AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark III

TormakSaber wrote:

Standard dexer AC:

10 + 14/15 (from dex mod) +4 (armor) +4 (deflect) +4 (natural) +5 (dodge) +2 (armor skin) +6 (tunmble) +1 (dodge Feat) = 51 AC/52 AC. +4 haste = 56, +1 mage armor = 57, Divine Shield can take that to 67 if you're charisma based, or bard song will get you there too and if you start finding +5 gear you'll break 70 AC. And that's not even including using a shield which is anywhere from +4 to +8 more AC depending.

Not entirely true.
Dexmodifier can't go more than 1 more point for me. (max 12p) and since the best cloth armor I've seen around also is +4 it would make a status quo.
+4 armor=yes,
+4 deflection=yes
+4 natural=yes
+5 dodge??? no, the best boots I've seen are +4 (except cleric only ones) and maybe you can get +5 boots with DC coins but I dont consider that "ordinary" boots.
+6 tumble = tumble dump with another class. You'll get +1 AC from tumble for every 5p. +6 = tumble 30. Maximum points for a ranger (character level + 3) / 2) are 17 since it's a cross class skill = AC + 3, not AC +6. These meager 3 extra points in AC will also cost 34 skillpoints. Hardly worth it considering that I'll loose it when flatfooted anyway. A better idea would be to put it in the healing skill instead.
+1 AC with dodge feat =I took favoured enemy instead. My bad.
+2 armor skin = I took favoured enemy instead. My bad.
+4 haste = there are no perma haste items around in Amia, so it lasts too short time to even consider when you drink potions.
+1 mage armor= +1 dodge AC, yes. I didn't even think about that one. I just need som item that I can use that have the spell longer than 1 turn.
Divine shield = only for clerics, black guards and paladins.
Bard song = must be in party with a bard.
+8 tower shield??? Where can I buy that one? Since I based the AC on items possible to buy in shops, I assume there is a shop selling +8 tower shields since you mentioned that one. Or is that also a DC item?

In all through your explanation, I could get 3p AC from tumble, 2p from armor skin, 1p from mage armor and 1p (against one opponent) from "Dodge" feat raising the AC 7 points. Everything else depends on support from bards (song) or wizards (extended haste), using DC items or cross classing the character (cleric/black guard/paladin).

One other way could be to invest in the "Expertise" feat and gaining 5p AC there. A fighterbuild can take that lower AB.

There's +5Boots in some shops. ((cannot tell where, tormak will delete the post)) But if you ask In game about it, most people will be friendly and direct you to it.

+8 Towershield = +5Enchantment and +3 From the "base shield ac" = +8. But a +5 Towershield is quite rare. Finding a +4Towershield is easy tho.

The mythal crafting system could 'possibly' add some Mage armor Spells on an item, with 1/day use. But i don't know how long it would last. You are probably better off buying a "fighters friend", a +4 necklace from a shop in the XXXXX.

swe_west_coast wrote:

+5 dodge??? no, the best boots I've seen are +4 (except cleric only ones) and maybe you can get +5 boots with DC coins but I dont consider that "ordinary" boots.

+8 tower shield??? Where can I buy that one? Since I based the AC on items possible to buy in shops, I assume there is a shop selling +8 tower shields since you mentioned that one. Or is that also a DC item?

+5AC / +3DEX / monk only boots (or UMD off course) are the boots near every dexbase has on the server as they are for sale in a shop, not even epic loot.

+8 shield = +3 from tower shield, +5 bonus AC

Tumble etc.
On amia a Standard build has a UMD or Tumble dump class by now.
Fact that you don't take one on your ranger is completely up to your choice, but on amia you're not really "standard" anymore in that way, even though you are a pureclass.

edit: ninja'd by the licking kitty

Is Ninjaaa. ::Does a Flip-kick, and falls over::

belgianbonzai wrote:

Tumble etc.
On amia a Standard build has a UMD or Tumble dump class by now.
Fact that you don't take one on your ranger is completely up to your choice, but on amia you're not really "standard" anymore in that way, even though you are a pureclass.

