..A powerbuild is a build made using mechanics that either do not fit the character or mechanics/classes that are just not even RPed at all. On another note people are going to just go however much SD it takes to get HipS. Nothing wrong with people having a strong(er) build. But avoiding the RP required is another matter IMO.

Whether people take more than six is up to them.

One of the purposes of having the build topic is to advise people on how to build their character, knowing what they will be giving up if they take X levels instead of Y. It's not to say that they should take no more than Z of something or their character will be crap.

The change to Shadow Evade was the duration, it's now a round per shadowdancer level. If you want to take more than six to increase the duration, or effects, that's up to you.

Oberoni.

As far as my tastes, as previously stated, I could care less about PVP, which is what people will carry on about regarding most of the build changes you guys make. You will find that many people have a "have to win" attitude about PVP or sometimes RP in general, but I am not among them.

The changes dont affect PVE much for anyone who wasnt abusing it as previously stated. It can be used as an escape mechanism, but not a "I no longer need to pay attention to AC" mechanism. Gaming a slow AI to never be hit is hilarious. My whole point is that there are many other feats that are abused in this fashion. Hilarity would ensue if all were tagged with a 6 second cooldown, which they should be. Games that use a global cooldown are usually far more balanced than those which do not. NWN is no exception.

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"You"? "Your"??

This sounds a bit personal to me, as if I was being accused of abusing the feat, or somehow sought a power compensation personally as a result of the loss, so to clear up any misunderstandings...

I've never used HIPS on Amia, in all my years of playing here, and none of my builds are affected negatively by the change to HIPS, on the contrary, they are affected positively as it can no longer be abused. I planned to make an sd mage kobold once upon a time, but never finished him or leveled him to that point. I like to play caster classes, notably sorcerers.

"Boo hoo"?, I guess that means it had nothing to do with any of those implied reasons as was more my balance assessment based on how likely people were to go above lvl6 in sd. The fact an ulterior motive was implied offends me to a degree.

Hope that clears the confusion, and pray we keep things on the issue.

Normally I don't go this far out of my way to post in this manner, but it's a recurring toxic theme I've been seeing in multiple posts across the forums. Instead of using pure logic, analyzing the validity of the argument based on the points, some switch to attacking the person and accusing them personally to derail the topic. It does nothing for the server environment but in actuality discourages people from posting anything controversial or anything in general, ...because they know someone is going to unnecessarily attack them personally. As a result the server looses some potential constructive discussion, and a potential healthy positive environment.

DMs/Developers/Players it's all inclusive, I've seen it from all sides over a period of years. I didn't like it then, and I don't now.

I still hope sd's above level 6 get an effective upgrade, if HIPS is too strong now to allow for one, I get it, I really do, perhaps lower the effectiveness of it yet again if it allows you to strengthen dancers above sd6. (It's something to consider) Perhaps another counter move that only works if they have six or less sd levels? It can be done many different ways.

As for the topic, I've said all I needed to, every point I wanted to make was made. I'll let others continue if they wish, and let this drift into the past.

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

Its fairly common knowledge that when a DM or Dev says You/Your/You're he is referring to the playerbase in general.

You post prior to the one you quoter, Alkor, was laden with arrogance and egoism that suggested you in fact were more knowledgeable than Selmak, Tormak, Sune and Myself or had any insight into the arguments to be made against this. In fact I am going to say one thing.

Stop being a hypocrit. And that was directed at you, Alkor.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

In the post before the last, I admit being to being cheeky when I get a two line reply to paragraphs of information, which involves steak and eggs.... It's like... "what do I do with that? / how does that logically relate to the topic?" I pointed it out and said it didn't relate. That is not a personal attack.

If you(collective to all previous mentioned) take the position that the daze effect is more useful than I believe and have seen it to be time and again over the years, well...that's your call. I've stated my opinion on it previously. If that comes across as arrogant, and that I know better....well, that's your view and so be it. Let's let (virtual) reality decide. It will be as it will be. I have my viewpoint and you have yours. If given no further upgrades are applied then: Check the sd ratio of those at lvl6 compared to those above lvl6 in a few months time(or years if you wish), and note if there is a noticeable difference.

My most recent post is referring to the perceived accusation that there was some ulterior motive behind my arguing in defense of making shadow dancers beyond lvl6 stronger. That I was somehow just defending them to get stronger. There was none. If indeed the 'you/your' was not directed at me, then perhaps I've overreacted to something that wasn't directed at me, in that case, my apologies, however, it is not hypocritical to say what was said, especially if it 'was' directed at me.

Dismissing steak and eggs, and restating my position on the topic, is not a personal accusation of wrongful intent.
I don't see that as hypocritical as I did not personally discredit any of you, I targeted the argument itself, if I thought the argument was weak I pointed it out, and in this case, implied for more detail.

The point you do have Mosh, is that I think this will play out IG much as it always has, with the vast majority of sds at lvl6, because the change in my opinion is minor at best. If that comes across as arrogant to make that statement because you(and perhaps others mentioned) believe otherwise, then there you have me, I disagree with your opinion on this issue. As I said, our opinions do, in this case, become irrelevant when it comes to the game itself ...we will see in time who was right.


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Short Version:
I wasn't being hypocritical, due to no personal attacks.
Fight the argument not the person.
Disagreeing with someone on an issue is not 'bad' or personally directed, nor does it imply arrogance. People 'can' disagree. Does one imply they know better than the other for disagreeing? ..in a sense, that is the stuff of nearly every argument in existence. It is only as strong as the argument and its reasons. Defeat the reasons, defeat the argument, and you might find the person changes their point of view. In this case, time will tell if the change was enough.

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.