47 PM ]
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I am also against cities to each race, I would like to see Underport sort of like Manthol Derinth((SP)) it was detailed in the Menzoberranzan source book. basicly it is a city based on trade like underport, the diffrence is that the main power groups, the drow, duergar, deep gnomes, and evil humans, stay in reletive peace, not a perfect peace mind you. They each have a section of the city that they control and trade. I hope that helps for ideas. as for how hard the UD is, well if it is a spawn it is weak and doesn't matter in plot lines, because when you get the RP and plots invovlved they get all their powers and stuff and become uber, take a look at underport, the drow can slaughter the elder brain in udos countless times, but if we were to attack underport we fail.

Author:	Kjetta [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 17:49 PM ]
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Yup. Currently, it seems Underdark have a great advantage over the surface in that the RP is realitvely focused. Would be a shame to ruin that.

Author:	xdrone561x [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 18:41 PM ]
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Kjetta wrote: A bustling Underport is much cooler than a few scattered and empty Underdark settlements devouted to each race, IMO. this for the epic win. And lets not forget those drow who have been exiled via heresy and other avenues. id love to see more interaction outside of drow town. Dont get me wrong, ultrinnan rp is amazing at times but it should never be the end all of underdark rp. There should be many groups out there, and not ones seeking to bring down the drow solely. Seriously, a bunch of underdark gnomes going in full force against a drow city? Personally i feel people should focus on creating more underdark rp vs taking down the drow population. It should be built into effect vs a crap ton of duergar, gnomes and who ever else show up on the doorstep and say hello. Build the communities amongst the player base first, build the numbers, build the rp, then go for the throat. I myself frequent underport in various pc forms. almost all of my drow go there for some reason at various points and usually absolutely no one is there. Granted timezones clash and many people could be missing each other but usually its dead as a doorknob. Lets see more shady deals going down, more merchants come through. Hell lets have a disco at the gates!!! Bottom line is before you go to war, you have to have an army. Alliances need to be set as well as trade and a plethora of other items. If people honestly want to bring forth more underdark races and rp, then by all means im excited, and feel free to pm or msn(profile) me anytime with ideas!

Author:	Iteries [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 19:07 PM ]
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I also, would like to see an expanded UD. Not announced as yet.. (we worked on this last 2 weekends) Underdark races will be welcomed to main ultrinnan city district (course be laws designed for respect). As is good lot of us like to see Ultrinnan more like the a natural state of lolth where there are many race in a sub-burb section. Using the current design we already have. If anyone actually, look at the pnp books there is a mix of all UD races in a Lolth city. Just cornered off some. Then the starting point for UD races can start off in Ultrinnan or Underport instead of Cordor or the base race of gnome/dwarves. Deep races of any kind should have 0 like of the surface just as the Drow. And especially their own surface cousins. Really sad to see a deep gnome and a deep dwarf standing in Cordor talking as a normal and complete 100% at home.. etc etc. Its as if the other UD races turned against their own nature of what they are. All honest, I have created an upgrade for the bar in Underport. An Inn of luxury >.> of baths, steam, rooms, etc. (massage palor). Yet, player submission not accepted. I apprehate that rule by the Design Team (nothing against them, I was bored one night). Do know that Underport can use a over haul and lessen the lag in the main square and reduce down the merchants. I like how they added the PC merchant stalls, but not being used since not in public for everyone to know they are open. I would switch out them stalls with a few merchants outside, like the two drow smiths for weapons and armor. Eekk.. this should have more the things to change. Many of us are still hoping that Ultrinnan itself be move to B side. expanded underdark or just have fun with new. Underport can remain ^.^ a ship back in forth as normal to there. So til next.. cya all

Author:	xordae [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 19:09 PM ]
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The point is that Ultrinnan has been de facto open to other races for trade for a good while now, and I've seen a total of 1 (one) Kobold show up there. And that only because he was with his Drow mistress. An expanded UD will not help this situation. It'll only spread out the players more.

Author:	RigorIYIortis [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 21:26 PM ]
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I'd like to see a more tradtional underdark where venturing in alone or in groups can get you lost. Where nasty creatures lurk around every corner. Where Illithid are feared and not walked humbly past. A place where "lesser races" live in fear, because they don't know the way home.

Author:	Galenson [ Mon, Mar 09 2009, 23:29 PM ]
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Drow make up the minority in Drow cities I thought with the majority of the population being other enslaved races. None-the-less, I like the idea that Ultrinnan can be a starting location for non-Drow underdarkers. Just keep RPing your hearts out and wait and see what's in store eh?