Then I have to ask the DM:s in Amia, is this the way it should be in a RP server? Is the "normal" character the one with at least one level bard/rogue/assassin/harper scout/monk/shadowdancer? Not due to RP reasons, but only because the enemies around in the world have such awesome AB at the same time as it is more or less impossible to get an AC to counter it if you don't multiclass and skill dump in tumble?

Wouldn't a better way to go to:
A: Nerf tumble to give maximum say 1p AC /10p tumble and lower the AB on the moster.
B: Put in more and better gear to raise the AC especially for the fighter classes. There are sure strike/wonderforged +5 weapons around, why not put in it's equal in armor? The same goes with +5 amulet of natural armor, +5 boots that aren't monk/UMD only, +5 cloak of deflection and so on.

A fact is that the different magic using classes can self buff their AC or damage reduction, just as in the original NWN campaign. The dexterity based classes have their tumble to help them survive, just as in the original NWN campaign. The fighter classes had a lot better gear in the original NWN campaign to survive in epic levels. What's happened in Amia is that the fighter classes need to be multiclassed with other classes to survive, because the equipment they should have to survive is missing. +4 plate mail is for level 12 fighters. +8 plate mail is for epic fighters. When the +8 plate mail isn't to be found, you must rely on something else, tumble dump, UMD for scrolls and so on.

Are there any builds where a PDK is actually useful other than RP?

Swe_West_Coast, You should bring those suggestionst to the "improve amia" Section,

And regarding the Purple Dragon knight class... Well. I do think they're 'only' good for RP, honestly. The Extra Daily uses they get aren't really ...overpowered.
It's more of a fun addition.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Swe_West_Coast, You should bring those suggestionst to the "improve amia" Section,

And regarding the Purple Dragon knight class... Well. I do think they're 'only' good for RP, honestly. The Extra Daily uses they get aren't really ...overpowered.
It's more of a fun addition.

I think the PDK could be altered on Amia to actually offer a little bit more variety in all honesty.

For instance, remove the Ride skill requirement and mounted combat requirement, allow them to lvl more than 5 levels, (say 10-15?). And offer them some Epic Feats and maybe alter the bonus skills/feats a little bit.

I'm not sure if that would require a HakPak to do or not though. It's been a long time since I've done PrC-alterations.

Oh right, I forgot about that post I made on the Imp sneak attack or Blinding speed due to my evul internet, thanks for the answers - Imp sneak it is.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Swe_West_Coast, You should bring those suggestionst to the "improve amia" Section,

That sounds like a fine idea, I'll do so.

Jyro X wrote:

Are there any builds where a PDK is actually useful other than RP?

27 bard 1 pdk 2 rogue....
evasion, shit load of skill points, every party's wet dream
pick all locks, perform sexy like, disarm traps, remove traps, set traps, etc etc lol....

You can give....
+6 ab and ac
-6 enemy ab and ac
+4 ac haste
+1 mage armor dodge ac
improved invis
To entire party...
+4 ac to 1 lucky person

It makes for the best sycophant

makes 1 person awesome.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Jyro X wrote:

Are there any builds where a PDK is actually useful other than RP?

27 bard 1 pdk 2 rogue....
evasion, (censored) load of skill points, every party's wet dream
pick all locks, perform sexy like, disarm traps, remove traps, set traps, etc etc lol....

You can give....
+6 ab and ac
-6 enemy ab and ac
+4 ac haste
+1 mage armor dodge ac
improved invis
To entire party...
+4 ac to 1 lucky person

It makes for the best sycophant

makes 1 person awesome.

I came up with a Devcritting 23Bard,2Fighter,5PurpleDK.

1 Fighter Pre.Epic to get Martial arts, and Wep.Focus Longsword,
And 1 Fighter Epic, taking the extra Feat into Epic.Weapon Focus Longsword.

