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sharanmonkey wrote:

Heroes are supposed to be epic! Killing armies of demons and gods is what dnd is about, not about common farmers tending their fields. :roll:

most npc's in fearun never come above level 20..i dont really have a problem with the level restriction on this server, i sorta just pretend that we are not as epic as elminster or Simbul, but i would sitll prefer a max on level say..15 or 20, that would put the levels more in range of what is a high level fearun hero, not to mention it would make the real big npc's seem all the more powerfull..but thats just my oppion..oh and a restriction to 15 or 20..really kills off most powerbuilds aswell hehe

im cool with it either way...

Not that I'm invested one way or the other in the overall conversation, but I think it sounds pretty cool to make a level 20 cap with 30 reachable only via DC leveling. That would allow those who are positive models (debatable as DCs are not necessarily a reflection of ability) to progress beyond a level of those that do not choose to engage in the furthering of the Amian experience.

krytellan wrote:

Not that I'm invested one way or the other in the overall conversation, but I think it sounds pretty cool to make a level 20 cap with 30 reachable only via DC leveling.

I foresee a weekly thread about DM bias and favoritism if ever that goes through.

ticket wrote:

krytellan wrote:

Not that I'm invested one way or the other in the overall conversation, but I think it sounds pretty cool to make a level 20 cap with 30 reachable only via DC leveling.

I foresee a weekly thread about DM bias and favoritism if ever that goes through.

Yep. Same goes for levels granted directly by DMs.

Yossarin wrote:

ticket wrote:

krytellan wrote:

Not that I'm invested one way or the other in the overall conversation, but I think it sounds pretty cool to make a level 20 cap with 30 reachable only via DC leveling.

I foresee a weekly thread about DM bias and favoritism if ever that goes through.

Yep. Same goes for levels granted directly by DMs.

Which I thought could be another alternative to becoming epic: PCs that participated on DM plots and performed epic deeds.

It would never work on Amia. There will always be accusations of favoritism.

The only current downside that I see with having characters above epic, is writing stories when they go to the mainland.

For Amia, there is no problem with the current level ranges. Well, there might be. But anyone who plays PnP does know that Amia is an extraordinary place to live in. :wink:

It's all a matter of perspective.

It is a rather interesting idea.... putting a cap at a certain level and earning your last few levels via DC's or some other more RP-based method. Some servers have had such leveling systems in place. Lot3K was one, if I remember correctly. I agree with Dahlya, though. Sadly, I don't think such a method would work too well on Amia as it stands now. Perhaps if it had been implemented that way from the start, it would be different. Yet, as things stand now there would only be two choice is such was implemented. 1.) Everyone over the cap is stripped of their levels and placed at 1 exp away from the cap. 2.) All existing epics are grandfathered in and any new characters suddenly have a restriction placed on them. Neither of these options is rather fair to its respective player base.

At present people reach epic so quickly because there are monsters on tap all day every day.

If you want to change that, you're going to face a lot of opposition from people who like the convenience of being able to go to whichever place they want and kill stuff.

If you don't want to change that, then deal with the inevitability that most people aren't going to slow down and enjoy the scenery. Most people won't use their Examine tool on carefully-described areas. So either as a developer or a player, you have to accept that you have to use such embellishments only where they'll be appreciated most.

You can't accomplish anything by sitting on the fence with this one.

Last edited by DoomKnight on Tue, Oct 06 2009, 4:27 AM, edited 1 time in total.

What i see here is that some people think the epics are overpowered and we need to nerf nerf nerf, it seems that this is everyones answer to the problems of the world, but is it? >_> <_<

Actually, I honeslty am uncertain what Shrine of Eilistraee Fiasco you speak of.

krytellan wrote:

Not that I'm invested one way or the other in the overall conversation, but I think it sounds pretty cool to make a level 20 cap with 30 reachable only via DC leveling. That would allow those who are positive models (debatable as DCs are not necessarily a reflection of ability) to progress beyond a level of those that do not choose to engage in the furthering of the Amian experience.

