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You nerd, you deleted your post!

Where's the Angel smiley.

...Yeah, I thought he was. Then I looked at FR Wiki, Bard 6. But I was looking at some other Volo.

Ahh, MArcus Wands, a.k.a. Marco Volo, the fake Volo!

Thats the one. He had me fooled, serves me right for not reading the page properly!

I don't think he counts as a famous bard though. Unless you count his fake fame.

...I cannot find anything lorewise that supports Prismatic dragons.

Give me a link somewhere

Last edited by Glyph on Tue, Sep 21 2010, 14:52 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

Prismatic dragons are flamboyant, personable and charming. They avoid confrontation, fighting only if attacked

sorry but every other link I find leads to stats.

it is classed as an epic dragon. and its CR is always above 35+. also they are always true neutral, and I believe they are gemstone type dragons, IE not chromatic or metalic.

and the stats: http://www.charles-reace.com/Hobbies/DnD_Monster_DB/index.php?id=36

ed: don't want to clutter the thread, but I feel I should add, they are epically immune to nearly anything you can throw at them, especially light as has been noted.

They're from the Epic Level Handbook, what did you want to know about them?

Quote:

Prismatic dragons are flamboyant, personable, and charming, quite unlike the aloof force dragons, despite being their undeniable superiors. They enjoy the wild diversity of life, particularly the incredible spectrum of human personality. Though they rarely venture into humanoid communities, they enjoy visitors to their remote lairs and rarely attack any creature unless provoked.

A wyrmling prismatic dragon is covered in tiny, brightly reflective scales and surrounded by a shimmering aura of multicolored light. Even the scales of great wyrm are very small and fine, making its skin appear as smooth as a snake’s, though the brilliant scales are virtually invulnerable. Like force dragons, prismatic dragons are completely odorless.

Prismatic dragons make their lairs wherever they please. While some prefer remote fastnesses far from any sign of civilization, others choose to live in sea caves just outside a port city, in the ruins overlooking a bustling trading town, or in the forest just beyond a hamlet’s pasture land. They seem to eat a small amount relative to their size, and are generally careful to hunt over a wide range of territory to avoid depleting resources or angering local cattle herders. They eat any kind of meat, and may in fact derive sustenance from light.

Are they part of the 'Gem Dragon' race?

Oh, and why am i asking? - Dunno honest; Trying to determine why there's no Lore about them on the http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Quote:

Dragon (Light)

FR Wiki is shit. But there's no mention of them on Candlekeep's FR index either. I guess that means there are no Prismatic Dragons in the realms.

I think its an nwn thing, like how shifters arn't in the core manuals either...

Most of the epic, planar and other extra core stuff didn't make its way into FR. I suppose we'll have to suppose, in general, that they might or might not exist. Prismatics of course do, in our setting, because they do.

I guess we have to say they come from elsewhere and have had little cultural influence in the Realms.

I have a question, if you are a druid <-- and a wizard, is it a general good idea to avoid all necromancy spells, I ask because of the whole grey necromancy thing, and that healing is also necromancy...

the one in particular i'm looking at and wondering about is negative energy ray and scare..not ray of enfeeblement, but I assume that both of these would be a bad idea...is neutral good also, not sure i'd take slay living if I went the druid route more. (i mean not sure i'd use it.)

I'm certain a druid would entirely avoid anything involving undead or negative energy. Both are intrinsically harmful to the natural world. Undeath to Death, Horrid Wilting (it dessicates through removal of water, not negative energy), and Fear-type spells would be fine, IMO. Negative Energy Ray, Wail, Ray of Enfeeblement, Circle of Death, and other spells that use negative energy would likely get you fallen.

Healing is conjuration, not necromancy.

Necromancy spells are fine. Druids get them. They can use them. It's specific subsets that they have issues with.

