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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 26 2009, 15:18 PM 



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Joined: 12 Feb 2008

ClockworkRed wrote:
i don't understand what the problem is?

What kind of cliques do you talk about? Factions? They always welcome new members. I want to play with the Banite clique. I make a Banite PC, join their group, watch them play and find out how I can contribute. Then I start crawling up whatever ladder of hierarchry they have established. Eternal order? I make a Kelemvorite that actually doesn't like undead. Elfs? I make an elf who worships the Seldarine and doesn't like drow.

Or you want to play a separate PC and want to interact with these groups. Easiet way, PK one of their members. Always gets you involved.



I don't think that he was speaking about faction....and actually I think that we all know that he is right.


 
      
Dakotaen
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 26 2009, 15:37 PM 

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Dev Disco wrote:
The German way of making friends: kill all other options. :D


Germany: We don't make friends, we take them.

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Nekhy
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 26 2009, 15:51 PM 



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There's cliques, always will be where humans are involved. They're not a problem per se, but can become a problem, certainly.

I don't really think it's only cliques of some popular players that get to do things on Amia, who get to influence. Well, at least it's not intentionally so. DMs don't know everybody's friendships and associations, so those who get to do the "big things" are selected pretty randomly based on their activity and participation over any other factors. Some people tend to be more active and take part into more things than others, so they get to do more stuff in events.

This will, of course, favour a certain part of the playerbase... but I am not sure if these events would ever get anywhere if it wasn't the active players pushing them forwards. It's a sort of a "blind social selection", I guess.

It's a favoured clique anybody can be part of, in the end. Get active, participate and you're in.


 
      
Garnith
 
PostPosted: Thu, Oct 29 2009, 11:24 AM 

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Bye Incognitos! Hopefully you'll decide to come back soon. A break always does one good.

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soundofastream
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 30 2009, 0:21 AM 

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Joined: 21 Sep 2007

The Incognitos wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:

*looks around for evidence*

I see a changed Cordor. A destroyed Shadowflame Manor. A changed Khem. An expanded Caraigh. A very narrowly escaping burning Amia Forest. A renovated Skull Crags. A being-built Casino. A splinter gambling orgnaization based off that.

That's not counting the gamut of mechanical changes that probably shouldn't count, like balancing, etc.

The status quo changes like it always does. You could say that change is the status quo.


I should also clarify that I am not trying to detract or undermine the value of the work the DM and Design team put in. I think the scope of effort made is one of the things that keeps people playing Amia.

What am am citing is a prevailing attitude regarding the perceived value of one players contribution over another. Frankly, many of those examples you listed back up what I've said about some established players displaying an often unconscious or unintended disdain for what they perceive to be 'lesser' RPers.

I would say that the vast majority of people who have posted here (and I thank you all for your well wishes) are not 'that' kind of player, at least not intentionally. But the core factor remains; if you are a part of the setting as well as a character in it then you have a responsibility to interact with the wider server community. If you do not then you and your character should be removed from any position of authority in the 'story', which is what Amia is.

It is here that the ugly face of Amia's cliques come to the fore. If you've been around long enough and are well known then it is highly unlikely that 'divine intervention' will step in, mainly because the problem I believe is there isn't seen as a problem by many people, as has been demonstrated by some of the replies in this thread.

Yes, it may be the safe way to handle things from the perspective of keeping organizations considered important to the setting stable is concerned, but it is also a great way to cause stagnation and foster arrogance and exclusivity.

Again, this is not intended as an attack on any one person or group, specifically I am not making a veiled attack on DMs and this post should not be read as such. It is an issue of wider 'server-culture' and this is why I have decided to retire from NwN instead of sending a simple PM asking why a specific interest group is being so cliquey.

So, lathandier, you are right in a sense. Cliques do exist through the perception of others and I believe you have surmised the attitude I have been speaking of; "If newbies or whoever are too timid to just RP with someone and get involved, then it's their problem". Now, if the clique doesn't actually see them self as being exclusive and are passively or unknowingly excluding people then the problem cannot be solved, it is hence inherit in the setting. Now we see the violence inherit in the system...