When you get 24/7 constant DM coverage

You lost to a bunch of Black Caravan NPCs who through months of RP were established on the server as "Don't bother trying to outmuscle them, there is a 99% chance of straight death, don't be stupid".

It's not a fiasco, you straight up failed and died. Assuming that is, in fact, what you're referring to. The rest of it was hammered out in the aftermath to an acceptable outcome to all involve,d or so I was told, and if there are still grievances then frankly you need to let them go and stop holding a grudge over the event and move on.

TormakSaber wrote:

You lost to a bunch of Black Caravan NPCs who through months of RP were established on the server as "Don't bother trying to outmuscle them, there is a 99% chance of straight death, don't be stupid".

It's not a fiasco, you straight up failed and died. Assuming that is, in fact, what you're referring to. The rest of it was hammered out in the aftermath to an acceptable outcome to all involve,d or so I was told, and if there are still grievances then frankly you need to let them go and stop holding a grudge over the event and move on.

Tormak, don't try and raise that argument again, there were mistakes on both sides and trying to blame one will only result in arguments hence why I ignored the post).

Tell the dude who started off complaining about the "Eili Shrine Fiasco", not me, yo.

TormakSaber wrote:

Tell the dude who started off complaining about the "Eili Shrine Fiasco", not me, yo.

Well, let's all drop this thing and have it forgotten together, instead of trying our best to claw open old wounds.
Please.

Here's my perspective, and I'm just a nobody who hasn't posted enough times to brag about it in their avatar - the developers of Amia have designed this server based on a balance perspective, with RP and action in mind, whether it be maxing toons out at level 15 or 40, it doesn't matter, it is still balanced and offers a fun and interesting environment for us to play in.

Epicness on Amia seems less a matter of high levels but more of earning an IC reputation.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

ClockworkRed wrote:

Epicness on Amia seems less a matter of high levels but more of earning an IC reputation.

Very, very true.

Epic is non existent...because everyone is Epic.

I'd wager there are more level 30's out there then lvl 3's....and THAT is the problem.

It's so easy to achieve epic lvl 30, I'm almost willing to wager that every player has a lvl 30 tucked away.

On Arelith, lvling is tough.....but a Lvl 30 is no joke...and since the server isn't flooded with lvl 30's, chances of you finding equal opposition and not feeling Epic are SLIM. However, I've been playing Arelith for nine months now and I am BARELY reaching Epic(after nine Months!).

Amia is te exact opposite. Lvling is simple(a lvl or more per day). Epics ARE not Epic at all. Being a lvl 30 means nil in the face of the NPCs AND the many other lvl 30's running rampant on Amia.

What I'd suggest is a middle ground. Lessen the XP gain from creatures by half, and at the least...it'd take you two days to lvl up instead of a single night. Honestly as I see it ANY level below 30 means squat.

Example:

Ultrinnan's/Udos' rank system of Sorcere. You got the lowest, Zhaunins. The middle rank, M'elzar, and the higher rank, Faern...and then the Archmage.

Both Arelith and Amia have these ranks......however:

In Arelith the lower ranks actually have meaning. A player who makes Zhaunin on Arelith will be happy, and they will push around every commoner/not of an academy drow they find.

In Amia, leveling is so quick you fly right by the ranks. The ranks are meaningless and unused. The only real rank structure in Ultrinnan is Female Clergy, Academy leaders.......then everyone else in a huge melting pot. SO what you get is a mage who four days into starting their character, tries to be Ul'faeruk....and sometimes succeeds!

In arelith every level matters as you have to claw your way to the top, the negative being that when you die or fall.....it REALLY...REALLY sucks and the tough leveling can be sometimes discouraging.

I believe more people choose Amia over Arelith solely for that reason.....easy leveling.

But honestly....with all the work you DMs and Dev team put into this server(I watched it evolve from small towns to large cities), Is it asking too much to make actually getting to lvl 30 somewhat MORE of challenge?

