AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Chain I'd wager. Since you will need 15 dex to get amidex, it'll be easy to get 18 dex for the chain armor. You'll likely be getting the improved two-weapon feat.

I also think that a high amount of WM isn't required for high ab, due to all the feats a fighter gets. If you are wielding a 1d10 or 1d12 weapon I can see that the WM thingy where you max out damage is handy, but on a 1d6 weapon you won't feel much of a difference, and will probably be busy spamming IKD.

The fighter 20/wm 7/rogue 3 would be more efficient if you are aiming for improved two-weapon fighting I think. You should end on 47 ab dual-wielding handaxes (+4) if you grab two rogue levels pre-epic to get evasion early on, which is rather handy.

What about rogue heavy builds? I'm wanting to go dual shortswords. A rebuild actually, but I want 5 APR.

23rogue/1ranger/6fighter

30 Rogue.

29 Rogue 1 Ranger

What Silent SAid

24 Rogue 6 Monk

23 Rogue 1 Ranger 6 Monk

19 Rogue 1 Ranger 10 Monk

Human Sorcerer 30

HP:150

STR: 10
DEX: 14
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 9
CHA: 25

Concentration: 33
Heal: 27
Lore: 33
Spellcraft: 33
CraftArmor: 3
CraftWeapon: 3

Combat Casting
Extend Spell
Maximize Spell
Spell Penetration
Weapon Finesse
Weap Prof: Simple
Spell Foc: Necromancy
Quick To Master
Summon Familiar
Gr Spell Penetration
Ep Spell Penetration
Ep Gr Cha 1
Ep Spell Mummy Dust
Ep Spell Dragon Knight
Ep Spell Hellball
Ep Spell Mage Armour
Scribe Scroll
Craft Wand
Ep Sorcerer
Ep Character

Ok so here's Janna as she stands now. I want to rebuild her, to make her a better pure sorc, as well as a sort of spellblade, though she uses a trident.

I find myself frustrated at how much her casting sucks. At how her spells seem to be pretty much useless in both PvP and PVM. In PvM, I've come to depend of the BBoD, as it keeps her from having to come out of invisible and start taking some attacks. However, there comes a point in time when she runs out of BBoD... then she is dogmeat.

I wouldn't mind her having better AC, so I am thinking of giving her a small shield. I might consider multi-classing her but not in such as way that she loses any effectiveness as a caster. I'd also like her epic spells to have bite.

Suggestions?

If you want to rebuild your sorc I'd do the following:

- combat casting, weapon finesse, scribe or craft wand, one of the epic summons, Ep spell pen, hellball
+ epic spell focus evo/necro, greater ruin

less DEX, more CHA/CON

AC is quite irrelevant if you stick to casting spells. I'd not think about meleeing without multiclassing and getting tumble/discipline and a shield. I'am currently testing the Sorc23 Fighter6 Bard1 melee sorc. Dunno if that fits your concept.

well I have been discussing ideas with someone and have come up with a 29/1 sorc/bard combo that seems doable, but I think thats as far as i want to go to multiclassing her.

You do have a good point about keeping her out of Melee and, thinking about it, I agree. I've gotten very good at having her harrass the enemy without engaging them other than spells, which aren't usually effective.

I was told that the spell pen's are useless.

Essentially I just want my baby to be ok on her own as a sorc, and not such a pushover, and I want to do it without taking Epic Prowess.

Eh.. say, is it not possible to grab epic prowess several times? Seems like its only selectable once... *saaaad face*.

I see spell focus necro but no epic spell focus...

Is it worth it to take Epic Skill Focus in Open Lock and/or Disable Trap, for a rogue character with a reasonably great DEX and a maxed-out 33 ranks in those skills?

Ulir wrote:

Eh.. say, is it not possible to grab epic prowess several times? Seems like its only selectable once... *saaaad face*.

Epic Prowess adds +1 to your AB with -ALL- weapons. It's only selectable once.

Lizzie wrote:

Is it worth it to take Epic Skill Focus in Open Lock and/or Disable Trap, for a rogue character with a reasonably great DEX and a maxed-out 33 ranks in those skills?

No.

Ulir wrote:

Eh.. say, is it not possible to grab epic prowess several times? Seems like its only selectable once... *saaaad face*.