It fits the RP And build also, One would become a fighter before attempting the road of a Purple Dragon knight.

dev crit is gay, get over it. pdk is all about charisma and supporting others... the 5 levels are a waste, those other skills dont last long enough, only good for staged pvp or bosses imho

Noooh. Leave my 5 Levels of Purple dragon knight alone! I want them!

swe_west_coast wrote:

Often I wonder how to get those über values of AC in Amia, like the 67 mentioned here. I have a level 29 pure ranger myself and I have serious problem surviving solo.

[...]

The question is how I should do to raise the AC without diluting the character with other classes. I want him to be pure. If the answer is "there is no way to do that", then it's the same as saying that Amia is a server for powerbuilders if you want to go to epic levels. The only reason that I have gotten this high level is the spire (solo or in parties I found there) and hunting beholders (very profitable even at level 29, aberration is a good choice of favoured enemy for epic rangers as long as I make the saves against death). All other epic areas, besides Yuan-Ti and Brog orcs if those are to be called epical, are impossible to solo with this pure ranger.

51 AC. It's the AC of a toon with a full plate, tower shield, +5 boots, armor skin, and tumble 30. It is true that there is no way for a pure ranger to reach such an AC unless the ranger go DEX, carry a tower shield, and invest points in tumble. But your conclusion that this fact makes Amia a server for powerbuilders is quite wrong.

Around a year ago, when I first started playing NWN & Amia (had a recommended fighter that died every round), I too frustratingly thought that one needs to have a powerbuild in Amia if one wants to 'beat' Amia. Now, after having seen most of Amia and understood the mechanics of NWN more, I can say that my earlier hardships was simply caused by me - mostly for ignoring my toon's gear & not knowing my toon's role.

Since you already seem to know how to equip your toon, I think your main problem lies in trying to solo in the first place. Even if the pure ranger has 30 AC, who cares? Rangers combined with their pet(s) can out-damage every other class in Amia. Embrace it, exploit it!

One of the most important thing I've realized in Amia is that, AC is overrated. This realization freed me to really enjoy and appreciate the module and the different classes.

Anyways sorry for being too preachy. Now, let me try to give you some ideas that could hopefully help your ranger's solo-prowess & survivability:
1. Companions. The more companions you have the less damage you yourself take and the more damage you dish out. I think it was Uce who said that for every additional body taking enemy flak, you gain about +5 to your AC. Rangers got their nasty nasty pet and even has the option to grab a local wildlife with Animal Empathy - that's +10 effective AC right there. Buff your pet with your spells, potions, and the special kick ass Amian items for extra oomph.
2. Concealment. Misty potions would basically increase you & your companions' lives by 5-10%; additionally, it gives +1/5- damage reduction too. If you could, try to get improved invisibility potions. When traveling with a caster, you ought to demand this if the caster didn't cast it on you & your pet(s) already. I would also probably rate improved invisibility as an additional +5 AC minimum.
3. CON & DR gear. Get +12 CON for an extra 180HP on top of the many damage reductions, damage resistances, and damage immunities gear & potions you can find in the module and you've probably extended your survivability by 50% more.
4. Disablers - KD. This is pretty much obvious so I'll just say that if in case you weren't able to fit in a disabler feat in your toon's build, you could easily use a ring of ram to get KD. There's hardly no reason not to use it.
5. +5 boots. There's only one shop your ranger could buy one, it's a DM shop. I once suggested to make +5 boots more universal but it got muddled I think, so until then your best hope is to buy one from the caravan.

Easiest thing to do though is to simply party up.

Amia isn't a server meant for powerbuilders, though surely powerbuilds make things easier and arguably more boring. I think that's just an unintended consequence though because from my point of view, Amia is server that's balanced for parties.

Edit: Oh, and reaching über AC can be done a number of ways. Usually it's reachable by a mix of classes that can self-buff. Basically you'd need a combo that could max out the dodge AC cap or get very near it - easily done with divine shield, haste, bard song, epic mage armor, stacked mage armors, etc.