But *sniff sniff* we need Krunk! :(

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CMSgt
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 30 2009, 2:45 AM 



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Joined: 27 Oct 2009

Hello everyone! I am a new player here and I would like to comment on this post. It seems from my experience (which is quite a few other persistent worlds) that cliques inherently exist and decrease the overall pleasure of a role-playing server if they start undermining the RPs of others. Anyway, don't do that, it's not fare at all and no one wins. Anyway, I look forward to seeing you all in game. Also, I play an elf named Teth Keller when I am on, but when I'm not online—which is most of the time—I'm studying. Later!


 
      
Wyjyn
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 30 2009, 2:47 AM 

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Does anyone consider me to be in an OOC clique? Besides the clique of awesome, population one.

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Dev Disco
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 30 2009, 10:32 AM 

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HRM Chicken I of Amia

Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam

No, you are having arguments with everybody, I suspect you even have arguments with yourself if no suitable victim comes along.

:P

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Wyjyn
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 30 2009, 15:57 PM 

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Dev Disco wrote:
No, you are having arguments with everybody, I suspect you even have arguments with yourself if no suitable victim comes along.

:P


Everyone needs the occasional challenge!

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GreatPigeon
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 30 2009, 16:37 PM 

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Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK

I be-lee, be-lee, be-lee thats all folks!

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Charles1810
 
PostPosted: Fri, Oct 30 2009, 23:00 PM 

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This reminds me of high school with cliques. One of my teachers back in the day got tired of it and did an experiment, he took 1 member of each group and placed them in another clique. What happened is the same thing that would happen here. Some people and pcs can move freely between different cliques while others would be shunned or dismissed or ignored. I said people or pcs because you can be accepted into a clique icly or occly with being friends or even friendly with people occ.

My point is that clique will be there and nothing can or will ever change that. Will certain people and or pcs be able to enter and become part of that clique yes, does that clique have cliques that they are friendly to and cliques that they hate yes. If you really want to see a interesting reaction create a new login name and try to enter that clique that you couldn't before for whatever reason and tada. . . you now have more friends most dms have no issue with swapping dcs from one account to another.

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P Three
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 31 2009, 0:23 AM 

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Joined: 18 Dec 2008

Wyjyn wrote:
Dev Disco wrote:
No, you are having arguments with everybody, I suspect you even have arguments with yourself if no suitable victim comes along.

:P


Everyone needs the occasional challenge!


And no one's as challenged...

Dammit, that's so bad I can't even finish it.

<3

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Selvec Darkon
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 31 2009, 9:17 AM 

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Had a lot of stuff refering to my campiagn last year to try and get certain people to look at the issues and not pass them off as another one of "those complaints". But I've decided to just settle with this;

Certain people are to comfortable in their postions of power. Self policing or not. Same complaint I had with DM rewards.

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Dakotaen
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 31 2009, 9:46 AM 

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Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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AxlLeigh wrote:
Wyjyn wrote:
Dev Disco wrote:
No, you are having arguments with everybody, I suspect you even have arguments with yourself if no suitable victim comes along.

:P


Everyone needs the occasional challenge!


And no one's as challenged...

Dammit, that's so bad I can't even finish it.

<3


Let it simmer. It's not all bad, you'll see. :twisted:


Oh, and Selvec, the complaint you had with DM Rewards (assuming you mean their "paycheck" for being DMs) is being worked on, as far as I know. In both cases. In one, they even found a solution, though if I might add, a brief one I hope.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 31 2009, 10:18 AM 

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It's not the solution he wants. We still get DCs.

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Dakotaen
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 31 2009, 10:42 AM 

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That's the part still being looked into! :D

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Selvec Darkon
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 01 2009, 4:52 AM 

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Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

Fact is, you can like it or lump it. No matter what is said, you've made your opinion known. If nothing changes, you have three choices. Either bitch more (Likely to just make people annoyed), Ignore the issue and try to simply enjoy the things you do like about the server, or do as Jess has done and leave.

I chose the first one for a time, then the second one.

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"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"


 
      
TeroSNS
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 01 2009, 11:13 AM 

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Joined: 26 Jan 2009

I think I am going away too, haven't played in a while and I have been trying to get a hold onto nwn2 and the expansions. Also becouse my own computer tends to crash the game once in a while makes me lose my passion for the game -.-

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