I was about to add something along those lines. Druids get Harm, Slay Living and Finger of death, so they don't intrinsically have an issue with all necromancy(though IC some might). I'd say negative energy would be slightly frowned upon exactly for what Gers mentioned though, it only exists to take life, but heck, sometimes to protect the order, lives have to be taken, and fast. Thus, Harm. And the wise druid would realize that Negative energy is natural in that it balances out Positive, etc, etc. He may not like it, as he's hippy dippy and "all life is sacred", but he'd know it.

So I've found it's not always the necromantic magic that kills people that druids have problems with, it's the kind that make people come back from being killed, ie undeath. Undeath is never "natural" to a druid. And because of how closely related Undeath and Negative energy are, some shy away from it. Nobody tell them about Shades, btw.

Indeed. And I disagree that Druids wouldn't use negative energy. Positive energy and negative energies make up the world and so it's perfectly natural. Both can be used destructively or constructively as well. The only real thing a Druid has a problem with is the undeath aspect that Necromancy can bring. Everything else is all personal opinion of each individual druid/druidic circle. I'm sure most would have something against the destruction of souls, trapping of souls, altering of souls and all that though. But besides that, it's case by case I'd say.

I am still a bit iffy on the specifics of druids and negative energy as opposed to necromancy, as opposed to actually summoning undead which I understand. (also spells like weird which are death spells but not necromancy, from scrolls in that case, you'd have to have a 17 wizard/13 druid for that at the least to cast normally...)

I have a new question, not really amia related but it would be sweet to know.

space, the not so final frontier since planes exist...what are the other known planets near toril like? and is there source lore that expands on the subject, not nessicarrily FR in this case, I recall something from 2nd ed adnd and space, but the ability to breath normally and wooden pirate ships put me off the subject. wildspace I think is the word i'm looking for.

Does anyone have any elaboration or specific details concerning Helm, his church, hierarchy, tenets, etc? I'm trying to do some writing concerning such and I don't want to make any obvious contradictions.

Glyph wrote:

I have a new question, not really amia related but it would be sweet to know.

space, the not so final frontier since planes exist...what are the other known planets near toril like? and is there source lore that expands on the subject, not nessicarrily FR in this case, I recall something from 2nd ed adnd and space, but the ability to breath normally and wooden pirate ships put me off the subject. wildspace I think is the word i'm looking for.

Look up something called Spacejammer. It's what would happen in Star Trek and Forgotten Realms had a nerdy lovechild.

Swallow the Stars wrote:

Does anyone have any elaboration or specific details concerning Helm, his church, hierarchy, tenets, etc? I'm trying to do some writing concerning such and I don't want to make any obvious contradictions.

To specifcy, I already understand Helm himself and his own backstory and the lore concerning him. I really just need in depth elaboration. Maybe a book or an internet source that could help me further understand his church and its workings, as well as any lore concerning Paladins and Clerics of Helm.

Swallow the Stars wrote:

Does anyone have any elaboration or specific details concerning Helm, his church, hierarchy, tenets, etc? I'm trying to do some writing concerning such and I don't want to make any obvious contradictions.

To specifcy, I already understand Helm himself and his own backstory and the lore concerning him. I really just need in depth elaboration. Maybe a book or an internet source that could help me further understand his church and its workings, as well as any lore concerning Paladins and Clerics of Helm.

Helm. That's about as in depth as you're going to find, unless you read the ToT books. "In-depth" elaboration is usually left up to PC's to prattle on about what they believe is the mindset, mood, etc of their god.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Glyph wrote:

I have a new question, not really amia related but it would be sweet to know.

space, the not so final frontier since planes exist...what are the other known planets near toril like? and is there source lore that expands on the subject, not nessicarrily FR in this case, I recall something from 2nd ed adnd and space, but the ability to breath normally and wooden pirate ships put me off the subject. wildspace I think is the word i'm looking for.

Look up something called Spacejammer. It's what would happen in Star Trek and Forgotten Realms had a nerdy lovechild.

Spelljammer. And it can die in a fire.

I have a question but first some info because I don't think people know much about Garyx off the top of their heads, also I don't know if this would count as a lore question or more like what do DMs think.