Of course don't make it as tough as Arelith...but as I said....a middle ground.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

In Amia, leveling is so quick you fly right by the ranks. The ranks are meaningless and unused. The only real rank structure in Ultrinnan is Female Clergy, Academy leaders.......then everyone else in a huge melting pot. SO what you get is a mge who four days into starting their character, tries to be Ul'faeruk....and sometimes succeeds!

Have you tried playing drow? Because that is simply wrong.

Sorry Yurell....I've been playing a drow FOR YEARS....

I've been around Ultrinnan for the longest, and not once did I ever see the lesser ranks have any real meaning at all....except in the temple.

In fact....rarely...if ever...does a player claim ranks such as M'elzar, Zhaunin, or Sargtlin.....and even then the amount of time in said ranks is so minimal it's almost not perceptible.

So actually I not only play drow....that's ALL I play...and I'm not sure...but I think I've been here longer than you as well.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

Sorry Yurell....I've been playing a drow FOR YEARS....

I've been around Ultrinnan for the longest, and not once did I ever see the lesser ranks have any real meaning at all....except in the temple.

In fact....rarely...if ever...does a player claim ranks such as M'elzar, Zhaunin, or Sargtlin.....and even then the amount of time in said ranks is so minimal it's almost not perceptible.

So actually I not only play drow....that's ALL I play...and I'm not sure...but I think I've been here longer than you as well.

Then perhaps you can tell me who became the Ul'faeruk in four days?

Actually it has been done before...but I can't remember the name honestly because it was long ago. I exaggerated on the four days thing but honestly it was like a week or two.

In any case as far as Ultrinnan goes, it has become so underused I don't even use it as a home point anymore for ANY of my characters. Some are actually still Lolthite...but it's gotten so boring down there I rarely even visit it anymore.

By the way I remember a name of someone who made it in the ranks so fast it was ridiculous.

As much as I hate the character, and I am VERY happy the player of the character(the cause of most of my Amia problems) is gone, Vos'ayne became Ul'saruk in a matter of like two weeks....became a slave trader(a reason why slave RP has such strict rules and is frowned upon basically) and then one day the player jumped on the forums, screamed a mess over the RP problems with slaves, acted a fool, and either left or was banned(hopefully the latter).

In any event...yes...he made Ul'saruk within a couple weeks of making his character. We both started at the same time. I was playing Quar'agh, who at the time was insane and spent every waking hour in the Wastelands with the rats and bats. Meanwhile Vos'ayne hunted to death when he wasn't hanging around some stalagmites that used to be in the center of town. After he'd hunt continuously...he'd hang around rocks right near where everyone would port to....and thrust himself at everyone who ported in.

Outside of the phenominal amount of grief this character caused me, he showed me how quickly a dedicated grinder can reach lvl 30 when playing a 9rdd/1bard/18 barb.

To get promoted in the Sorcere to even Faern you need to know a lot about the Weave ... it's not just what level you are. And in the past two years, I'd have to say the standard of RP required to become Ul'faeruk is a lot more than powerfarmer then you're there.

If that is the case now, then good.

However...it still won't mean much..because there are tons of other lvl 30 mages. In the end being called Ul'faeruk in Amia just DOES NOT carry the same weight as it would in Arelith.

Remember now....I never said Arelith was better......a middle ground...somewhere in between Arelith and Amia....would be THE PERFECT SERVER.

Arelith suffers from the exact opposite of Amia. Hardly anyone reaches lvl 30 and may give up trying through the process.......BUT the lvl 30s are treated with VAST amounts of respect.

In Amia it's like "So what I'm lvl 30 too...and so are the three standing next to me."

There simply isn't any Epicness because there are too many epics.

I don't know how ranks are treated on Arelith, but from what I've seen of both the Sorcere and the Temple (having reached the highest non-commander rank in both) RP is far more important than level (or even rank) when it comes to the amount of respect you get. Why should level be important? Surely it's the RP that matters?

Ahh but you see it does matter. No amount of good RP will save you when someone challenges you to a duel(the main way Drow ranks are handed over).

