AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

Feats? Go for called shot. The called shot legs makes enemies slower and reduces their DEX, perfect for an escape if someones after you. And to counter Mosh's inevitable 'Blind Fight or bust' post: If you need Blind Fights melee benefits as an AA, you're doing something terribly wrong.

Sairia wrote:

Ridiculous as in bad or good? >_>

Ok so, so far we have 9/6/15 or 9/10/11

My question here is: Which on is better as far as the solo/asset to a party? Also what is pre-epic and post epic or does it not really matter?

And feats! I'm guessing Rapid Shot and Point Blank Shot are givens, but are there any others I should look out for? (Of course I include the ones required for the SD levels) Even still though, is SD a better choice than Rogue for the third class since they get more skill points and can set traps?

One of the things I like about traps is it's a cool skill. With her being designed to RP her way out of conflict, I'd like to have the option of using traps as a back up escape plan. Plus one of the times I felt the most useful on Sairia was when everyone in my group died but me, and I put some traps down, kited the mobs over them so I could rez everyone.

I'm willing to give up SD if it means a more effective build PvE/PvP.

Edit: Actually thinking about it: Perhaps Bard/Ranger/AA would be better? Ranger could boost the Bards AB pre-epic (or is that not a problem for AAs?) plus they get set trap and I think Ranger could fit her RP too.

Only Rogues, Rangers, Assassins can lay traps. . . So no traps 4 u. . . Unless you take 1 Skillpoint and get some SkillDumped gear.

StandingBehindYou wrote:

Zeborah wrote:

Eh. I lost what I was talking about with Gill's rebuild.

Should I multiclass my cleric?

[...]

I really suck when it comes to builds.

(Because of the latter comment, this post is going to be pretty basic/obvious -- apologies if it's unnecessary.)

Yes. Clerics get a large benefit out of multiclassing. A class with Tumble as a favored skill effectively gives you +3 AC, which is better than most epic feats. Clerics are particularly feat-starved, so any class that grants bonus feats at low levels are good. Martial weapon proficiency from a class saves you from having to use a feat to be able to use decent weapons. Getting Discipline and UMD favored is also useful.

As far as multi-classing in general, a good way is to think in terms of marginal utility ("what does one more level of this class give you, versus what one more level of another class would give?"). Bear in mind the following "breakpoints:"

Cleric 29: final epic bonus feat
Cleric 27: final Gate upgrade
Cleric 26: second epic bonus feat
Cleric 25: d12 darkfire, become dispel-proof
Cleric 23: first epic bonus feat
Cleric 22: first Gate upgrade
Cleric 20: full number of cleric spell slots; d10 darkfire
Cleric 15: GMW and Magic Vestment become +5; Divine Favor becomes +5; 1d8 darkfire

(If you take the Death domain, the final upgrade for the summon is at level 28.)

Quote:

Should I make it caster or melee?

Entirely your choice. My own opinion is that melee clerics work better, but even a caster cleric can cast a few buffs and become a decent fighter in a group.

Quote:

What skills should I focus on?

Concentration, Spellcraft, Discipline, Tumble, UMD.

Quote:

Do epic spells for Clerics require a WIS minimum?

Yes. From http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=23225&p=644297#p644297:

"NB: Mind that you need a Wis, Int or Cha of at least 20 to be able to cast Epic Spells! This is in your casting stat, so Int for wizards, Cha for Bards/Sorcs, Wis for Druids/Clerics."

When it comes to builds, I have no idea what i'm doing or how to do it. Is there any chance I can get a useful build made in order?

This is how it works....

Build your own, send it here, get critiqued, learn.

Quote:

I don't think so, from what Mosh said.

So, basically you want Epic dodge and epic shadowlord, right? Those are the only prerequisites? And out of curiousity, are you thinking of two weapons, or is one weapon a must?

ehm, well this is a self rebuild, currently 4rg/3ftr, was 14 before rebuild. I have these gloves with ambidexterity/twf/+3 hide, so I don't really want to spend 3 feats when I get two of them for practically free.

so here's what I think I'm looking at...

