AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark III

TormakSaber wrote:

Nothing in NWN1 can simulate a warlock with any reasonable ability. Just not doable. NWN2 spoiled me....

Take wizard levels, but have 10 Int and increase CHA and request an unlimited use widget to get CHA and do stuff and damage with it...

But by base, and by anything remotely feasable, da Tormak is right.

I still wouldn't mind seeing someone trying to RP as one. It's a very neat class for RP in addition to it's unique casting(although lacked in NWN). Sort of a fiendish/demonic flavored sorcerer. :twisted:

There already is/was one on Amia.

TormakSaber wrote:

Nothing in NWN1 can simulate a warlock with any reasonable ability. Just not doable. NWN2 spoiled me....

shifter, mb, if you ignore the shapeshifting part and only focus on the infinite spellcastings

No Eldtrich Blast, and shapeshifting is... eh... warlock dosen't do that.

TormakSaber wrote:

No Eldtrich Blast, and shapeshifting is... eh... warlock dosen't do that.

then just request a widget that skinchanges your polymorphs (like you can get summon changes) and you no longer polymorph.

MoshingChris wrote:

Carvelan wrote:

Hello!
I need help to figure out a build i have bin thinking of for some time.
I will play it as a Orog Warlock whit the classes Bard/BG/rogue

My plan was to go 21Bard/4BG/3Rogue

starting stats as Orog
str 18
dex 10
con 10
wis 8
int 10
cha 18

going for 20 Cha in the end and rest in str

The weapon I'm going for is the war hammer (Just because it looks cool) and no dev,crit. I think ill have better use for the epic feat somewhere else.

Any ideas or coments???
And does this worke as a warlock?

Error.

18 cha is enough.
3 BG is enough.
1 Rogue is enough but is better of being 1 Fighter.

Therefore 23 Bard 3 BG 2 Fighter is the BEEZNEEZ.

Mind Blackguard saves are getting capped to universal save/level so the undevable bar 1 aspect of the Bard/BG with enough slots for perform gear until you get epic gloves has been jap slapped. Hard.

You'll be short 6 - 7 universal saves than what you think you have.

Well i will rethink the warlock thing, maybe some kind of warchief. about the build My idea whit 4 BG was to get bouth divine might and shild and to get evasion from rogue.

But maybe your idea is better.

Ill keep the Cha at 18 and pump my str a bit higher.

I could need some help whit what feats to take.
Anyone have any ideas?

Carvelan wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Carvelan wrote:

...

Or maybe I should make a Orog whit high lvls in BG instead.
Maybe 10Fighter/16BG/2 Rogue heavy str and 18cha 14 wis. onley problem I can see is the fact that orogs has -2 wis

any tips on this instead... And I think this will work better as a warchief than the bard build.

I do not know if it is an error or typo or something; but in my PC building module, a cleric says:

Skill Points 2+Int Mod

but the module when I use it grants 3+Int mod

So on Amia; does a cleric level get 2+int or 3+int modifier for skill points?

Torzeng wrote:

I do not know if it is an error or typo or something; but in my PC building module, a cleric says:

Skill Points 2+Int Mod

but the module when I use it grants 3+Int mod

So on Amia; does a cleric level get 2+int or 3+int modifier for skill points?

Is he human? Humans gain one extra skillpoint per level. It's a racial "feat" called Skilled that kinda goes hand in hand with Quick to Master.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Cleric

2+ int modifier, human gets 3+

Dark Immolation wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

I do not know if it is an error or typo or something; but in my PC building module, a cleric says:

Skill Points 2+Int Mod

but the module when I use it grants 3+Int mod

So on Amia; does a cleric level get 2+int or 3+int modifier for skill points?

Is he human? Humans gain one extra skillpoint per level. It's a racial "feat" called Skilled that kinda goes hand in hand with Quick to Master.

Did not realize that at all. o.o

Does then the Sub-race no longer verify as "Human"? Or would that +1 skill still apply as long as base-race is human?

Subrace humans have all the benefits of being human - extra feat at first level and the extra skill points.

Yurell wrote:

Subrace humans have all the benefits of being human - extra feat at first level and the extra skill points.

Aasimar, Genasi, Tieflings do not however.

Human Barbarian builds. Tuigan subrace. This is a rebuild for a character who uses a bastard sword. Go.

Step One: Were you actually already Tuigan before the rebuild.