In Areith...unlike Amia in this instance, You'll NEVER find a lvl 30 who is also a horrid RP'r because they would have been killed before they reached lvl 30. On Amia YOU DO get lvl 30's who ARE horrible RPrs, because all they do is grind until they hit lvl 30...then pester anyone weaker(of course they sometimes get removed). All they need is an RP excuse(not hard to make one up).

To agree with you though I will say this: RP matters...of course. But so does lvl.

No lvl 1 will be Ulfaeruk..no matter how good his RP is.

On Arelith I currently play the Ambassador of Udos. I play on both servers now....switching between my Ambassador in Arelith and Quar'agh, or Morf on Amia.

On Arelith my lvl 20 Drow mage gets more respect, fealty, and fear then ANY of my characters on Amia.

Certainly yes...good RP helped with that. BUT...also because not every other character is even a lvl 20, Pharyx Drak'aa(Ambassador) gets respect. Quar'agh or Morf or anyone on Amia will not, simply because every other player is maxed out...knows it...and is not terribly afraid since there's also no loss upon death. Those factors add up to pretty much make Epic in Amia feel rather UN epic.

I felt like that, and that is why I made Jhae cheese. How much PvP have I been in since then? Once or twice ... all I have ever seen is the need for RP, not powerbuilding.

Edit: I like the fact that level is unimportant.

I agree with you on that Yurell. I come on to Amia(and Arelith) for ONLY that. RP.

Now mind you none of my characters are powerbuilds(I have no idea how to build a superior character...but I can make a decent build).

However(and this is why I am even responding to this thread so heavily), other people do know how to powerbuild, and they do.

In Amia powerbuilding has become so prevalent there's a huge whopping thread on it. That combined with easily lvling causes it to be easier to have cases of griefing and bad RPrs(actually make that bad players...there's no such thing as bad RPrs, if they RP, that's good enough).

If you play a cheese, then you know how much it sucks sometimes to be in the middle of good RP, then to have a powerbuild come up and say "die drow" and shut whatever RP you had going down.

Not much to do with the problem if Amia wants to keep its openess and friendliness towards new players. I used to play on The Three Kingdoms when it was still up, where there was a hard cap on 20 and 30 that one needed DM approval to pass, as well as a soft cap that prevented you from getting more than x levels within y days, Death penalties were quite harsh as well. Sure, it helped the atmosphere, people feared death, and those who were epic, were epic. On the other hand, there was always talk of favouritisme, people who were not noticed because of DM coverage etc.

Balancing fun and epicness is a very fine line, and Amia does a good job at it, even though I would prefer to see slower leveling overall. But that I can do myself without needing rules for it in the first place.

As a casual player.. I like that I can get somewhere on this server. I used to play on Bonds of Blood where a casual player like myself couldn't get past lvl 9 in a year. -_- I did try Arelith but I decided here for two reasons... the lag is better here and I am not fighting with more than half the server to kill kobolds. Low exp is great and all.. but I disliked 10+ people in one place to kill 5 monsters. I like the layout here better, I feel people here are friendlier and welcoming. I don't care about raging up to max level but I have noticed that most - important roleplay is at higher levels. To me -important- is faction/group based , political.

The only thing I would maybe change is balancing the exp though out the same level mobs... as a new player I have to go alone to all the rest of the places no one wants to adventure to because the 'xp is bad'. I get tired seeing the same places over and over. I guess this is more of a player problem because it makes sense that Lizard men are harder than pirates.

Boo on that- all pirates should be beyond epic!

-end of friendly rant-

Quote:

Balancing fun and epicness is a very fine line, and Amia does a good job at it, even though I would prefer to see slower leveling overall. But that I can do myself without needing rules for it in the first place.

Exactly.

No offense to Arelith, but how they do things really has no bearing on how we do things. You do seem to enjoy Arelith quite a bit more than Amia, given your near constant rants about how badly Amia does things and how well Arelith does them, and so I suggest you remain there, in as friendly a manner as it is possible to suggest. After all, it's your free time and you should probably enjoy it.

I see nothing wrong with "epicness" being a matter of deeds and of reputation than a number on a sheet.