67 AC - 20 AC (Dodge AC) and you get a base of 47 AC, a much more attainable number especially with epic gear. Other big sources of extra AC is monk AC, Pale Master AC, tumble AC, epic mage armor, magic vestments, etc.

This is a grass is greener type of situation.

If you wanna be a pure lvl 30 ranger, good on you. But ultimately nerfing everyone to be on par with a very basic build is going to not fly. Nor would tailoring the module to it.. It'd make multiclass builds too destructive.

I have a 25 ranger 4 fighter 1 rogue... I can solo anywhere except manor/abyss/ and that place with the celestials&demons on A....

I do have dev crit but it does not trigger often enough to even make it worthwhile. You have a pet that never misses, the character sheet says like 45-50 ab I think, but if you watch the ticker its more more like 62+ ab from what I seen. It hits hard. You as a ranger have decent AB, you hit hard, you have free +5 weapons that are keen, more abilitity points for your own gear to mythral up. You have a lot of skill points (kinda) and a fair number of feats.

You are a damage cannon.
With Rikkudai and Khan I am pretty sure I can outdamage 95 pct of server, as ticket said. I dual wield so I run around with less AC then normal and rarely have issues. Just AE a pet, dont be cheap by a IX scroll if you have to, buff your pets, and take off!

Most people have themselves so 4 attacks a round... You have pet, with haste, thats another 4 attacks a round. Ability to dual wield sexy like even as a str based bastard, thats another 2 attacks a round. You got 10 attacks there, and with properly chosen Favored Enemies/Bane of Enemies, things just fall over.

Pigeon ,you have too pm me that build! ,please! I think my chars due a re-lvl

PM it to me too. Lol. I suck at building rangers and/or AA's.

I will see If I can figure it out, it takes a lot of micro management. Also if there is anyway to view the old forums its in there somewheres lol...

21 levels of ranger, 4 levels fighter, 3 levels ranger, 1 level rogue, 1 level ranger....

Tuigan
Str maxed
Dex 7
Con 10
Intel 14
Wis 14
Cha min

Tumble and UMD dump
Focus on disciple, spot, heal, ae

blindfight, cleave, armorskin, baneof enemies, craft wand, dev crit, ewf hammer, wf hammer, ews hammer, great cleave, imp crit,kd, ikd, power attack, overwhelm crit, wf, ws

Personally I found the dev crit to not be as valuable with the x3 hammer... So I'd drop great cleave, overwhelm, and dev, pick up, epic discipline, epic fort, and something else?

I'd vote taking either epic prowess or epic will/reflex. Unless you want to take epic skill focus (Enter RP skill here), which would be good too.

Hey, guys.

If you want to roleplay a human cultural subrace, I highly encourage you to swagger over to the FR wiki, or some other resource if you're unsure of what it means exactly.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Hey, guys.

If you want to roleplay a human cultural subrace, I highly encourage you to swagger over to the FR wiki, or some other resource if you're unsure of what it means exactly.

That's usually my first stop and then I do my best to hold my character within those boundaries.

I'm usually corrected by "more well-informed" characters in-game as well. It helps to develop my knowledge base.

GreatPigeon wrote:

...a pet that never misses, the character sheet says like 45-50 ab I think, but if you watch the ticker its more more like 62+ ab from what I seen....

Good lord...

Yes, a pure range or pure druid's pets are basiccally as good as having a WM in your party at all times if it's the direwolf, boar, or bear.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Hey, guys.

If you want to roleplay a human cultural subrace, I highly encourage you to swagger over to the FR wiki, or some other resource if you're unsure of what it means exactly.

Yes! Thats why Rikku is a an orphan

With tons of RP backign that.. I love it sooo muches

The downside is poor AC (40s range) as druids don't get all that many AC buffs. Worse if you're a ranger.

Yes, This is why you have AE and if you want use a monster scroll... regardless you have you, the pet, and super AE pet... so about 1k hit points. The lack of hp and saves do infact hinder a lot of things though.

Lack of HP and saves? Easily buffed con + high natural wisdom = you have high fort and high will. Ta da.