1-4 rogue
dodge(1)
weapon finesse(3)
5-8 fighter
mobility(5)
exotic(6)
weapon focus(6)
weapon spec(8)
9-12 rogue
blind fight(9)
KD(12)
13-25 shadowdancer
IKD(15)
stealthy(18)
epic hide focus(21)
epic ms focus(24)
epic shadowlord(25)
26-30 rogue
epic weapon focus (27)
crip strike (27)
epic dodge (30)
skill mastery(30)

skill points: 8(ftr)+104(rg)+78(sd)+60(int)+30(lvl1 bonus) = 280
33 hide
33ms
33spot
30tumble
15umd
33disable trap
33set trap
33search
33 open lock
4 lore

So, a fairly typical monk/AA I think. 10 monk/1 Wizard/19 AA But just for confirmation. . .
------------------------------

Str:10 Wis:14
Dex:18 Int:14
Con: 12 Cha:8

1-9 Monk, getting:
Point blank shot[1], weapon finesse[3](in case of disarm, was my thought), WF: Longbow[6], Rapid shot[9].
10 wizard.
11-29 in AA, getting:
imp. crit.[12], called shot[15], and either stealthy or toughness[18].
Epic feats:EWF: Longbow[21], ESF: hide and Great dex I [24], Great dex II [27], Great dex III [28]
30 In Monk. Skill dump in disc and tumble, and getting ESF: Disc.

I'm thinking for skills I'll get hide/ms/disc/listen or spot ((which is better and why?))/ And maybe cross class some in set trap, and rely on items for setting real hard hitting traps. Am I missing anything? Does it look okay?

Thanks =]

Alright... Dropping Gill's rebuild for now in interest of a Paladin.... Aasimar Paladin that is 20 str 20 cha... What do you think....

Paladin(24), Fighter(4), Rogue(1), Human (Aasimar)

STR: 16 (20)
DEX: 8
CON: 14
WIS: 14
INT: 12
CHA: 16 (20)

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Paladin(1): Weapon Proficiency Exotic, Power Attack
02: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil}
03: Paladin(3): Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
04: Paladin(4): CHA+1, (CHA=17)
05: Paladin(5)
06: Paladin(6): Divine Shield
07: Paladin(7)
08: Paladin(8): CHA+1, (CHA=18)
09: Paladin(9): Divine Might
10: Paladin(10)
11: Paladin(11)
12: Paladin(12): CHA+1, Cleave, (CHA=19)
13: Paladin(13)
14: Paladin(14)
15: Paladin(15): Improved Critical: Longsword
16: Paladin(16): CHA+1, (CHA=20)
17: Paladin(17)
18: Paladin(18): Extra Smiting
19: Paladin(19)
20: Paladin(20): STR+1, (STR=17)
21: Paladin(21): Great Strength I, (STR=18)
22: Paladin(22)
23: Paladin(23): Epic Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
24: Fighter(1): STR+1, Epic Fortitude, Epic Prowess, (STR=19)
25: Fighter(2): Armor Skin
26: Fighter(3)
27: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword, Epic Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword
28: Rogue(1): STR+1, (STR=20)
29: Paladin(24)

Eh it's lack-luster with relatively low AB. I'd say go for 26 STR and keep it at 16 CHA. 28 CHA with items will be enough to do what you want.

Jyro X wrote:

Eh it's lack-luster with relatively low AB. I'd say go for 26 STR and keep it at 16 CHA. 28 CHA with items will be enough to do what you want.

*Buzzer sounds.*

Relatively low to what?

25 Base + 11 Mod + 5 GMW + 3 WF/EWF + 1 Aid + 1 Bless + 1 Prayer + 5 Favour + 1 Prowess

= 53 AB.

Versus 3 more AB from Strength at the cost of 2 AC/Damage/Turns and general cool points for not rehashing the same route of Dev Critic pally that everyone does.

MoshingChris wrote:

Jyro X wrote:

Eh it's lack-luster with relatively low AB. I'd say go for 26 STR and keep it at 16 CHA. 28 CHA with items will be enough to do what you want.

*Buzzer sounds.*

Relatively low to what?

25 Base + 11 Mod + 5 GMW + 3 WF/EWF + 1 Aid + 1 Bless + 1 Prayer + 5 Favour + 1 Prowess

= 53 AB.

Versus 3 more AB from Strength at the cost of 2 AC/Damage/Turns and general cool points for not rehashing the same route of Dev Critic pally that everyone does.

3 more AB, 3 more damage and dev crit you mean.

2 AC/Turns of Shield/Might are not going to make you feel very cool when your dev crit counterpart comes up and slices off your head.

And considering it's the build thread, meant to help people be as effective as possible while still fitting with their RP, such cool points are useless.

The guy who doesnt go dev crit gets some feats in epic too.

GreatPigeon wrote:

The guy who doesnt go dev crit gets some feats in epic too.

