AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

what's the most cheesiest build, so cheesy that everybody wants to vomit on it.

Please die, the end

There are a few builds that'll nab the fourth attack. Many people have asked me for this build so I figured I'd post it here.

14 Dwarven Defender 10 Shifter 6 Druid.

Head for Risen Lord Shape and epic damage reduction. The issue with this build is lack of UMD and severe lack of shifter levels for the improved forms. However it is the heaviest amount of DR you can achieve on Amia.

50 percent slashing immunity (60 percent immunity with certain items)
50 percent piercing immunity (35 percent immunity with certain items)
25 (50?) percent bludgeoning vulnerability (15 - 40 percent vuln with certain items)
9/- epic DR
9/- DwD reduction
5/- piercing resist
5/- slashing resist
10/- bludgeoning resist

Sits pretty on 39 - 40 AB shifted and a tad higher unshifted.

15strength (raise to 18)
13dex
18con (raise to 22)
13int
11wis
6cha

Pre-epic feats: Alertness, Exotic WP, WF Scythe, Dodge, Toughness, Disarm, Improved Disarm (or critical)

Epic Feats: Epic Weapon focus scythe, Undead Shape , Epic DR III

Level ordering is 6 Druid 4 Shifter 11 DwD 6 Shifter 3 DwD.

TeroSNS wrote:

what's the most cheesiest build, so cheesy that everybody wants to vomit on it.

Thread is one step closer to being annihilated and not returning.

Quote:

what's the most cheesiest build, so cheesy that everybody wants to vomit on it.

28pally/1bard/1druid

Palemaster wrote:

28pally/1bard/1druid

lol!

TeroSNS wrote:

what's the most cheesiest build, so cheesy that everybody wants to vomit on it.

Well you're going to want to grab the 15 levels of douchebagery to develope the necessary mindset required to take the 13 levels of cheese ball of insufferable presence. Oh, then grab two rogue for Imp. Evasion + Tumble dump.

MoshingChris wrote:

14 Dwarven Defender 10 Shifter 6 Druid.

Why so much strength?
Also, it is 50% bludgeoning vulnerability, and you forgot to list the 10/+6 DR.

bard/rdd/pm ............

also paladin/bard/pm, but that can't happen here.

more on topic, its pretty specific to the end result, no option of any of the other epic shapes, with wisdom 11 you'd only get level 1 druid spells. other than that I imagine DD works well with shifter, but I don't see why 6 druid, you can grab shifter in 5

6 Druid is 4 BAB
4 shifter is 3 BAB
10 DWD is 10 BAB

otherwise
5 druid is 3 bab
5 shifter is 3 bab

dwd requires +7 bab

wereguy2 wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

14 Dwarven Defender 10 Shifter 6 Druid.

Why so much strength?
Also, it is 50% bludgeoning vulnerability, and you forgot to list the 10/+6 DR.

So you can fight un-shifted with a somewhat decent AB

And no I didn't forget the 10/+6 since it doesn't have it.

why would you want to lower your piercing immunity?

Does Dragonfrom get 10/+6? or is that 10/+5..?

TeroSNS wrote:

why would you want to lower your piercing immunity?

Because piercing damage is generally far lower than slashing and bludgeoning damage, and certain items on the server generally have -25 percent pierce vuln. Its a gimmick build so I personally wouldn't waste DC's on it.

TeroSNS wrote:

what's the most cheesiest build, so cheesy that everybody wants to vomit on it.

They're pretty much all defunct now in terms of power. Dragonmonks only get the better APR, Bard/Sorc/Cleric gains as much from a couple of Ftr levels as from Pally(well, the Fear immunity is handy) or BG. The Devcrit nerf has taken the appeal of RDD4 down a good few notches, and melee Palemasters were never that good in the first place, aside from the one I'm not telling you about that so far I haven't seen played anyway.

All that's left is HiPS spam and thanks to Terra it's got a big fat target on its chest.

Really, the only cheese builds that annoy me are the ones that build and gearset for a bajillion Bluff/Persuade/Intimidate and try to force RP via the diebag.

Yes, More and more cheese builds = gimped builds. More and more it's going to be wiser for you to go for a character that excels in one or two areas, but doesn't do well at all in others. More and more people will be relying on the functionality of another's build to accomplish things. More and more Amia will get better!

Tada someone finally got the point of the balance changes, its to make a multi-player game. . .more multi-player orientated not to kill your builds but to enhance the reliance on other players.

And it does more for it than make it more multi-player! For RP that has a tendency to lead to PvP, the winner isn't necessarily going to be the guy who knows how to build and has done all the research (Even though at this point they definitely have an advantage. And I don't really see that going away all-together. But that is what this thread is supposed to be for.), it's going to be more and more likely the guy or gal with the better team. With people of various skills and talents that mesh well together. This will mean someone who isn't so nifty with building is going to have a better chance on the combat-prone Amia -and- it's going to direct RP in an entirely different direction. More reliance on other people and being a team is going to do great things for role-play.

heh I dunno...when it comes to the nerfing of cheese builds, bard has been relatively untouched.

Rosencrantz wrote:

Does Dragonfrom get 10/+6? or is that 10/+5..?

50/+4... Useless in PvP and against most spawns. I really think it should be 10/+6...

Uberuce wrote:

All that's left is HiPS spam and thanks to Terra it's got a big fat target on its chest.

YES PLEASE!

MoshingChris wrote:

So you can fight un-shifted with a somewhat decent AB

And no I didn't forget the 10/+6 since it doesn't have it.

This would mean that you would have to invest in items catering to fighting unshifted; more AC etc. This would make fighting shifted less effective, and that is the field that should be focussed on.