I was wondering what the hell you were talking about in your earlier posts.

Now I know.

Real quick question for you guys.
Im looking at a good paly smiting build and was wondering about CoT bonus feats. If i wait till epic lvls to pick up that PrC does its epic bonus feat list open up at those lvls? For example if say i take CoT lvl 2 at lvl 22 would Great Smite be available as one of the bonus feats?

Yes, providing youve got the 25 Charisma.

The Balanced Smiter is 23 Paladin 6 CoT 1 Tumble Class

Human
14STR
8DEX
8CON
14WIS
10INT
18CHA -> 25 + 1 Great Charisma

1 - 20: Paladin 19 CoT 1
Feats: Weapon Focus, Blindfight, Extend Spell, Improved Critical, Knockdown, Great Fort, Lightening Reflexes, Toughness

21 Paladin: Great Cha
22 Paladin
23 Paladin:
24 CoT: Great Smite 1, Epic Weapon Focus
25 CoT
26 CoT: Great Smite 2
27 CoT: Great Smite 3
28 CoT: Great Smite 4
29 Rogue:
30 Paladin: Armor Skin, Epic Skill Focus Discipline

UMD: 10 Tumble: 30 Discipline: 33

maybe i'm doin' it wrong but i just dont get whats the catch with the AA imbue arrow. I cast fireball on a blank arrow stack and i get 1d8 fire damage on them. What's the point of getting 1d8 fire damage when one can buy such arrows?

It's free. I seriously wish I'd remembered the Imbue feat when levelling up my AA; he was badly lagging in equipment because of all the money flooding away in arrows.

well its free if you are a spellcaster. if not, you have to buy the scrolls which are more expensive than arrows.

It's a choice. Your comparison to cost is similar to a previous post (I forget where) about compensating tumble AC for a toon that doesn't take a dump class, or changing alchemist's fire to something more similar in effect and duration to Flame Weapon. If you want to avoid the cost of scrolls and/or arrows, make an AA that's more caster heavy. If you don't WANT to take more caster levels...whip out your wallet. :twisted:

the money ain't the issue. i was just hoping that there was something more behind imbue arrow feat but a money saver

Quote:

well its free if you are a spellcaster. if not, you have to buy the scrolls which are more expensive than arrows.

Narp, you buy the Battle Horn with Sound Burst 1/day onnit and use that, then keep the one stack it makes topped up for the rest of the day with the ammo bags.

I haven't used the other spells, although I know there's Fireball and Ice Storm dailies.

I agree with your point that it's very underwhelming when set aside the utterly awesome viral AA arrows, which is why I completely forgot about it until I was hunting in the +3 lootbin, by which point it made financial sense to use the expensive ones.

Shame about the AA. It could have been such an interesting class too with imbue arrow. What a cool concept.

The imbue arrow alteration works great on bows with unlimited ammo.

Earth Genasi Barbarian 24/Fighter 4/Rogue 2 build armed with a greataxe and will be taking Epic DR III

Currently he has Power Attack and Cleave, considering Great Cleave. Given he's got a large weapon and deals darn good damage is it worth it to take Great Cleave without going for WM or DevCrit? Or should I just be happy with Cleave?

I should mention he will have other goodies like Knockdown, WF/ImpCrit, Epic Weap Spec, Terrifying Rage, Resist Sonic AND Acid (for lack of anything else to take, though might switch Acid for Fire). Also, I stuck on Epic Prowess though I am considering Epic Fire Resist instead.

edit: After talking to Pidge I've swapped Terrifying for Mighty Rage (though I might take it also as well).

TWO resist energy feats...

Great Cleave is always worth it on a full out fighter. If you must, ditch one of the resist energy feats for it.

Please take epic prowess. If you must have fire resistance, the fire giants belt or helm of brilliance comes to mind. Don't waste the feats

...unless of course, its for your RP then anything goes.

Naivatkal wrote:

edit: After talking to Pidge I've swapped Terrifying for Mighty Rage (though I might take it also as well).

You should take both Mighty and Terrifying Rage. You have space for it.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

TWO resist energy feats...

Great Cleave is always worth it on a full out fighter. If you must, ditch one of the resist energy feats for it.