I think, personally, the way arelith's death system is done up, people's respect and fear becomes an OOC function and an extreme dislike of easily losing hard-to-get progress than it ic any true IC action. That's my take on it. Character don't fear your mage because they fear your mage... they fear him because if they piss you off, you deck them and they've lost 3 days worth of XP, just on death, nevermind if they need to respawn.

QPR wrote:

Not much to do with the problem if Amia wants to keep its openess and friendliness towards new players. I used to play on The Three Kingdoms when it was still up, where there was a hard cap on 20 and 30 that one needed DM approval to pass, as well as a soft cap that prevented you from getting more than x levels within y days, Death penalties were quite harsh as well. Sure, it helped the atmosphere, people feared death, and those who were epic, were epic. On the other hand, there was always talk of favouritisme, people who were not noticed because of DM coverage etc.

Balancing fun and epicness is a very fine line, and Amia does a good job at it, even though I would prefer to see slower leveling overall. But that I can do myself without needing rules for it in the first place.

I still consider Three Kingdoms the best RP server I've ever played on.

I LOVED the soft cap, but hated the epic cap.

Because... a lot of the Three Kingdoms DM's were complete shit, and there was in fact favouritism on the server. I know people who had epics on Three Kingdoms, and they've got plenty of stories to tell on that topic.

Anywho, the soft cap in particular was very nice, since it pretty much forced you to start RP'ing your character, rather than just monsterbash for 2 weeks straight until you were level 30.

It developed your character and got you involved in a shitload of fun RP (since there were always plenty of others who had been temporarily capped as well, and weren't out killing mobsters, but rather tried to find RP opportunities).

7'th September 2007 I wrote this:

Mr Mago wrote:

Soippe wrote:

*suggestion* /cap xp allowed per day! say maybe 7000/day . . .

I think that's an awesome idea. I -really- do.

Time-based caps on gaining xp allows for people to actually do some OTHER than hunt -constantly-, once they've reached their cap for the day/week or whatever suits.

That allows for people to steer away from their monsterbashing obsession and instead find PCs to interract with.

A big quirk I have with the server atm, is how damn difficult it is to find another PC which you can RP with. There's usually 4-7 PCs at the Cordor Square. Yet that RP is more than often a direct simulation of a chat room, rather than a Faerun RP enviroment.

Where are all the other PCs?

My guess that they're either:

1. Fondling each other in the bathhouse
2. Idling in the entry (*cough cough*

)
3. Having a private conversation in a secluded area
4. Hunting

My guess is that 85% of the playerbase goes into #4, unfortunally.

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=311787

(Good read in regards of this topic)

I'm still in favour of an XP cap (not a DM based one though) being added to Amia.

But that likely won't ever happen... since these days, pretty much the entire server consists of powergamers and powerbuilders (although the majority of them tend to be quite good RP'ers).

I didnt want to interdouce a debate on restricting max levels to a lower amount. I also didnt wish to debate if one goes up too fast or too slow on amia.

The suggestion was to remove the overburden of epicness that makes any awesome powerful race become as common as a giggle in cordor. Smaller dragons for edk and tone down the amount of huge demons you slaughter by the hundreds.

I prefer the opposite: In DM events, I make *bigger* dragons, and *bigger* demons, and all around more threatening things and the stuff you fight on a daily basis looks like crap in comparison.

Nothing wrong with homebrew. The Actand chaps were pulled out of Disco's arse, and and the Frozen Waste freakshow fell sideways out of mine. If the DM staff want sillystrong monsters, I don't see why they have to be limited by anything other than the last miniscule traces of mercy and human decency that may linger somewhere in the jaded scorched wastelands of their collective soul.

TormakSaber wrote:

I prefer the opposite: In DM events, I make *bigger* dragons, and *bigger* demons, and all around more threatening things and the stuff you fight on a daily basis looks like crap in comparison.

Key words there being DM events.

I think what Phaernun is trying to say is that the server, by default, should have smaller dragons and such. That way, when the DM's break out the big guns for their events, it makes everything seem that much larger.