True enough but you can still go 26 str and get those same feats; just don't take dev crit. The 20 CHA really isn't worth it without Bard/Sorc levels.

Jyro X wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Jyro X wrote:

Eh it's lack-luster with relatively low AB. I'd say go for 26 STR and keep it at 16 CHA. 28 CHA with items will be enough to do what you want.

*Buzzer sounds.*

Relatively low to what?

25 Base + 11 Mod + 5 GMW + 3 WF/EWF + 1 Aid + 1 Bless + 1 Prayer + 5 Favour + 1 Prowess

= 53 AB.

Versus 3 more AB from Strength at the cost of 2 AC/Damage/Turns and general cool points for not rehashing the same route of Dev Critic pally that everyone does.

3 more AB, 3 more damage and dev crit you mean.

2 AC/Turns of Shield/Might are not going to make you feel very cool when your dev crit counterpart comes up and slices off your head.

And considering it's the build thread, meant to help people be as effective as possible while still fitting with their RP, such cool points are useless.

No what your suggesting is to take Dev Crit. You made a statement which i proved false in regards to the AB. I mentioned nothing about Dev Crit being good or bad just refuting the fact that your belief that the AB would be low, when it wont be. He was asking about his build and you were attempting to turn it into an Amian cookie cutter Pally. Thats his decision if he so chooses but you provided a purely erroneous statement in regards to his AB.

Quote:

2 AC/Turns of Shield/Might are not going to make you feel very cool when your dev crit counterpart comes up and slices off your head.

Taurs never been Devved, he's a pally, if you make the critical threat through his AC you still need to beat his fort save of 40. Apart from when he was level 19 and Rikkudai caught him unbuffed which I do believe was just a standard critical for 180 damage.

Edit for Ninja: You can't max out dodge AC solo without a minimum of ten cha modifier.

2 In a row actually

Go hammah power! But yeah, I seen him pvp enough times. Beat a div shield using pally is tough to do.

Ok I've scrapped the AA idea to go for a character I've seen a lot of lately and thought it was really awesome. I want to have my own shifter! So here is what I was thinking, I'd like for it to excel in PvE and be decent in PvP. (Again I consider decent in PvP not the ability to kill anyone and their mother, but the ability to not go down like a sack of flour and perhaps even disable the attacker enough to get away.)

Race: Human

Start Stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 18
Cha: 10

Levels:
1: Druid
2: Druid
3: Druid
4: Druid 19 Wis
5: Druid
6: Shifter
7: Shifter
8: Shifter 20 Wis
9: Shifter
10: Shifter
11: Shifter
12: Shifter 21 Wis
13: Shifter
14: Shifter
15: Shifter
16: Shifter 22 Wis
17: XXXX
18: XXXX
19: XXXX
20: XXXX 23 Wis
21: Shifter Feat: Undead Shape
22: Shifter
23: Shifter
24: Shifter 24 Wis Feat: Greater Wisdom for 25 Wis
25: Shifter
26: Shifter
27: Shifter Outsider Shape Greater Wisdom 26 Wis
28: Shifter 27 Wis
29: Shifter
30: Shifter Construct Shape

My problems: I wondered if a Shifter can RP as being a Shifter, not a druid. Before someone says I'm powerbuilding, if I could be a Shifter with no druid levels I would go that route. Can a Shifter be RP'd as a Shifter instead of a Druid? Secondly: I don't want to have more levels of druid because of the aforementioned reason. What class should I pick? Third: I have no idea what feats to take because I heard shapes get feats and I don't want to waste them. I didn't bother going for Dragon Shape because Dragons aren't my thing. Will this build be good at PvE? What forms should I expect to use most? Etc?

Sairia wrote:

Can a Shifter be RP'd as a Shifter instead of a Druid?

Yup. That's done just like you have, minimizing Druid levels and never using Druid spells, abilities or gear (unless you had UMD and the item wasn't OOC restricted).

I dont really know the ins and outs of Shifter, now its all customized. But Zen Archery is a nice feat to have, with such high Wisdom, even to just get you through the first few levels and giving you something to fall back on when youre all shifted out. Would also be kickass with ranged forms, if there is such a thing.

Bard is a good choice for your XXXXX. Gives Tumble/UMD/Discipline.

SD/CoT/Monk, take your pick.

Level 27+ [Duration: Fixed length 24 Hours]
• Deathless Judge [Good/Neutral]
• Undead Paragon [Evil]

This applies yes?

Not this?

Standingbehindyou wrote:

(If you take the Death domain, the final upgrade for the summon is at level 28.)

