AMIA ARCHIVE :: View topic - Scrolls, wands and summons question

It's not an aligment issue: the Nature summons only have two flavours: Good/Neutral and Evil. What you're seeing is a Nature/Arcane swapping

Maybe it goes by highest caster stat? If it's WIS and you're a Ranger/Druid then you summon Nature, else you summon Arcane In the event of them being equal it summons Arcane.

Do your INT and WIS trade places during the day?

It could also be that the last spell you were considered to have cast would most likely be Flame Weapon from a scroll, which stamps your character as an Arcanist. If you cast something yourself, then you're stamped as a Naturist. *coughs* I mean a caster of Nature spells.

Undress Fat German
Transmutation
Level: Clr 3, Horror 3, Torture 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One fat german
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes

You disintegrate the clothers of one fat german, anyone who sees this spectacle must pass a will save or be blinded and struck with fear.

If I might slightly hijack the post then why is it my Ranger gets alternating summons on someof her scrolls. For examplw on a ninth level scroll it is 50 / 50 as to wether she getsa Nature Elemental or an Azer. Is there any specifi reason for this as her alignment is Choatic Good?

Do your INT and WIS trade places during the day?

It could also be that the last spell you were considered to have cast would most likely be Flame Weapon from a scroll, which stamps your character as an Arcanist. If you cast something yourself, then you're stamped as a Naturist. *coughs* I mean a caster of Nature spells.

I'd been wondering whether to take one final level in Druid or Ranger. Since I'd need to actually cast a spell, I'd have to go Druid. Which, means I need to skill dump into Discipline from taking more rogue levels instead of assassin. But, with an abysmal wisdom of 8 (I think) I'd of course need to boost it up to acceptable levels with gear and stuff (easily done) in order to cast spells.

Thats because you've cast a ranger spell or summoned your animal companion.

There is some sort of "Caster Class" toggle, basically nwn remembers your last caster class.
In other words: cast any spell you can cast and the toggle will be set as the class you used to cast it.
Cast something from scroll/wand afterwards and you'll get a UMD check to see if you can use the item, then it will check if you have a caster class set to determine the outcome.
As rangers and druids are labeled together in all amian summon scripts the result is that you cast the "summon lvl #" spells as a nature caster if the toggle is set to either class.

It's all in the way UMD and using scrolls/wands is handled by NWN.
In normal NWN it just doesn't show up because no spells are split over different classes. Amia has different outcome of spell depending on class that casts it.

You can check this by taking a ranger/druid + other class (wizard or cleric or such) and alternate between:
nature spell from book
summon spell from scroll -> will be nature
arcane/divine spell from book (divine = non nature to type it easier)
summon spell from scroll -> arcane version.
nature spell from book
summon spell from scroll -> will be nature
... etc

default you will always get set as a mage, as that's the first check together with UMD if you can cast a scroll/wand. Hence you'll get the arcane summon first.

I do not know if you cast a ranger/druid only spell from scroll if it swaps your caster toggle, seems it does with your ranger.

Author:	soundofastream [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 8:44 AM ]
Post subject:	Scrolls, wands and summons question
Okay. Does the summoned critter go off the alignment of the scroll/wand creator or caster? What about the class? If the created scroll is from a Druid but cast from a rogue, what gets summoned for instance? I'm just a bit confused on this...need some help. Anyone know?

Author:	Uncle-Opustus [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 8:50 AM ]
Post subject:
Caster. For an example, a Chaotic Evil sorcerer creates a Summon Creature IV scroll for a Lawful Good paladin. If the paladin would use the scroll, he'd summon a Celestial Lioness.

Author:	Nekhy [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 9:09 AM ]
Post subject:
Spell level and spell is determined by the wand creator, but the summon itself is triggered by the alignment and class of the user. For rogues, I think it's the wizard summon, I think it's the "default". Druids get an extra check to determine their summons.