Author:	Galenson [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 0:14 AM ]
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Nooooooooo! No bath houses! Whoever heard of Orogs and Duergar bathing anyway!? soundofastream we also had a chat about that. It's true that Underdarkers don't get along with each other as crystal as surface races, it's a cut-throat world afterall of survival of the fittest. But Underdark RP is an acquired taste: Only a minority (probably 1 : 4 ) of the playerbase actually like it. On Amia, 1:4 players is roughly 16 if the server's full. 75% of them are Drow which leaves 4 or so other Underdarkers. Now, using Tordek and Oskar Bloodbeard, Driarry and Grimgor as examples we have 2 duergar, 1 svirf and an orog. If Orogs, Svirfs and duergar have their own towns then basically you're not going to get any interaction because you'll be alone. By yourself. Solo-mio. Uno. When you're alone you have two choices: leave the area or stop playing the character. It's not fair for the developers to go to all the effort of making these areas that hog up server space and produce lag if noone will use them. It's impractical to make individual towns based on provided statistics even if it's the "correct" thing to do. You're going to have to bite the bullet and share the areas in some form... be it Underport, expanded underdark hunting grounds or even Ultrinnan. I would think that all Underdark players would think the same way: we're the minority and we need to think of ways to bring the playerbase together rather then isolating them even further.

Author:	soundofastream [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 1:12 AM ]
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Just kidding about the bathhouse, lol...more like a lake or something...that you can dip in if anything... But, more importantly, back to the original discussion, I would say that there's very few dwarf players also....so the comparison to Brogdenstein also holds true. That said, some kind of Council for one city with each race having their own quarter would be fine. No need to have separate areas miles apart from each other. Just no Illithid or Llothite Drow running the show. It needs to be purely a town for non-llothite Underdarkers. The mines could be part of the duergar and svirfneblin quarter (shared resource). You could also have a quarter for non-llothite drow and shadow elves and surface races, one for greenskins and another for kobolds. That way, you get the interaction and you get the critical mass you need for RP. Sort of a Grond model, only without the Dictator and without it being a slave camp of Udos/Ultrinnan. Just a Council with each race having a single representative on it.

Author:	Galenson [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 1:28 AM ]
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Stay tight, wait and see. Solve if ICly would be the best solution.

Author:	555444333 [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 1:39 AM ]
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I vote for Skulls. That or a Dragon who terrorises them all equally.

Author:	Transcendental Templar [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 7:07 AM ]
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I'd like to see those lesser UD races interested in taking over Underport actually start showing up in the form of active PCs in the city, generating RP. If that population would then start plotting something against the mindflayers, and doing it in a smart manner, who knows, they -might- achieve something. Underport is perfectly suitable to act as a base for non-Lolthite drow UD RP in it's current state IMO, but it still remains a dead city in terms of active characters most of the time. So what I'm saying is: The current environment is suitable for RP, changes can happen, but likely won't if we don't see activity first + IC initiative for those changes.

Author:	soundofastream [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 7:21 AM ]
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IC we've been plotting and doing that by the way. Not sure if any DM has seen the numerous meetings so far in the lightless realms but its been going on quite regularly.

Author:	Lesquille [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 8:16 AM ]
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xordae wrote: The point is that Ultrinnan has been de facto open to other races for trade for a good while now, and I've seen a total of 1 (one) Kobold show up there. And that only because he was with his Drow mistress. Is this true? Could I take my kobold to Ultrinnan and try to barter with the drow and expect to not get killed?

Author:	Galenson [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 8:27 AM ]
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I'll give you points for trying? One small step for kobolds, one giant leap for RP?

Author:	Yurell [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 9:01 AM ]
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Lesquille wrote: xordae wrote: The point is that Ultrinnan has been de facto open to other races for trade for a good while now, and I've seen a total of 1 (one) Kobold show up there. And that only because he was with his Drow mistress. Is this true? Could I take my kobold to Ultrinnan and try to barter with the drow and expect to not get killed? Ummm, it would depend on your behaviour, but you stand a good chance of not being killed.

Author:	xordae [ Tue, Mar 10 2009, 9:25 AM ]
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Lesquille wrote: Is this true? Could I take my kobold to Ultrinnan and try to barter with the drow and expect to not get killed? It's true, but consider also that some Drow loathe this change and will outright try to 1) bully you off anyways 2) make you break a law so they can whoop yo ass.