Yes. Very much so. And roleplayed as such.

Carvelan wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Carvelan wrote:

...

Or maybe I should make a Orog whit high lvls in BG instead.
Maybe 10Fighter/16BG/2 Rogue heavy str and 18cha 14 wis. onley problem I can see is the fact that orogs has -2 wis

any tips on this instead... And I think this will work better as a warchief than the bard build.

BGs have little use for wisdom IMO. Unholy sword isnt worth the 14 wis. Most of mine run with 10 or 11...however much is needed for AoD.

Course depends on the kinda BG you wanna build. That 20% concealment could be nice but 50% is easily available.

Human barb...Barb22/WM7/Rog1 (yes, for that tumble dump) using a great weapon. Or swap out rog for fig 4 (less barb clearly but my preferred build). I've only ever made a strength based barbie. Not sure how the con would fare. Maybe i might make one and get ideas for mighty rage improvement.

MoshingChris wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Subrace humans have all the benefits of being human - extra feat at first level and the extra skill points.

Aasimar, Genasi, Tieflings do not however.

Yes, mea culpa - only when your racial type does not change do you keep the bonuses. If you change to Outsider (those listed by Moshing) you lose the human benefits (although you do keep the extra feat at first level).

Okay Dokie. Let the F~L~A~M~I~N~G begin.

I'll be blunt in that this is work for the rebuild that my PC Weston Carter will have to face.

So; He's got to turn back to his roots, his first designs from RP building.
--

Cleric 25, Harper Scout 5
[[Order: Cleric 23/Harper3/Cleric1/Harper2/Cleric1]]
Race: Neutral Good, Human Subraced Mulan (Feat: Strong Soul, +1Wis, -1 Dex)
Initial Stats: Str 14, Dex 8 [7], Con 8, Wis 18 [19], Int 14, Cha 10
+7 Wis, End natural 26

Required Skills: Persuasion [8], Discipline (4), Search (4), Lore (6)
Required Feats: Iron Will, Alertness

Testing Results Final Skills: Concentration (33), Discipline (4), Heal (33), Lore (25), Persuade [8], Search (4), Spellcraft (30), Tumble (30)

Testing Results Feats:
Initial: Iron Will, Alertness (Strong Soul by Racial)
3: Blind Fight
6: Expertise
9: Extended Spell
12: Maximized Spell
((By level 13 was able to take Harper: 2skill points per level held for tumbledump hereafter))
15: Imp Expertise
18: Spell Focus: Conjuration
---
21: Great Wisdom 1 (?)
23: Armor Skin
24: Harper 3 levels: Favored Enemy: Undead; Epic Skill Focus: Heal
-Save 6 points for Concentration/Spellcraft!
27: Cleric: Epic Spell Greater Ruin
-Cap Spellcraft 30
28, 29; Harper: Epic Skill Focus: Concentration
-Cap Tumble 30, save 2 points for concentration
30: Toughness (?)

~-~-~-~

What is a tossup for changing is my Great Wisdom 1 and my Toughness.
Thoughts are currently:
Take: Greater Wisdom 1 and 2 for +2Wisdom = Natural 28Wis / 9Mod
Take: KD and Imp KD
Take: (?????) and Toughness +30 HP counterbalance to -1con mod
Take: ..... other ideas?

And any other suggestions. Although I will be keeping the Harpers since it's most appropriate for rebuilding. :twisted:

Why the Spell Focus: Conjuration?
You don't go higher then this +2DC, checking the spells you cast as conjuration you wont have too much use from them + you can get it from items if wanted.

Why the expertise?
Expertise cancels after spellcastings on amia, so you'ld keep clicking it on as a caster cleric. + you will have enough AC being a tumbledumped cleric. If you do take it, perhaps focus on a weapon and get yourself some foci to raise your AB back up a tad.

You can take: zen archery for better AB and ranged damage.
Works ok in combination with an EDK (take 3 SF:Conjuration feats)

If you want to be a healer/anti undead machine still spell is always good to double your # of heal castings.

And are you sure Purple Dragon Knight isn't better?

I'm looking for an assassin build.
What I want: Heavy xbow & a high as possible DC for Death Attack, as for race, no drow or monster races.
No need to tell me that there are a thousand better ways to kill someone.
Go! (Pretty please)

I've never made an assassin, much less toyed around with the PrC, but as far as I know assassin's Death Attack DC is mostly increased by their levels in the PrC. So A rogue 10 / Assassin 20, for example, would have the best Death Attack DC.