Author:	Yurell [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 9:10 AM ]
Post subject:
Goes off the caster for both scroll and wand

Author:	Uberuce [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 9:12 AM ]
Post subject:
The Alignment is always yours, but I vaguely remember that you default to summoning Arcane unless you've previously cast your own spell to summon Nature. Thus the Rogue would summon Arcane, but if he or she then took some Druid/Ranger levels and had the WIS to summon something personally, the next time they read the same type of scroll it'd summon Nature. I think. Vaguely. Maybe.

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Author:	Athyonn Ursidae [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 9:29 AM ]
Post subject:
If I might slightly hijack the post then why is it my Ranger gets alternating summons on someof her scrolls. For examplw on a ninth level scroll it is 50 / 50 as to wether she getsa Nature Elemental or an Azer. Is there any specifi reason for this as her alignment is Choatic Good?

Author:	Nekhy [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 9:42 AM ]
Post subject:
Prolly something checks the WIS bonus instead of base WIS. Unless there's a spell that raises base WIS, or you have items that lower WIS.

Author:	Uberuce [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 9:48 AM ]
Post subject:
It's not an aligment issue: the Nature summons only have two flavours: Good/Neutral and Evil. What you're seeing is a Nature/Arcane swapping Maybe it goes by highest caster stat? If it's WIS and you're a Ranger/Druid then you summon Nature, else you summon Arcane In the event of them being equal it summons Arcane. Do your INT and WIS trade places during the day? It could also be that the last spell you were considered to have cast would most likely be Flame Weapon from a scroll, which stamps your character as an Arcanist. If you cast something yourself, then you're stamped as a Naturist. coughs I mean a caster of Nature spells.

Author:	Kjetta [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 10:01 AM ]
Post subject:
Undress Fat German Transmutation Level: Clr 3, Horror 3, Torture 3 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One fat german Duration: 1 hour/level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object) Spell Resistance: Yes You disintegrate the clothers of one fat german, anyone who sees this spectacle must pass a will save or be blinded and struck with fear.

Author:	Gravemaskin [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 10:09 AM ]
Post subject:
Kjetta wrote: Undress Fat German Transmutation Level: Clr 3, Horror 3, Torture 3 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One fat german Duration: 1 hour/level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object) Spell Resistance: Yes You disintegrate the clothers of one fat german, anyone who sees this spectacle must pass a will save or be blinded and struck with fear. I highlighted the one flaw in that spell.

Author:	belgianbonzai [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 10:46 AM ]
Post subject:
Athyonn Ursidae wrote: If I might slightly hijack the post then why is it my Ranger gets alternating summons on someof her scrolls. For examplw on a ninth level scroll it is 50 / 50 as to wether she getsa Nature Elemental or an Azer. Is there any specifi reason for this as her alignment is Choatic Good? Thats because you've cast a ranger spell or summoned your animal companion. There is some sort of "Caster Class" toggle, basically nwn remembers your last caster class. In other words: cast any spell you can cast and the toggle will be set as the class you used to cast it. Cast something from scroll/wand afterwards and you'll get a UMD check to see if you can use the item, then it will check if you have a caster class set to determine the outcome. As rangers and druids are labeled together in all amian summon scripts the result is that you cast the "summon lvl #" spells as a nature caster if the toggle is set to either class. It's all in the way UMD and using scrolls/wands is handled by NWN. In normal NWN it just doesn't show up because no spells are split over different classes. Amia has different outcome of spell depending on class that casts it. You can check this by taking a ranger/druid + other class (wizard or cleric or such) and alternate between: nature spell from book summon spell from scroll -> will be nature arcane/divine spell from book (divine = non nature to type it easier) summon spell from scroll -> arcane version. nature spell from book summon spell from scroll -> will be nature ... etc default you will always get set as a mage, as that's the first check together with UMD if you can cast a scroll/wand. Hence you'll get the arcane summon first. I do not know if you cast a ranger/druid only spell from scroll if it swaps your caster toggle, seems it does with your ranger.