I have a neutral evil kobold druid/shifter that worships Garyx. Garyx is an interesting god. He is chaotic evil but allows chaotic good followers. He has two aspects. The "All-destroyer" and the "Cleanser of Worlds". Most follow the destruction part of his portfolio which focuses on the sheer destructive power of fire. Others focus more on the "cleanser" part and the renewal aspect of his portfolio. This is where druids come in. They know that some destruction is needed for new life be born in its wake thus keeping with the cycle of life, and everything must come to an end, and so on and so forth.

I was with two other kobolds and one summoned an undead. As a druid, even an evil one, I killed it. I explained why and they said Garyx wouldn't mind summoning undead. In fact, he would grant the spells to do so. But he also grants druids their spells. Both red and gold dragons follow him. So my question is, what the heck am I supposed to do so I don't break my druid oaths and lose my spells, especially if I ever run into a cleric of Garyx that summons undead?

I'm so confused. Maybe that's what I get for following an insane deity.

Garyx is Grayhawk (sp?) or Core. Amia goes by Forgotten Realms. In Forgotten Realms, I believe Falazure would be the god you want.

Tormie can give you better info, though. He is our resident dragonlore DM.

EDIT: I think I am confusing the gods. Oh, well... Tormie should be the one for you. >_>;;

Well I originally got the idea from the kobold lore written up by LetumLux
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36883

EDIT: Also Faluzure is the dragon god of undead.

I believe the Draconic Pantheon, like many racial pantheons - Dorf, Gnome, etc - is cross setting. Its the same everywhere - Greyhawk, FR...

Personally I think you were both right. Not every follower of every deity has the same perspective - A cleric and a druid will see things differently. A Druid should oppose Undead without exception, even evil druids, wheras a Cleric can do whatever he wants, really. Especially a Cleric of a noncaring deity like Garyx. I'd argue the thing to do for your Kobold is to convince the Cleric to stop it (Said convincing may or may not include Empowered Sunburst)....and try and make it see your renewal angle.

A druid's oath's supercede a deity's oaths.

Isaiah wrote:

Well I originally got the idea from the kobold lore written up by LetumLux
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36883

EDIT: Also Faluzure is the dragon god of undead.

Yep, I was sleepy when I read your post. I, indeed, confused deities! Sorry about it!

Are the standard druid oaths specifically outlined anywhere? I get the idea of preserving nature (by means in accordance with a druid's deity's dogma and the druid's alignment), generally being against undead, and not using worked metal, but is there a well defined list of items universally found in druidic oaths?

Not sure. In my personal opinion, a druid would seek to destroy undeat,h regardess of their venerated deity.

tbh, I doubt Garyx supports Druids. It's kind of a niche list.

Garyx does support druids.

As has been said, your Druidic oaths come first. If a Cleric of Garyx has an undead and you're a Druid of Garyx, you're going to have some problems with the fella. It's not odd, really. Look at deities like Hoar, Jergal, Kossuth and others who have worshipers that can take to extremes toward evil or good. They have conflict in their Churches as well. Or hell, even Talos or Auril, who like undead, but also support Druids.

-------

There are a few oaths that are indeed set in stone for Druids, but most oaths are personal things that each individual Druid promises to his/her god. The two oaths set in stone are:

1. Undead are unnatural and should be destroyed
2. Aberrations are unnatural and should be destroyed

Some common ones are:

1. A strict code on weapon use. (This applies to all Druids except those of Mielikki, who's Druids double as Rangers)
2. A strict code on metal use. (This applies to all Druids except those of Mielikki, who's Druids double as Rangers)
3. A hate/dislike for outsiders -- besides elementals.

There are also dogma specific oaths many Druids would almost always take. For example: Silvanus' dogma preaches against the unnatural spread of plagues and diseases, so a Druid of his would more than likely always work against that and surely never participate in it.

Aside from that, come up with some good oaths to work with for your Druid. Be true to your character and have fun with it.