As far as using a Crossbow.. do you wanna have High AB, or Dev with it?

Swallow the Stars wrote:

I've never made an assassin, much less toyed around with the PrC, but as far as I know assassin's Death Attack DC is mostly increased by their levels in the PrC. So A rogue 10 / Assassin 20, for example, would have the best Death Attack DC.

As far as using a Crossbow.. do you wanna have High AB, or Dev with it?

"Danger Danger Will Robinson, my builder hooks are failing wildly"

Assassin.

13 Rogue 17 Assassin so you can get that nescessary epic dodge. If you make a Dexer without it, forever more shall you be deemed numb of the nuts.

Oh and also given your rolling for ones the absolute best build I can think of is 16 Rogue 1 Ranger 13 Assassin. 18 dex 16int @ start will give you a death atttack DC of 10 + 13 + 9.

Why 16 Rogue you may ask?

Crippling Strike, Improved Evasion and Deflowerer Roll.

@Weston

Why HS? I'm not judging, I'm just curious. I'd consider CoT 4/Rogue 1 in place of it, to be honest.

belgianbonzai wrote:

Why the Spell Focus: Conjuration?
You don't go higher then this +2DC, checking the spells you cast as conjuration you wont have too much use from them + you can get it from items if wanted.

I have never honestly known. I suspect it always had to do with Greater Ruin. I matched that off of the current build as it had been made for me.

I guess I have to make that a quesiton: Does Spell Focus Conjuration have anything to do with Greater Ruin? Or is this just a +DC to my healing spells if I use them on Undead?

Clarification to the rest of the build stuff: I am not looking for AB. Think "Healer Survivalist/Pacifist" I guess.

EDIT: Another Question:

Bardic Knowledge; does it give +Lore per class level or per character level? (IE: would level 30 character with 10 bard levels get +10lore or +30lore bonus?)

Clerics take conjuration because of EDK, and because it boosts the DC on healing spells, which destroy undead. This is probably why Wetson has it.

A sorcerer has 6 epic feats. He's taken two already: Epic Evo and Greater Ruin. He has the prereqs for Epic Conjuration and Dragon Knight, if he wants. His base Cha at level 30 will be 24. Should he go for:

Hellball, Epic Conj, Epic Dragon Knight, Epic Skill Spot

Or

Hellball, Great Cha, Great Cha, Great Cha, Great Cha

Or

Hellball, Great Cha, Great Cha, Epic Skill Spot, Epic Skill Disc

Or toss Epic Fort somewhere in there to boot?

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

@Weston

Why HS? I'm not judging, I'm just curious. I'd consider CoT 4/Rogue 1 in place of it, to be honest.

Because it is what is fair.

Weston, when I first made him, was a very weak PC for RP and build wise. Horribly inentionally so.

Well, Harper Scout was pretty weak. But it had some nifty little skills and bonuses. I like picking up a Favored enemy on undead. And the casting of invis/other buffs was cool at the time. More for kicks now. The craft items was something to kick around for amusement since I never got to see what it all was. But also the Bardic Knowlege for the +lore since he was supposed to be more brainy. The Invisibility was going to be good when he got it first since he didn't have a lot of prayers he could do yet to protect himself (and he often wanted to be able to hide and run off).

CoT: Not him at all in my opinion. Rogue and UMD dump doesn't fit either because he can understand arcane but specifically cannot utilize it even in scrolls and such. Just studied enough to recognize magic well and understand some concepts. I suppose he is trying to be a very strong faithful to Salandra, but I don't see him as a "champion" for it.

It's not a glorious powerbuild anymore. He's got to change and I feel this is the best way to do it without pushing the limits of how many classes he can jump between.

Harper Scout just has a lot of RP interest to me and I like the little bonuses.

MoshingChris wrote:

"Danger Danger Will Robinson, my builder hooks are failing wildly"

Assassin.

13 Rogue 17 Assassin so you can get that nescessary epic dodge. If you make a Dexer without it, forever more shall you be deemed numb of the nuts.

Oh and also given your rolling for ones the absolute best build I can think of is 16 Rogue 1 Ranger 13 Assassin. 18 dex 16int @ start will give you a death atttack DC of 10 + 13 + 9.

Why 16 Rogue you may ask?