Author:	swe_west_coast [ Fri, Jan 16 2009, 16:37 PM ]
Post subject:
Uberuce wrote: Do your INT and WIS trade places during the day? It could also be that the last spell you were considered to have cast would most likely be Flame Weapon from a scroll, which stamps your character as an Arcanist. If you cast something yourself, then you're stamped as a Naturist. coughs I mean a caster of Nature spells. I got intrigued, Uberuce use to know what he's talking about. I do have a ranger 7/ rogue 1/ assassin 9, meaning that I have no arcane levels at all but some nature due to the ranger levels, with INT 18 and WIS 12 as standard when out and hunting. I can't throw any ranger spells yet though but with some summon level VII scrolls that I bought in Castle Viltun, I summon a helm horror due to my chaotic evil alignment. I always have done that too, and that piece of a tin can can't even stand up aganst a bunch of werewolves before getting ripped apart. If the summon depends on last thrown spell, I would have more use for a nature based monster instead. So I bought a couple of "Blood Frenzy" scrolls in the grove, druid level 2, to check this out. Theory: If I throw a blood frenzy spell first (druid spell, making me a naturist), I should get a Manticore instead of the useless helm horror (arcane) when using a Summon Creature VII scroll. It wasn't true. After throwing a blood frenzy, I still get a helm horror, even if I use that scroll while the blood frenzy is still in place. From this experiment, I think the summon you get (nature based or arcane) is solely based on if you have intelligence or wisdom as your highest stat. I had not threwn any assassin based invisibility/improved invisibility/ghostly visage or darkness spells prior to the test, nor had I used any other scroll or spell like ability from any item I have. Edit, and then I start to wonder, "why can't I use spells?" and after checking, I can actualy use two level 1 spells/day. New test. I slept and then threw a "Camouflage" spell on me (druid/ranger only) and after that, I used a summon creature VII scroll. I had absolutely no other buffs on me. And violá, a manticore appeared. It seems as if throwing spells from a scroll doesn't change anything, but the last used spell you know from memory change you between arcane and nature.

Author:	soundofastream [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 1:01 AM ]
Post subject:
Ahhh right, well, my character wants to regularly summon a Spawn of Moander. It fits with the whole Ghaunadaur thingy. From scrolls of course. I'd been wondering whether to take one final level in Druid or Ranger. Since I'd need to actually cast a spell, I'd have to go Druid. Which, means I need to skill dump into Discipline from taking more rogue levels instead of assassin. But, with an abysmal wisdom of 8 (I think) I'd of course need to boost it up to acceptable levels with gear and stuff (easily done) in order to cast spells. I'd of course, be able to reskin her animal companion to a jelly of some type too but it'd be purely for show (given its a crappy level 1 summons). I am guessing that I'm not allowed to request a DC item that allows a level 8 summons once/day or something? That would mean I wouldn't need to bend over backwards to try and summon one as is the current arrangement as a rogue/assassin/1 level of nature based something class. If that's possible then I'd be overjoyed and would save up the DCs instead to get such a device.

Author:	herkles [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 1:10 AM ]
Post subject:
I wonder if there is a way to script it, say via a widget or something for a person to use the nature list instead of the arcane list and vice versa.

Author:	MoshingChris [ Mon, Jan 19 2009, 13:04 PM ]
Post subject:
Could it? More a question pointed at Terra i suspect. Would make a tad more sense then the current adding +ability/skills to a bunch of outsiders.

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Author:	TormakSaber [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 2:09 AM ]
Post subject:
Level 8 spell is doable.

Author:	soundofastream [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 3:23 AM ]
Post subject:
Okay, i'll go the DC item route then. Thanks! Would this mean I'd still need to take a level of druid or would ranger still work? In order for it to turn into a spawn of moander critter? That is, would I have to still be able to cast nature/divine spells for it to happen or do I just need the nature class in general?