I'm not averse to the idea of a soft cap (so many levels per day), to be honest ... it won't affect me in the slightest, though.

ainjyll wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

I prefer the opposite: In DM events, I make *bigger* dragons, and *bigger* demons, and all around more threatening things and the stuff you fight on a daily basis looks like crap in comparison.

Key words there being DM events.

I think what Phaernun is trying to say is that the server, by default, should have smaller dragons and such. That way, when the DM's break out the big guns for their events, it makes everything seem that much larger.

I think it's better to exaggerate the new achievements than to diminish the old ones, to be honest.

I would like to see adventures go the way of Aertheca. I know one of your ex-Dev. team used to play there as well. The way they did their epic bosses, was brilliant, it really -was- an epic fight that lasted many minutes, if not over an hour in a few instances. Epic bosses, have heal potions or scripts on Aertheca, which makes killing them that much tougher.

Sadly, Aertheca lacks a good admin/DM team so I won't play there anymore.

Also, building in epic quests into the quest function is another thing from that server that would work here well. In fact, it'd work better here. A quest that you have to find different objects, scattered around different epicy areas, really would be funtastic. Maybe you need to solve several hard puzzles and take down say 5 different epic bosses to get to the epic store.

I like the powerlevel of monsters, but I still think all the bosses on Amia are far too weak. It should take a full party of the right levels, about 5 minutes to 10 minutes of an epic fight to take one down on average (e.g., like it does in the Illithid lair) with a 50/50 chance of winning or losing the battle. Bosses with heal spells or potions would be ideal too, just to make it even more fun. Epics should have to use their millions of potions they have stored away to fight the bosses (which helps drain them of gold + items).

I'd like to see some of the epic bosses here use some of the PvP tools players use (Bigby's Forceful Hand, Wail of the Banshee, Greater Spell Mantle, Mords, etc) just to make the fight a real challenge.

I really love the HIPSing White Hand Assassins, they're cool! More of those kind of things on Epic Bosses would be grand.

Amia is funtastic, but I just wish Epic Boss fights were truly a showdown of epic proportions.

soundofastream wrote:

I would like to see adventures go the way of Aertheca. I know one of your ex-Dev. team used to play there as well. The way they did their epic bosses, was brilliant, it really -was- an epic fight that lasted many minutes, if not over an hour in a few instances. Epic bosses, have heal potions or scripts on Aertheca, which makes killing them that much tougher.

Sadly, Aertheca lacks a good admin/DM team so I won't play there anymore.

Also, building in epic quests into the quest function is another thing from that server that would work here well. In fact, it'd work better here. A quest that you have to find different objects, scattered around different epicy areas, really would be funtastic. Maybe you need to solve several hard puzzles and take down say 5 different epic bosses to get to the epic store.

I like the powerlevel of monsters, but I still think all the bosses on Amia are far too weak. It should take a full party of the right levels, about 5 minutes to 10 minutes of an epic fight to take one down on average (e.g., like it does in the Illithid lair) with a 50/50 chance of winning or losing the battle. Bosses with heal spells or potions would be ideal too, just to make it even more fun. Epics should have to use their millions of potions they have stored away to fight the bosses (which helps drain them of gold + items).

I'd like to see some of the epic bosses here use some of the PvP tools players use (Bigby's Forceful Hand, Wail of the Banshee, Greater Spell Mantle, Mords, etc) just to make the fight a real challenge.

I really love the HIPSing White Hand Assassins, they're cool! More of those kind of things on Epic Bosses would be grand.

Amia is funtastic, but I just wish Epic Boss fights were truly a showdown of epic proportions.

I swear, you already mentioned this at least twice.

And, as usual, the reply to that, unless if the Staff's stance changed, would be:

"Just because it worked there, it will not work here."

Which part of that statement you still did not process?

/rant

BlackDahlya wrote:

I swear, you already mentioned this at least twice.

And, as usual, the reply to that, unless if the Staff's stance changed, would be:

"Just because it worked there, it will not work here."

Which part of that statement you still did not process?

/rant

For my own rant, the fact that it did work there doesn't mean it won't work elsewhere.