Please take epic prowess. If you must have fire resistance, the fire giants belt or helm of brilliance comes to mind. Don't waste the feats

...unless of course, its for your RP then anything goes.

Yup yup I actually have enough feats for Great Cleave. I listed pretty much all the feats I have in addition to Great Cleave and such. In fact, here lol

01: Barbarian(1): Power Attack, Cleave
02: Barbarian(2): {Uncanny Dodge I}
03: Barbarian(3): Knockdown
04: Barbarian(4): CON+1, (CON=19)
05: Barbarian(5)
06: Barbarian(6): Great Cleave
07: Barbarian(7)
08: Barbarian(8): CON+1, (CON=20)
09: Barbarian(9): Weapon Focus: Greataxe
10: Barbarian(10)
11: Barbarian(11)
12: Barbarian(12): CON+1, Improved Critical: Greataxe, (CON=21)
13: Barbarian(13)
14: Barbarian(14)
15: Barbarian(15): Resist Energy: Acid
16: Barbarian(16): STR+1, (STR=18)
17: Barbarian(17)
18: Barbarian(18): Resist Energy: Sonic
19: Barbarian(19)
20: Barbarian(20): STR+1, (STR=19)
21: Fighter(1): Epic Damage Reduction I, Epic Damage Reduction II
22: Fighter(2): Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe
23: Fighter(3)
24: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Greataxe, Epic Weapon Specialization: Greataxe, (STR=20)
25: Barbarian(21)
26: Barbarian(22)
27: Barbarian(23): Epic Damage Reduction III
28: Rogue(1): STR+1, (STR=21)
29: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
30: Barbarian(24): Mighty Rage, Terrifying Rage

Terrifying is iffy, might just get Epic Prowess instead. I have to decide if the Rage is more suited for him or not, that's something I'll decide as his RP/story progresses. He's pretty much supposed to be a very tough hunk of rock, like a good Earth Genasi lol
He's there to take a lot of punishment while wailing on things, and so far it's working nicely haha

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

edit: After talking to Pidge I've swapped Terrifying for Mighty Rage (though I might take it also as well).

You should take both Mighty and Terrifying Rage. You have space for it.

Yeah that's what I have been trying to decide. I seriously think he has plenty of DR by level 30 and his AB is going to be tasty already so I can take or leave Epic Prow. Now, if this was the Barb/WM I have been plotting... that's another story haha

Terrifying Rage > Epic Prowess.

Great Cleave is worthless unless you are taking overwhelming crit

Uh... no.

Yes it is. Past about level 7 its utterly worthless. You will not be killing 3 things in 1 hit per round.

Great cleave removes the limitation of cleave. Not worthless.

No blindfight? I'm guessing your stats don't support IKD either?

It still relies on you killing your first cleave target in one hit. Which rarely happens unless you have incredible damage output and/or the target is already damaged. A highly-conditional second extra attack. It's not technically worthless, but there are better feats out there if you don't need it as a prereq.

I'm not sure that's precisely true, Serbiris... my understanding is that Great Cleave lets you take an extra swing whenever you kill something, regardless of whether you killed it in one hit or not. So for example, if you have four attacks per round, and both your first and fourth attacks hit a creature for more HP than it has left, you'd get two extra swings that round with Great Cleave, whereas with Cleave alone you'd only get one. If you're Hasted and dual-wielding and have, say, seven attacks per round, each attack that drops an enemy will net you a free attack, whereas having only Cleave would cap you at one such attack per round. It seems to me that the more attacks per round you have, the better Great Cleave gets.

Edit: Disclaimer: I am a mechanics/build moron. I could very easily be very wrong.

True I suppose, but the benefit is still kind of marginal--you have to kill something pretty early in the round, normal-cleave, then kill something again in the same round, and even then it's probably only one extra attack - bearing in mind that the AB of your attacks is decreasing progressively. If you get all that, you're doing so well that you don't really need the extra great cleave except at low levels when you're taking just as much punishment/slaughtering entire groups in one round/have too few attacks otherwise. So, still not worthless, but you really should be taking better feats.

And not many dual-wielders take great cleave that I know of...

Bah! wtf the lack of Blind Fight has been corrected haha. I cannot believe I left that out.