I think the fort save on Khan is still only in the high 20s. Dev Crit by bosses.... Guess its not so bad...

The only other bad thing is that I have to say is that they get glitched quite often and get stuck on things, or will be attacked and doing nothing...

But In parties and Im sure people can back me up, My piggy will outdamage WMs (well so will my character). And I will leave parties when there is 5 of us and I cant keep my piggy

Only in PvP does it suck to not have great AC for Rangers because, usually, they can stealth around, let their pets do the fighting and flank the enemy after they've engaged...

That's where the Dev. Critter takes out the Ranger in most cases...in PvP. In PvM, Rangers and Druids own.

I lead the charge in every thing with my piggy, dual wielding hammers. Philosophy kill before I take damage.

Anyways... well there's the build have fun, cant remember anymore details then that.

TormakSaber wrote:

Yes, a pure range or pure druid's pets are basiccally as good as having a WM in your party at all times if it's the direwolf, boar, or bear.

62ab is far better than most fighter builds can ever hope to achieve. Those pets are far too good. Especially seeing as how the wizards summons got weakened (which was a good thing). Funnily enough, the strongest wizard summon relative to its level is summon creature 1. It just gets worse and worse from there. Animal companions/familars hopefully are next. They are near immune in the early levels as well.

Might some of you buildmonkeys point out one of those tricksy sneaker builds?

One of the ones that has HiPS and high hide/ms to go with it. I'd alao like said build to have decent damage and AC so it doesn't get pummeled very easily.
Maybe something along the lines of a rogue/SD with Epic Dodge?

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

62ab is far better than most fighter builds can ever hope to achieve. Those pets are far too good. Especially seeing as how the wizards summons got weakened (which was a good thing). Funnily enough, the strongest wizard summon relative to its level is summon creature 1. It just gets worse and worse from there. Animal companions/familars hopefully are next. They are near immune in the early levels as well.

But unlike wizards, rangers do not get epic spells, instant death spells, mass haste etc and other goodiness. Nor are they rendered useless by the banishment and dismissal spells, they can always summon another summon.

Ofcourse, if we went 3.5 with rangers and gave them more skill points, high fort and ref saves, evasion, endurance, HiPS, improved spell list etc, I'd go along with a nerf of the companions.

Rangers need their pets, even more so the druids. A druid without the pet is... quite useless, mostly.

As for ranger builds its quite simple; get as many ranger levels as possible, adjust accordingly. You cant go wrong with many ranger levels.

QPR wrote:

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

62ab is far better than most fighter builds can ever hope to achieve. Those pets are far too good. Especially seeing as how the wizards summons got weakened (which was a good thing). Funnily enough, the strongest wizard summon relative to its level is summon creature 1. It just gets worse and worse from there. Animal companions/familars hopefully are next. They are near immune in the early levels as well.

But unlike wizards, rangers do not get epic spells, instant death spells, mass haste etc and other goodiness. Nor are they rendered useless by the banishment and dismissal spells, they can always summon another summon.

Ofcourse, if we went 3.5 with rangers and gave them more skill points, high fort and ref saves, evasion, endurance, HiPS, improved spell list etc, I'd go along with a nerf of the companions.

Rangers need their pets, even more so the druids. A druid without the pet is... quite useless, mostly.

Not saying get rid of the pet. Just saying it shouldnt have a 62ab and be on par with WM. 40ish would be just fine. Heck the EDK has 40 unbuffed which drops due to excessive use of power attack. Wizard summons are no longer all that anymore (at least at the higher levels). Animal companions should go the same way. Druids and rangers are far from useless without their pets.

Yes 3.5 rangers would be nice.

The Ranger pets are fine, without them nobody would play a ranger, and there is no problem beating a rangers pet in pvp. Its ridicously easy. Any class, any character should be able to beat a rangers pet without trying.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Just saying it shouldnt have a 62ab and be on par with WM.

62AB is nonsense. A druid magic buffed bear has 50AB.