It's at 27, yes.

Why does the builders keep pushing for level 28 Cleric then?

To answer your question Svensk. Yes the level 22 upgrade is plenty.

MoshingChris wrote:

Yes the level 22 upgrade is plenty.

Take Death domain, and not go for the last tier? :lol:

Please explain why. Have you tweaked the death summons to the point where the power difference between the two is imsignificant?

I don't think the innate stats of it all is really your business.

It is absolutely a player's business what the features are of class he is considering playing.

If it concerns the overall build advice, it is of relevance to this thread.

StandingBehindYou wrote:

It is absolutely a player's business what the features are of class he is considering playing.

It is a domain feature so its not actually, since you take the Domain for the RP. If you don't, then shame on you.

MoshingChris wrote:

It is a domain feature so its not actually, since you take the Domain for the RP.

lol wut

"Spell casting is a class feature, and so you don't need to know what any of your spells do, since you take the cleric class for the RP."

Please, let's not be advocating good RP so much in a powerbuilding thread. :lol:

StandingBehindYou wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

It is a domain feature so its not actually, since you take the Domain for the RP.

lol wut

"Spell casting is a class feature, and so you don't need to know what any of your spells do, since you take the cleric class for the RP."

Yes thats exactly it. You take the cleric class for RP, you take the domains that fit your diety. Spells/Builds/Summons are all secondary considerations on a roleplay server.

MoshingChris wrote:

Yes thats exactly it. You take the cleric class for RP, you take the domains that fit your diety. Spells/Builds/Summons are all secondary considerations on a roleplay server.

That's nice, but what does that have to do with keeping the rules secret from players? Ignorance does nothing to improve the roleplaying atmosphere. Clearly there's a mechanical side to the game as well, or else we'd all be *emoting* and not bothering to engage with this fancy game engine.

I've also heard of PnP DMs who try to keep the rules secret from their players, and throw a fit if anyone else buys the books. I'm happy to stay away from mental cases like that, and I'm glad that (regardless of how much you might want to keep this information to yourself) it's logistically impossible to impose that here.

Who said anything about keeping them secret? And I don't know why you are debating this with me in the build thread given its not my decision to make either.

MoshingChris wrote:

And I don't know why you are debating this with me in the build thread

I dunno, why don't you ask yourself why you made this post?

MoshingChris wrote:

It is a domain feature so its not actually, since you take the Domain for the RP. If you don't, then shame on you.

That Domain statement is taken out of context and you know it. You take the Domain for the RP, not because it offers you a wowtastic summon. It was that simple.

He wanted to know if 22 levels was enough for the summon to be effective, and I confirmed that it was, so I infact answered his question.

Now you can continue trying to troll me, albiet less succesfully than my autistic five year old cousin can do, to increase your own sense of self fulfillment but i'm done with this. IF you want to change the standing rule I'm obliged to obey, make a new thread.

MoshingChris wrote:

Now you can continue trying to troll me, albiet less succesfully than my autistic five year old cousin can do, to increase your own sense of self fulfillment

EDIT: I originally wrote a pretty rude response to this, but really, you're trying to pick a fight where none was intended.

Now, back to builds.

Next post from either of you gets you both removed from the forum for a week. Cut the flaming.

RE: The actual topic. The mechanical details are none of your business in that regard. You should be picking your summons, spells, domains, and the rest for Roleplay. The purpose of this thread is to help you fulfill that RP Concept utilizing the build. Hence why the name was changed from "Official Powerbuild Thread" to "Official Build and Build Advice Topic".

That means helping you work out your feats, stats, and skills based on your concept. Spells, Summons, Domains and the rest are things you should likewise be choosing based on your character's RP and Concept. Not whether one has X HP vs Y HP.

do you need (epic)spell focus and/or the right school for the level 9 standard spells? (time stoppy spellsword build

) or any of the last few summons?

also are there any oocly epic neutral alignment items that don't suck? all the bastard swords are good or evil, starting to regret my choice of specialization (though can make adamantine and mythal so meh...)

last question, what are the key wizard feats you'd get, i'm a little rusty, infact I still remember how fly works from 2nd ed...and how much charm person killed you in the solo mission from 1st ed........not sure weather to get meta magic or get spell penetration and epicly boost stats. also craft wands a given. and probably scrolls but wands are more important if I need to scrape (bearing in mind the first half of my build is fighter/weapons master so I have zero mage feats until lv14.)