I also can't really see how a druid/shifter would change into an undead form and still retain his god's favor. Becoming the thing you hate the most would be bad. I'm not talking about Garyx anymore, just in general.

I know you can say "I'm not a druid. I'm a shifter." but I like being both.

Thoughts on this?

Don't take Undead Shape.

Isaiah wrote:

I also can't really see how a druid/shifter would change into an undead form and still retain his god's favor. Becoming the thing you hate the most would be bad. I'm not talking about Garyx anymore, just in general.

I know you can say "I'm not a druid. I'm a shifter." but I like being both.

Thoughts on this?

You can say the same about aberration shapes, which are very very popular: Umberhulk & Mindflayer.

I don't agree that taking undead and aberration shapes would get you a fall if you're a Druid/Shifter though. I think it's a case by case thing.

Isaiah wrote:

I also can't really see how a druid/shifter would change into an undead form and still retain his god's favor. Becoming the thing you hate the most would be bad. I'm not talking about Garyx anymore, just in general.

I know you can say "I'm not a druid. I'm a shifter." but I like being both.

Thoughts on this?

It's very much a mixed bag, and depends on your deity - and how you use it.]

Undead Shape is, largely, frowned upon severely and unlikely to be tolerated even slightly within the higher-circles of druidic society, however is often seen as a tool that - if possessed - can, at times, serve a legitimate purpose. That said, it's largely a last-ditch. As for why it's tolerated - the primary fault of Undeath is the corruption of life and how it twists and torques both nature and the soul. Undead Shape, however, does not do this as it is merely a large change of physiology and physical manifestation - a temporary one at that. It commits no harm to the balance itself, nor damages nature or the like.

That said, again; extremely frowned upon, and often a source of severe distaste by most druids and rangers. It, however, will not get you ex-druided unless used wantonly or recklessly

You could argue that changing into anything but your true shape is unnatural, if you wanted to go down that way, IMO. I think the bottom line is: druids get it, so druids get to use it. You can justify it in a dozen ways, as long as you do somehow justify it.

Becoming something you hate is not necessarily conceding to it. It can have powerful symbolism to the contrary: evil turning upon itself, figuratively speaking. Taking their shape without the essence that makes them corrupt, yet emerging victorious against them thus nullifying their own essence. Poetic justice might appeal to some druids.

I thought I had read here somewhere that to learn a new shape, a Druid or shifter must have studied that shape extensively. That would make taking an undead shape rather suspicious, considering its implication that the shapeshifter must have been around undead specimens quite a lot, with the intention to study rather than destroy.

Of course, this is only hearsay, and unsure hearsay at that.

Even if that's true, it's hardly condemning. Do you suggest a druid has to attack a zombie as soon as he sees one, and can't watch it first? Whatever the case, we know that druids do actually get undead shapes. This is the fact we're given, so our job is to justify why it happens. We can't really doubt the fact itself, because we can readily see it in game.

I think the "bad undead!" doctrine is taken to extremes in that interpretation, as is usually the case. Truth be told, a druid probably would be appalled but wouldn't see a reason to act if he saw a zombie in the laboratry of a mage in a city, for example. (Don't ask why he was there in the first place!) The undead isn't in nature, corrupting it, but rather poetically threathening the heart of the decadent civilization that created it. Some druids might laugh and walk away, as long as they didn't have reason to suspect the zombie might come walking in the woods. Druids aren't necessarily stupid or ridicilous.

Honestly though, I think the druid rules are much like paladin rules: they are relics that don't work anymore, and should be adjusted according to deity and character. Not everyone is a New Age Celt-wannabe in FR. The introduction of such gods as Talona and Malar as possible druid patrons invalidates much druid lore: gods like that were the antithesis of available druidic patrons in a time when the detailed druid lore was written. Malar's clergy kill traditional druids wherever they see them; that should suggest that Malarite druids are not the druids meant in antiquated lore. Historically, this is a game-design fact: nobody ever thought that there would be undead-endorsing, destruction-loving druid patrons when the druid lore was published, but things just happened and consistency was lost. But that's neither here nor there as long as people want to hold onto cliches (and D&D rules, literally). It's just good to keep in mind if you want to understand why the contradictions exist. The first two paragraphs stand, regardless of this wishful thinking.