Author:	TormakSaber [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 3:24 AM ]
Post subject:
I'm not sure.

Author:	swe_west_coast [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 10:03 AM ]
Post subject:
soundofastream wrote: I'd been wondering whether to take one final level in Druid or Ranger. Since I'd need to actually cast a spell, I'd have to go Druid. Which, means I need to skill dump into Discipline from taking more rogue levels instead of assassin. But, with an abysmal wisdom of 8 (I think) I'd of course need to boost it up to acceptable levels with gear and stuff (easily done) in order to cast spells. You must have an unmodified wisdom of t least 11 to be able to use a level 1 druid spell. You must be at least level 6 ranger and have a wisdom of at least 11 to throw a level 1 ranger spell. It doesn't matter how many wisdom raising items you put on your toon, if the unmodified wisdom is 8, you'll never be able to throw a spell, even if the modified wisdom is 20.

Author:	ticket [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 11:10 AM ]
Post subject:
belgianbonzai wrote: Thats because you've cast a ranger spell or summoned your animal companion. There is some sort of "Caster Class" toggle, basically nwn remembers your last caster class. In other words: cast any spell you can cast and the toggle will be set as the class you used to cast it. Cast something from scroll/wand afterwards and you'll get a UMD check to see if you can use the item, then it will check if you have a caster class set to determine the outcome. As rangers and druids are labeled together in all amian summon scripts the result is that you cast the "summon lvl #" spells as a nature caster if the toggle is set to either class. It's all in the way UMD and using scrolls/wands is handled by NWN. In normal NWN it just doesn't show up because no spells are split over different classes. Amia has different outcome of spell depending on class that casts it. You can check this by taking a ranger/druid + other class (wizard or cleric or such) and alternate between: nature spell from book summon spell from scroll -> will be nature arcane/divine spell from book (divine = non nature to type it easier) summon spell from scroll -> arcane version. nature spell from book summon spell from scroll -> will be nature ... etc default you will always get set as a mage, as that's the first check together with UMD if you can cast a scroll/wand. Hence you'll get the arcane summon first. I do not know if you cast a ranger/druid only spell from scroll if it swaps your caster toggle, seems it does with your ranger. I too have been wandering why my ranger bard was getting different type of summons through scrolls. Yous explanation matches my experience... it is when I start calling my animal companion that my summon scrolls changes to nature type. Very informative, thanks.

Author:	belgianbonzai [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 13:36 PM ]
Post subject:
soundofastream wrote: I'd been wondering whether to take one final level in Druid or Ranger. Since I'd need to actually cast a spell, I'd have to go Druid. Which, means I need to skill dump into Discipline from taking more rogue levels instead of assassin. But, with an abysmal wisdom of 8 (I think) I'd of course need to boost it up to acceptable levels with gear and stuff (easily done) in order to cast spells. You need base wisdom of 11 to cast druid spells lvl 1. Maybe not cantrips, you'll need to check that... (you can do it offline)

Author:	Melcen [ Sat, Jan 17 2009, 13:51 PM ]
Post subject:
This was also the case with my shifter: wondered why sometimes a helmed horror would appear instead of the animal. Thankye!

Author:	MoshingChris [ Sun, Jan 18 2009, 2:17 AM ]
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You know what would be rad though. . .Animal domain on a cleric summoning the druid line unless it already does and I am miles behind the times.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Sun, Jan 18 2009, 3:05 AM ]
Post subject:
It doesn't.

Author:	belgianbonzai [ Mon, Jan 19 2009, 13:43 PM ]
Post subject:
It could, but it shouldn't. Druid summons are not supposed to be fully cleric or mage buffed by the caster. They are supposed to have slightly better stats then the arcane versions because druids buffing options... well... they suck in comparison. Off course, you can argue that you can summon from scroll but that's also the point: scroll summons are weaker then regular ones. (dispell etc)