Crippling Strike, Improved Evasion and Deflowerer Roll.

But be prepared for a low AB...

Pshht, who said anything about a dexer >.>
An int build seems to give the highest DC.

1 rogue / 4 fighter / 1 rogue / 24 assassin
Or
4 fighter / 1 rogue / 25 assassin
Or
1 rogue / 4 ranger / 25 assassin

Base int of let's say 18, getting it up to 24, add items and that's a 13 int mod

DC= 10 + 25 +13 = 48

As said, I'm not really looking into getting a good pvp'er, or a good pve'er.
I want that Death Attack to hit and hard, no matter how tiresome it'll be leveling this bugger.

(Using the +1 int human subrace nets another int modifier, might be an option)

I even consider taking 2 great int feats. Another DC extra!

Yannickbl wrote:

Pshht, who said anything about a dexer >.>
An int build seems to give the highest DC.

1 rogue / 4 fighter / 1 rogue / 24 assassin
Or
4 fighter / 1 rogue / 25 assassin
Or
1 rogue / 4 ranger / 25 assassin

Base int of let's say 18, getting it up to 24, add items and that's a 13 int mod

DC= 10 + 25 +13 = 48

As said, I'm not really looking into getting a good pvp'er, or a good pve'er.
I want that Death Attack to hit and hard, no matter how tiresome it'll be leveling this bugger.

(Using the +1 int human subrace nets another int modifier, might be an option)

I even consider taking 2 great int feats. Another DC extra!

You can't have more than 10 levels in a prestige class pre-epic, which limits you to a maximum of 20 levels of assassin.

How about Wizard/Assassin? You could put that rediculous Intelligence modifier to good use. Be able to cast True Strike and some other fun stuff.

can someone pass me an RDD build that doesn't suck?

it's for my silverkin, Elrien. She's drow, for level's sake. Presently she's sorc/rdd and can't fight her way out of a wet paper bag.

No caster sorc can get enough RDD for wings and still be a respectable caster. That means if you want wings you're looking at something like bard20/RDD 10 or you're doing a fighter/bard/RDD melee thing, pretty much.

Yeah, I'm slowly but surely figuring that out. Sadly I suck at feat selection, so I really kinda need a hand with the levelling and feats.

Putting together something of a Tuigan battlepriest.

Human, Tuigan
Str 17 (+1)
Dex 8 (-1)
Con 12
Wisdom 16
Int 12
Cha 8

1 Cleric - Power Attack, Cleave
2 Cleric
3 Cleric - Extend Spell
4 Cleric
5 Cleric
6 Cleric - Great Cleave
7 Cleric
8 Cleric
9 Cleric - Weapon Focus
10 Cleric
11 Cleric
12 Cleric - Improved Critical
13 Cleric
14 Cleric
15 Cleric - Knockdown
16 Blackguard
17 Blackguard
18 Blackguard - Blind-Fight
19 Blackguard
20 Cleric
21 Cleric - Great Strength
22 Cleric
23 Cleric
24 Cleric - Overwhelming Critical
25 Cleric
26 Cleric
27 Rogue - Devastating Critical
28 Rogue
29 Rogue
30 Cleric - Great Wisdom, EWF

Would end up with 26 STR, 17 Wisdom. I'm aware it only would be able to cast 7th level spells.

TormakSaber wrote:

No caster sorc can get enough RDD for wings and still be a respectable caster. That means if you want wings you're looking at something like bard20/RDD 10 or you're doing a fighter/bard/RDD melee thing, pretty much.

Or the pseudo-umd Paladin/Sorc/RDD 17/1/10.

Yeah, but that's still a "melee RDD thing."

Shorthand: You can't really do caster well with a full 10 RDD.Your caster level will inevitably be hamstrung.

TormakSaber wrote:

Yeah, but that's still a "melee RDD thing."

Shorthand: You can't really do caster well with a full 10 RDD.Your caster level will inevitably be hamstrung.

I'd really say you will never be the best at anything with 10RDD. A fighter for instance doesn't need +2cha, whilst a sorc likes the cha and int but a kitten could dispel your spells with a wet sock.

Was also just throwing up the Idea then realised it was a Drow and a Silverkin Drow Paladin makes me want to stab myself in the face.

Repeatedly.

With a mountain.

I was trying to be polite, but yes, Mosh is right.

sYuzan wrote:

Putting together something of a Tuigan battlepriest.