Lizzie wrote:

I'm not sure that's precisely true, Serbiris... my understanding is that Great Cleave lets you take an extra swing whenever you kill something, regardless of whether you killed it in one hit or not. So for example, if you have four attacks per round, and both your first and fourth attacks hit a creature for more HP than it has left, you'd get two extra swings that round with Great Cleave, whereas with Cleave alone you'd only get one. If you're Hasted and dual-wielding and have, say, seven attacks per round, each attack that drops an enemy will net you a free attack, whereas having only Cleave would cap you at one such attack per round. It seems to me that the more attacks per round you have, the better Great Cleave gets.

Edit: Disclaimer: I am a mechanics/build moron. I could very easily be very wrong.

Also, based on the NWNwiki entry for Great Cleave, this is correct I believe.

This is what I am trying to find out: Number-wise (which easily translates to IC knowledge since a melee based char with reasonable INT [12 in this case] would have an idea on the fundamentals of attempting such a feat) is it worth it at higher levels for a char with full BAB from leveling?

serbiris wrote:

It still relies on you killing your first cleave target in one hit. Which rarely happens unless you have incredible damage output and/or the target is already damaged. A highly-conditional second extra attack. It's not technically worthless, but there are better feats out there if you don't need it as a prereq.

It fixes the bug with Cleave when you have higher APR and thus is completely worth taking.

MoshingChris wrote:

The Balanced Smiter is 23 Paladin 6 CoT 1 Tumble Class

[...]

1 - 20: Paladin 19 CoT 1
Feats: Weapon Focus, Blindfight, Extend Spell, Improved Critical, Knockdown, Great Fort, Lightening Reflexes, Toughness

Yeah, I mean, what would a build with CHA 38 do with Divine Shield or Might?

Cleave a nice addition if you're taking Overwhelming and is orgasmic to level with. When you have five or more APR it fails you almost always, and with four it's still not too reliant.

I knew there was something iffy about what I posted.

Lawl.

TormakSaber wrote:

serbiris wrote:

It still relies on you killing your first cleave target in one hit. Which rarely happens unless you have incredible damage output and/or the target is already damaged. A highly-conditional second extra attack. It's not technically worthless, but there are better feats out there if you don't need it as a prereq.

It fixes the bug with Cleave when you have higher APR and thus is completely worth taking.

what bug exactly?

It's not a bug, per se. Just the fact your character hits too fast. You have to try it out, bro!

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

It's not a bug, per se. Just the fact your character hits too fast. You have to try it out, bro!

I've noticed that somethin corky is going on with cleave and my monk, not sure what, it misses the attack or it doesn't go to the next target or something.

What's happening is that your character is targetting its cleave attack before it realises the current target is already dead. With 4+ attacks its what happens, the speed of attack is too high for cleave to be targetted intelligently. Onto something that is not dead. With great cleave that is 'fixed', you get a second cleave as the first cleave counts as the kill.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Great Cleave a nice addition if you're taking Overwhelming and is orgasmic to level with. When you have five or more APR it fails you almost always, and with four it's still not too reliant.

Fixed my previous comment. Regular Cleave starts misfiring very quickly. Great Cleave isn't foolproof; it solely depends on the occasion, lag, and APR.

Being a caster is expertise or improved expertise worth taking? Heard its glitchy...

Charles1810 wrote:

Being a caster is expertise or improved expertise worth taking? Heard its glitchy...

All Combat Modes in NWN are messed up. They initialize only at the beginning of a combat round (if you are already in combat) and switch off whenever you stop targeting an enemy or move if you did not target an enemy before. I have no idea how it would work for a mage, but even for fighter types the feat tends to be very wonky in PvE and next to useless is PvP unless you are fighting someone stationary.

Apparantly, you used to be able to cast spells while in IE mode. That was removed in one of the patches so, its usefulness has decreased markedly.

Yes expertise and imp expertise were fixed because it is a method of fighting, not a method of casting, so they shut off where appropriate, as for the modes being buggy as shit yes thats been a bioware hardcode staple since day one.

Im thinking of a monk of Kelemvor but im not sure which way to go with it. Im seeing this character as wearing black robes and using a scythe.Monk/SD or Monk/Scythe WM. Dex or Wis for monk? Any advice is always appreciated.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Who is online