For that to happen you need to remove Dev Crit from the server or make every boss immune to critical hits, thus making weaponmasters, general meleers, and sneak attackers nigh useless. Neither is an attractive option but it's the only way to get rid of the "roll a 1 and the 10 minute fight is over".

Not to mention, getting 6-10 people together for a half hour "raid" is... well. NWN is not as active a combat system most of the time, as say WoW is. I can't imagine it's much fun for tanks to sit and whack at a creature with 50k HP that heals twice uninterruptably... And for mages to twiddle their thumbs in GS since they blew all their spells...

Yurell wrote:

BlackDahlya wrote:

I swear, you already mentioned this at least twice.

And, as usual, the reply to that, unless if the Staff's stance changed, would be:

"Just because it worked there, it will not work here."

Which part of that statement you still did not process?

/rant

For my own rant, the fact that it did work there doesn't mean it won't work elsewhere.

I even remember Tormie's answer, very similar to the one posted above. ((He made his post when I was writing mine and I saw his reply when I hit preview))

What I meant to say with that, Yurell, was that SoaS already made one such suggestion and was already told, as Tormie repeated above, why it would not work on Amia.

Or, at least, why this is not something they think need readjusting for a select few people's preferences.

EDIT: I am unsure if epic means fighting a tough boss for a long time or simply a good plotline. There are many ways to define "epic" not only the one people see with reaching level 21 and beyond.

Every single player, I bet, has their own idea of what would be something truly epic.

TormakSaber wrote:

For that to happen you need to remove Dev Crit from the server or make every boss immune to critical hits, thus making weaponmasters, general meleers, and sneak attackers nigh useless. Neither is an attractive option but it's the only way to get rid of the "roll a 1 and the 10 minute fight is over".

Not to mention, getting 6-10 people together for a half hour "raid" is... well. NWN is not as active a combat system most of the time, as say WoW is. I can't imagine it's much fun for tanks to sit and whack at a creature with 50k HP that heals twice uninterruptably... And for mages to twiddle their thumbs in GS since they blew all their spells...

QFE.

Play AoC or WoW for RAIDS, and let the DM's handle their business here. I've seen em do it.

It works.

Regards,

Your level 15 because your no longer in Amia's ruleset. That's why.

Jumping rulesets is like importing characters into a new game. Amia is house rules. It borrows from FR lore, it's set in a FR universe, but the rules and much of the lore is homebrew. So if you want to have your character jump to a new ruleset, such as base FR, you have to account for that fact, and then allow room for your character not being a monster in this ruleset. Thus, level 15. Powerful, but not quite Drizzt and his buddies powerful.

Kinda getting off good really, considering when most characters get imported to a new game from an old world/game, they end up starting at level one.

This being said, I like slow leveling servers. If it was up to me, Amia would be a slow level server. However it's not, and I'm to comfortable with Amia to be bothered switching to a completely different server as my main choice of NWN entertainment.

I disagree. You are not 15. You are whatever level you are The world is just harder. The difference between scaling the world up and scaling the PCs down may see academic, but it is a large difference. The former still leaves accomplishments for the PCs, the latter takes it away.

Expect the ruleset only allows to 20 for basic PC's, epic level requiring special reasons, extreme achivements and such. Accomplishments not gained by most (90% likely) of Amians, and not deserved.

I know I've slaughtered a Temple full of Yuan-ti, butchered Abyssal armies, massacred my way through the lair of the Fire Giants, destroyed a demonic armada ... how are these not major achievements?

Yurell wrote:

I know I've slaughtered a Temple full of Yuan-ti, butchered Abyssal armies, massacred my way through the lair of the Fire Giants, destroyed a demonic armada ... how are these not major achievements?

Because you achieved the level nessarcy to do those things with no hardship.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

I know I've slaughtered a Temple full of Yuan-ti, butchered Abyssal armies, massacred my way through the lair of the Fire Giants, destroyed a demonic armada ... how are these not major achievements?

Because you achieved the level nessarcy to do those things with no hardship.

Which serves to prove I'm not lvl 15.

To epic or not to epic.

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