Human, Tuigan
Str 17 (+1)
Dex 8 (-1)
Con 12
Wisdom 16
Int 12
Cha 8

1 Cleric - Power Attack, Cleave
2 Cleric
3 Cleric - Extend Spell
4 Cleric
5 Cleric
6 Cleric - Great Cleave
7 Cleric
8 Cleric
9 Cleric - Weapon Focus
10 Cleric
11 Cleric
12 Cleric - Improved Critical
13 Cleric
14 Cleric
15 Cleric - Knockdown
16 Blackguard
17 Blackguard
18 Blackguard - Blind-Fight
19 Blackguard
20 Cleric
21 Cleric - Great Strength
22 Cleric
23 Cleric
24 Cleric - Overwhelming Critical
25 Cleric
26 Cleric
27 Rogue - Devastating Critical
28 Rogue
29 Rogue
30 Cleric - Great Wisdom, EWF

Would end up with 26 STR, 17 Wisdom. I'm aware it only would be able to cast 7th level spells.

KD and no IKD? Use ring of the ram instead *sigh* hate that ring.

Dont take 4BG, take 3 instead. You're shafting yourself when it comes to AB and APR. Why 3 rogue? one will suffice for a tumble dump and BGs dark blessing would actually lower your saves with a negative charisma modifier (I think). If you're going for a 7th level spells you might as well max out at 16 wis for extended battletide and SR. You're spells are all to buff yourself anyway I'm assuming? 26Clr/3BG/1Rog also nets you an extra bonus epic feat from Clr 26

4 BG is for extra attack per round and a Sneak Attack, 3 rogue for same Sneak Attack reason. I have an RPd reason for it, but that shall remain hidden.

sYuzan wrote:

4 BG is for extra attack per round and a Sneak Attack, 3 rogue for same Sneak Attack reason. I have an RPd reason for it, but that shall remain hidden.

Divine power gives you an extra attack per round at your highest Ab. The extra 1d6 sneak will be useless. But if its RP then by all means!

Swallow the Stars wrote:

You can't have more than 10 levels in a prestige class pre-epic, which limits you to a maximum of 20 levels of assassin.

Ah indeed, I forgot about that

Quite a pity.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

How about Wizard/Assassin? You could put that rediculous Intelligence modifier to good use. Be able to cast True Strike and some other fun stuff.

True Strike would be indeed useful for this character, though I'm not sure taking more than 1 casterlevel will be that useful, considering the quite lower AB it'll cause. Might just get my hands on True Strike scrolls then orso, UMD won't be a problem.

For the first 10 levels then either a mix of:

Rogue/fighter
Rogue/hunter
Pure hunter

I'm not really inclined to take more than 3 rogue lvls, and am somehow drawn to 10 ranger / 20 assassin, for the superior AB, and favored enemies.

Bane of enemies can only be taken when you have 21 ranger levels right?

Anyway, any suggestions?

Elrien couldn't be a Pally anyway, she's LN. She's just got too much taint from her past to ever reliably be LG, and there's the whole "Married to a murderer" thing.

For the Cleric/Bg/Rogue

If you dont go for the extra wisdom I will chuckle. No mass heal or decent summons or massive damage spells that look cool as shit... Le sigh. Go for the dev critting tuigan if you must... You'll just be one of the million of the exact same build doing the exact same thing.

For the assassin bit remember a few things:

Be sure to seek out the trainer that is located somewhere on Amia because it really beefs up your assassin a lot.

Also know that you basic nwn castings; (ghostly visage, invis, improved invis and darkness) gets the duration extended by your assassin class levels so when you're 20 assassin your darkness lasts so long you can get away with claiming its an eclipse.

Bear in mind the extended duration does not cover the amia bonus spells, which are obscur. mist, invis, improved invis, darkness and freedom of movement.

And offcourse.. use that darkness all the time. Without sd levels its the way the"pure" sneakers work. Darkness and cut anybody to shreds and enjoy as they get stunned for ages.

Quote:

Bear in mind the extended duration does not cover the amia bonus spells, which are obscur. mist, invis, improved invis, darkness and freedom of movement.

Um... yes it does. The scripted spells run off Assassin levels.

I'm looking for a really good human SD build. Something that can max hide/MS but still has a good AB/AC. I really suck at the concept of building so level by level and rank by rank if you got one I can use please.

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