Arcane/divine summons are ridiculously easy to beat. I dont see that as a valid argument. Nobody is saying get rid of the pets. Shaving off a few Ab points of the worst offenders wouldnt be the end of the rangers world. 50 odd is a bit much.

Anyway, I doubt the animal companions will ever get brought into line so its a moot point.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Just saying it shouldnt have a 62ab and be on par with WM.

62AB is nonsense. A druid magic buffed bear has 50AB.

Dont beleive the character sheets

Khan. Boar from a level 25 ranger, After becoming ferocious has a top AB of 55 ( I beleive)

GreatPigeon wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Just saying it shouldnt have a 62ab and be on par with WM.

62AB is nonsense. A druid magic buffed bear has 50AB.

Dont beleive the character sheets

Khan. Boar from a level 25 ranger, After becoming ferocious has a top AB of 55 ( I beleive)

My Boar topped out at 61AB on a near pure Ranger (28/1/1) that was ferocious, prayered, bard buffed, aid, bless. So yeah your nonsense is your lack of taking into account all possible buffs.

SO yeah Pidge = correct.

Dramatic = Wrong.

MoshingChris wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Just saying it shouldnt have a 62ab and be on par with WM.

62AB is nonsense. A druid magic buffed bear has 50AB.

Dont beleive the character sheets

Khan. Boar from a level 25 ranger, After becoming ferocious has a top AB of 55 ( I beleive)

My Boar topped out at 61AB on a near pure Ranger (28/1/1) that was ferocious, prayered, bard buffed, aid, bless. So yeah your nonsense is your lack of taking into account all possible buffs.

SO yeah Pidge = correct.

Dramatic = Wrong.

I was indeed talking about druid buffs only.
But if you happen to conveniently have bards and clerics in tow with you, whoopee :lol:

Even without bard ab is at 55 on a level 25 pet... A level 30 pet would have 1 point of ab per 2 levels... so 26, 28, 30... 58 ab.. This is with all ranger buffs only and potions.

Looking for a crossbower. Ideas?

That's really vague. Cleric? fighter? Rogue? assassin?

A cleric would work, I guess. I'm mostly looking for a sniper, more or less. As much hurt via crossbow as possible, in as short a time as possible.

Crossbow Cleric - Talk to Kjetta, he has the coolest crossbow using cleric... EVER....

Talk about Paladins/CoT/PDK 19/6/5 Would that the be best mix? Plan would be to possibly make and roleplay as like a Helmite or one of the militant good guys. Make the guy roleplay towards being a leader or troop trainer, the drill sargeant if you will. Not having to worry about being the badass of the church.

The 19-20 paladin difference is 1 fort save and 1 cast of a 4th level spell. the extra CoT makes up for the save, but unsure if you need all the extra 4th level spells. Not played a pally much. Plan would be to be Human, Aasimar maybe by dropping 1 level of something or other.

Envision I have is not of the solo knight, I am badass, here me run off and be awesome. I would like see it as a battle lord or what I kind of envsion Knight Templar to be like?

Falling Spider wrote:

A cleric would work, I guess. I'm mostly looking for a sniper, more or less. As much hurt via crossbow as possible, in as short a time as possible.

"I'm 'boring' but I do good damage all day long": Ranger 23/fighter 4/rogue 3. Epic wep spec and favored enemies. Spot dumps. Evasion. UMD/tumble. minor sneaks. Semi tank pet. Hawk gets cool points.

"Sniper? What do you mean? Sneak attack ends at 30 feet!": 11 rogue/19 assassin, or 29 rogue/1 x (or 30 rogue). Massive sneak attacks, with range. MASSIVE. SNEAKS.

"Hang on let me buff. Then I'm a golden god": Cleric 25/Fighter 4/Monk 1. The monk is admittedly for skilldumps and tumble and "kosher UMD". Sub for rogue or bard or something if you want. High bard works for this as well. Clerics can go Zen Archery too.

"You'll never take me alive, coppers!": 30 monk. Monks have crossbow proficiency, right? Anyways. That's more of a joke build tha anything.

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