Glyph wrote:

do you need (epic)spell focus and/or the right school for the level 9 standard spells? (time stoppy spellsword build

) or any of the last few summons?

No you don't.

Quote:

also are there any oocly epic neutral alignment items that don't suck? all the bastard swords are good or evil, starting to regret my choice of specialization (though can make adamantine and mythal so meh...)

Yes, for what class?

(You can make as good a weapon as you can get from most stores from greater mythals. "Epic" items you get from bosses then customize further -- there used to a variety of weapons from what I heard, but I think that the only ones that drop now are Surestrike [+5 attack bonus, Keen] and Wonderforged [+4 enhancement, +1d10 physical damage for most one-handed weapons / +2d6 for most two-handed weapons], which have no alignment restriction.)

Quote:

last question, what are the key wizard feats you'd get, i'm a little rusty, infact I still remember how fly works from 2nd ed...and how much charm person killed you in the solo mission from 1st ed........not sure weather to get meta magic or get spell penetration and epicly boost stats. also craft wands a given. and probably scrolls but wands are more important if I need to scrape (bearing in mind the first half of my build is fighter/weapons master so I have zero mage feats until lv14.)

You get scribe scroll for free as a wizard anyway. The key wizard feats are extend and maximize, before anything else. Spell Penetration is available from items, so I would not take that as a feat.

Putting a build together for a buddy of mine.. He's wanting a solid melee character and was interested in trying an earth genasi after deciding golem was a bit much. I thought WM might be the way to go for his playing style.. Two-hander saving up to go Monkey Grip.

Any thoughts or suggestions before I pass it off to him?

Weapon Master(13), Fighter(15), Rogue(1), Human (genasi)

STR: 18 [16 before subrace] (26)
DEX: 14
CON: 16 [14]
WIS: 8 [10]
INT: 14
CHA: 6 [8]

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Dodge, Mobility
02: Fighter(2): Expertise
03: Fighter(3): Power Attack
04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Greatsword, (STR=19)
05: Fighter(5)
06: Fighter(6): Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack
07: Fighter(7)
08: Weapon Master(1): STR+1, Weapon of Choice: Greatsword, (STR=20)
09: Weapon Master(2): Blind Fight
10: Weapon Master(3)
11: Weapon Master(4)
12: Weapon Master(5): STR+1, Cleave, (STR=21)
13: Weapon Master(6)
14: Weapon Master(7)
15: Weapon Master(8): Improved Critical: Greatsword
16: Weapon Master(9): STR+1, (STR=22)
17: Weapon Master(10)
18: Fighter(8): Knockdown, Improved Knockdown
19: Fighter(9)
20: Fighter(10): STR+1, Great Cleave, (STR=23)
21: Weapon Master(11): Great Strength I, (STR=24)
22: Weapon Master(12)
23: Weapon Master(13): Overwhelming Critical: Greatsword
24: Fighter(11): STR+1, Armor Skin, (STR=25)
25: Fighter(12): Devastating Critical: Greatsword
26: Fighter(13)
27: Fighter(14): Epic Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Epic Weapon Specialization: Greatsword
28: Rogue(1): STR+1, (STR=26)
29: Fighter(15)

I would recommend switching from Fighter 15 / Weapon Master 13 / Rogue 1 to Fighter 12 / Weapon Master 16 / Rogue 2.

You get the same number of feats, but your BAB is one point higher and you also get Evasion. [EDIT2: Change that to Rogue 1, and forget the Evasion then.]

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure what human subrace you think gives +2 STR.

StandingBehindYou wrote:

I would recommend switching from Fighter 15 / Weapon Master 13 / Rogue 1 to Fighter 12 / Weapon Master 16 / Rogue 2.

You get the same number of feats, but your BAB is one point higher and you also get Evasion.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure what human subrace you think gives +2 STR.

Earth Genasi

Yurell wrote:

Earth Genasi

Ah, didn't realize those got the human feat. I totally overlooked the part where he left off level 30.

EDIT: I would also consider dropping one point from DEX and two points from CON to start with STR 19 to free up an extra epic feat, but that's your call really.

Drop two points of wisdom and one point of Dex would be better if your wanting to start on 19 strength.

Also pro-tip making a 13/16 weapon master without epic prowess is an excercise in wasted levels.

7 WM 20 Fighter 2 Rogue is pretty much the best efficiency on an Earth Genasi due to the loss of the level 30 epic feat.

13 Fighter 7 WM in pre-epic
7 Fighter (four epic bonus feats) 2 Rogue in epic

With those two extra feats you can take two great strength from standard level-ups and effectively have WM 16 AB and +1 damage.