Druids aren't like Paladins in that they think in black and white and are forced to act against things they oppose or risk falling, imo. If a Paladin see's a wraith, for example, chances are he's going to have to destroy it or risk a fall. A Druid, on the other hand, doesn't have to if it's too risky to do or he has some kind of other plan against it.

I see Paladins as people who must act, and now. Druids can take their time if they need it. Perhaps that's a wrong interpretation of Paladins since I don't really know them that well, but that's how I see them. A Paladin see's a city of "innocents" being raided by evil Orcs, the Paladin goes in to try and save the place/people or risk a fall. A Druid sees a forest being overrun by Orcs who are setting fire and chopping down trees, he doesn't necessarily have to run in there and be Captain Planet.

So yes, I think it actually can be reasonable for a Druid/shifter to study and watch undead to learn the shape.

Is it possible to Summon some Really Badass Demons on amia; And in exchange for some type of boon; Have your character be rewarded?

Very_Svensk wrote:

Is it possible to Summon some Really Badass Demons on amia; And in exchange for some type of boon; Have your character be rewarded?

Lore-wise? Why not. You can open a Gate to most any plane, and knowing the name of a fiend is one way to call it. Of course, it's a DM story matter in practice.

GuNz: Well, I wouldn't say all paladins have to act, either. I mean, sure, if they have no reason not to act, they probably should. But there's a Tormite order who can use existing undead for their purposes before destroying them. I imagine this means turning them against the summoner and letting them finish the job before going into the locked crypt the next day to deal with them. Then there's Kelemvor, who himself may animate the dead for his purposes. I doubt his paladins would attack those undead. Or Hoar, whose specialty priests can let the deceased come back as a Revenant to take final vengeance; Hoarran paladins would probably have to atone for acting against their church superior. The same goes for druids, IMO: if you serve a deity whose clergy are expected to use undead in their work (Umberlee comes to mind, if she allows druids on Amia. Or Talona, for sure.), you won't deal with the undead business as a druid of course, but neither will you oppose the equally faithful clerics who enact your god's will in their own way. That would be ridicilous. You might just walk away, or keep an eye on what happens.

In the BG thread http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/posting.php?mode=reply&f=2&t=29020 Mr. Tormak said the following:

TormakSaber wrote:

Hoar works both ends of the spectrum, something that annoys both Bane and Tyr, the two deities who constantly court his alliances, and the two deities he tends to scorn to work for his own ends. He has devil and celestial servants. A BG of Hoar probably focuses more on the "Vengeance" bit to an extreme, yeah.

As I'm doing a lot of research on Celestial Lore myself (I'll actually have some written up and posted for review) I'm curious. Are these Good-aligned Celestials and Evil-Aligned Devils working for the same deity, or are there "neutral" celestials in the FR universe?

If the former setup, rather than the latter, how do the two groups interact with each other?

The Draconomicon wrote:

Garyx

Clergy and Temples

Garyx pays little or no attention to his clerics and worshipers, but they care not. They believe that he grants them the power to perform acts of destruction, and that is enough. Perhaps curiously, some druids also revere the renewal aspect of Garyx, knowing that some devastation is always necessary for rejuvenation to occur.

Revering the aspect and him actually supporting druids is a bit different.

Though according to the book he does support Fire (Renewal)

So I've been mulling over a new PC. Pure Wizard. But looking at "RP prestige classes" to give a bit more depth and direction and something to work at attaining. Two specific ones caught my eye, but I've not been able to find much information about them besides a cursory description, and was hoping someone might have access to a PDF or website with more details

The two classes in question are:
Eladrin High Mage
Wizard of the Spiral Tower

Any info would be appreciated, especially that of requirements and a more full description/history/RP type info.