Starting stats 18 str, 8 dex, 16 con, 12 int, 8 wis, 8 cha (and no he really isn't the brightest or prettiest fellow alive)

Pre-epic Barbarian 20, Feats - PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, Imp Crit, Weapon Focus, Blind Fight, Knockdown.

Epic Fighter 4, Barb 3, Rogue 2, Barb 1 - Great Strength, EWF, Overwhelming Critical, Weapon Spec, EWS, Dev Crit, Terrifying/Thundering Rage.

15(?) skill points left, which hurts, but I can't get the UMD without going 12 int. Probably drop the leftover points into Spot or Set Trap or something remotely harmless.

So, am I doing it right?

MoshingChris wrote:

Drop two points of wisdom and one point of Dex would be better if your wanting to start on 19 strength.

Also pro-tip making a 13/16 weapon master without epic prowess is an excercise in wasted levels.

7 WM 20 Fighter 2 Rogue is pretty much the best efficiency on an Earth Genasi due to the loss of the level 30 epic feat.

13 Fighter 7 WM in pre-epic
7 Fighter (four epic bonus feats) 2 Rogue in epic

With those two extra feats you can take two great strength from standard level-ups and effectively have WM 16 AB and +1 damage.

Revised.

Weapon Master(7), Fighter(20), Rogue(2), Human (earth genasi)

STR: 19 (28)
DEX: 13
CON: 16
WIS: 6
INT: 14
CHA: 6

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Dodge, Mobility
02: Fighter(2): Expertise
03: Fighter(3): Power Attack
04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Greatsword, (STR=20)
05: Fighter(5)
06: Fighter(6): Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack
07: Fighter(7)
08: Weapon Master(1): STR+1, Weapon of Choice: Greatsword, (STR=21)
09: Weapon Master(2): Blind Fight
10: Weapon Master(3)
11: Weapon Master(4)
12: Weapon Master(5): STR+1, Cleave, (STR=22)
13: Weapon Master(6)
14: Weapon Master(7)
15: Fighter(8): Improved Critical: Greatsword, Knockdown
16: Fighter(9): STR+1, (STR=23)
17: Fighter(10): Improved Knockdown
18: Fighter(11): Great Cleave
19: Fighter(12): Improved Expertise
20: Fighter(13): STR+1, (STR=24)
21: Fighter(14): Great Strength I, Overwhelming Critical: Greatsword, (STR=25)
22: Fighter(15)
23: Fighter(16): Devastating Critical: Greatsword
24: Fighter(17): STR+1, Armor Skin, (STR=26)
25: Fighter(18): Epic Weapon Focus: Greatsword
26: Fighter(19)
27: Rogue(1): Great Strength II, (STR=27)
28: Rogue(2): STR+1, {Evasion}, (STR=28)
29: Fighter(20): Epic Weapon Specialization: Greatsword

Hitpoints: 340
Skillpoints: 172
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 16/9/14
Saving Throw bonuses:
BAB: 25
AB (max, naked): 38 (melee), 26 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 19/30
Spell Casting:
Alignment Changes: 0

Discipline 32(41), Intimidate 5(4), Tumble 30(31), UMD 31(30), remaining skillpoints 38

1) Where would we suggest the remaining skillpoints go, and 2) How do we feel about Improved Expertise as a feat? I wound up with an extra pre-epic feat this way as well.

Zeborah wrote:

Alright... Dropping Gill's rebuild for now in interest of a Paladin.... Aasimar Paladin that is 20 str 20 cha... What do you think....

Paladin(24), Fighter(4), Rogue(1), Human (Aasimar)

[blabla]

You're missing Extend spell and Blind fight. Both are worth epic feats on a Pally, but you might just as well drop Cleave and Extra smiting.

And 23/4/2 is just better. Pally24 only gets +1 CL, Rogue2 gets Evasion.

brooksthegreat wrote:

1) Where would we suggest the remaining skillpoints go, and 2) How do we feel about Improved Expertise as a feat? I wound up with an extra pre-epic feat this way as well.

1) Nowhere. INT modifier +1 means you get three skills to max. You don't get the feat Skilled.

2) It's useful to you in solo PvM, but in a party you'd make the best use having Improved Power Attack.

They would hate me for saying this, but I would take 1 level of rogue first. This would give you a whole 1 more skill to max out. At the cost of -1ab. Max spot for that. Yes.

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