Last edited by Glyph on Wed, Sep 29 2010, 21:30 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Thaumaturgist (summoning focus basically) come to mind, thanks to srd d20, as does archmage, which would work through gaining as many spells as possible I imagine, since the pre-requisites for that are 7th lv spells and spells from 5 schools at the least. however upon reaching 7th level spells around these parts one can be considered an archmagi. or 9th, I forget where I read that. novice is lower than 3rd level spells, and onward...

alienist sounds fun but I don't think its vaible without alot of work. the complete arcane has alot of info.

geometer's use symbols as a main focus, 7xfold veil initiates focus on defence and prismatic light and stuff, though i'm sure theres more to it, and i'd rather not guess at that one.

and then there's homebrew and themed focuses, for example time, thats a doable one, haste, slow, time stop, premenition...anything divination really. or focusing on pyromancy, or another element.
--

eladrian from what I can find looks like an elvish archmage, with some druid tendencys but not nesicarily one. ie: they like nature alot. that said I think druid would work nice with that for the nature elemental summons.

and the latter, elven spellswords, from the lore I would add cot to the list of classes but pure wizard would work nicely.

Quote:

The wizards of the Spiral Tower are a group of wizards trained in ancient methods of the Feywild, as part of a tradition initiated at Corellon’s own behest. Practicing ancient lessons passed down by Corellon’s most devoted followers, wizards of the Spiral Tower are deadly mages who have learned to use Corellon’s favored weapon, the longsword, as an implement in a manner similar to swordmages, using their blade as both a weapon and an implement. With time, a wizard of the Spiral Tower’s longsword becomes fused with the power of the Feywild itself.

a more known, less deity oriented version of that is the eldrich knight, but it requires weapon focus, then again so does a wizard of the spiral tower if they want to be any good with longswords.

ed: rather not post again til I can be more helpful, but those are both 4th edition classes...that said they are both workable, but I don't have any 4th ed sources on the net, I'm not sure I want to xD.

Thanks Glyph but I'm more looking for lots of detail about those two specific ones I listed, not other options

I looked through the entire list of prestiege classes pretty much, already.

Alright, well...

I have this silly little obsession with Waterdeep. I've attempted to find as many websites, books, or just about anything that talks about the city or the Lore surrounding it. I've got about half of the "Ed Greenwood Presents; Waterdeep" books, and am ordering more from the local book store. I've even gone so far as to print out a whole map of the city of Waterdeep from an e-book I have that, when stood straight up, is about eight feet high.

So I'm asking any of you out there who think you might have some secluded bit of info, that I might not have, to hit me with it. Books, websites, anything, everything.

Much love to those who can help <3

IronAngel wrote:

Well, I wouldn't say all paladins have to act, either. I mean, sure, if they have no reason not to act, they probably should. But there's a Tormite order who can use existing undead for their purposes before destroying them. I imagine this means turning them against the summoner and letting them finish the job before going into the locked crypt the next day to deal with them. Then there's Kelemvor, who himself may animate the dead for his purposes. I doubt his paladins would attack those undead. Or Hoar, whose specialty priests can let the deceased come back as a Revenant to take final vengeance; Hoarran paladins would probably have to atone for acting against their church superior. The same goes for druids, IMO: if you serve a deity whose clergy are expected to use undead in their work (Umberlee comes to mind, if she allows druids on Amia. Or Talona, for sure.), you won't deal with the undead business as a druid of course, but neither will you oppose the equally faithful clerics who enact your god's will in their own way. That would be ridicilous. You might just walk away, or keep an eye on what happens.

What order is that? The only thing I could find are "Holy Champions" of Torm -- who are specialty priests -- who can command the dead if they wish, without endangering their alignment, and they're specialty priests, not Paladins.

I disagree about Druids and Paladins turning a blind eye to undead use from other clergy. They have their code/oaths to honor in order not to fall. Not turning a blind eye to undeath is a part of them.

Also, Kelemvor may be able to animate the dead, but I've never once read anywhere that he's done it. Have you? Maybe you were thinking of Jergal, not Kelemvor?

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