Really?? I was certain it did; when I use it, I tend to take no - or very small amounts of - damage, which is impossible without DR...

Rosencrantz wrote:

Does Dragonfrom get 10/+6? or is that 10/+5..?

25/+4.

I was thinking a classic, Rogue/Assassin/Shadowdancer

But I have never made an assassin kinda guy. Help?

wereguy2 wrote:

Rosencrantz wrote:

Does Dragonfrom get 10/+6? or is that 10/+5..?

50/+4... Useless in PvP and against most spawns. I really think it should be 10/+6...

Uberuce wrote:

All that's left is HiPS spam and thanks to Terra it's got a big fat target on its chest.

YES PLEASE!

MoshingChris wrote:

So you can fight un-shifted with a somewhat decent AB

And no I didn't forget the 10/+6 since it doesn't have it.

This would mean that you would have to invest in items catering to fighting unshifted; more AC etc. This would make fighting shifted less effective, and that is the field that should be focussed on.

Really?? I was certain it did; when I use it, I tend to take no - or very small amounts of - damage, which is impossible without DR...

The build specifically caters towards PvBoss rather than PvM or PvP. You will spend 90 percent of the levelling process fighting unshifted since you cannot take risenlord shape til 27. You are still a tank unshifted.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

25/+4.

Yeah, just realised... That's... even worse.

Also, just realised that, yes, I don't have 10/+6 in Risen Lord shape anymore... Bleh.

You've got 10/+6, the problem was the form also had some mundane RESISTANCE along with reduction and immunity. I want to revist some shifter stuff when we get a chance.

Risenlord had 10/+6?. I thought you guys didn't touch it, bar adding the vuln and the special effect. Figured it was still the bioware standard 20/+3?

It was meant to be tanky so I hgvave it 10/+6. It's on the spreadsheet. I was dumb and forgot that stuff like epic damage reduction doesn't ad to that though so it should really probably be 10/- all resists, the vulnerabilities, and then whatever reduction from items or your feats.

Hrmmm.

Personally I would just leave it with something like a 50/+4 reduction. Just because I believe folks should be gear setting resistance to their chaps not getting it as an innate ability. But thats a discussion for a post Balance/Rage fix day.

Any ideas about how to build a BG with Great Smite ? Since BGs are vs good alignments I was wondering to max it's peculiarity with Great Smite. Since I'm used to build Dev, I have no idea how to build it.

At first, something with Cleric and BG's levels ?

alamut wrote:

Any ideas about how to build a BG with Great Smite ? Since BGs are vs good alignments I was wondering to max it's peculiarity with Great Smite. Since I'm used to build Dev, I have no idea how to build it.

At first, something with Cleric and BG's levels ?

Well... this is the exact question I asked before. It came down to this... BG smiters blow. A BG doesnt get the raw backing in spells and buffs like a Paladin to make up for the loss of Str. Now Cleric might help but it decreases your smiting ability and damage by so much it might not be worth it since you have to give up soooo many bg levels for Cleric to get anything good from it.

Maverick00053 wrote:

alamut wrote:

Any ideas about how to build a BG with Great Smite ? Since BGs are vs good alignments I was wondering to max it's peculiarity with Great Smite. Since I'm used to build Dev, I have no idea how to build it.

At first, something with Cleric and BG's levels ?

Well... this is the exact question I asked before. It came down to this... BG smiters blow. A BG doesnt get the raw backing in spells and buffs like a Paladin to make up for the loss of Str. Now Cleric might help but it decreases your smiting ability and damage by so much it might not be worth it since you have to give up soooo many bg levels for Cleric to get anything good from it.

I don't know why you just don't stick with the Build you've got now Alamut. The Balance Change really had no effect on BG's other than taking away the ability to one-shot with Dev and that was taken away from everyone.

if the feats have been altered, why on the left of this page under modifications: Feats there are only the crafting feats?

Because Disco controls that stuff and we are still Bug Testing and changing our changes. Give it some time and everything shall be updated.

ok, cool

Oh yeah, this reminds me. Is it just me, or is a lot of the information on the sidebar really inaccurate? Two examples; firstly, I have never seen a BG summon a Balor or an Infernal (Also, isn't an Infernal... obscenely powerful?). Secondly, my PM, who has 18 Wizard and PM levels, still only summons a basic Wraith with his Animate Dead...

Please forgive me if this has been brought up recently, but I have noticed that whilst shifting into the standard 7 levels of shifter Kobold Kommando, the form now overrides my strength which I could swear it never did before. Can anyone verify this?

My Sovereign wrote:

I was thinking a classic, Rogue/Assassin/Shadowdancer

But I have never made an assassin kinda guy. Help?

Bump?

Depends on what you actually want. 14 rogue/10 assassin/6 SD will work. 10/10/10 will work. None of them are really great due to low BAB and really funky skill point layouts and class skills.

Yeah I've been playing a 11 rogue,10SD,9 assassin for a year now. Grant it I can count the number of nwn characters I have created on two hands, but I really enjoy my dancer. Although I can't really solo much

NAUX wrote:

Please forgive me if this has been brought up recently, but I have noticed that whilst shifting into the standard 7 levels of shifter Kobold Kommando, the form now overrides my strength which I could swear it never did before. Can anyone verify this?

Yes this is intended, in the amia shifter changed all shapes that merged a base physical stat to now override those stats. On the whole, this is a good thing, though it did kill a couple of niche shifter builds. Basically wisdom is the only stat worth boosting, unless you're going for epic damage reduction feats.

Xanrick wrote:

NAUX wrote:

Please forgive me if this has been brought up recently, but I have noticed that whilst shifting into the standard 7 levels of shifter Kobold Kommando, the form now overrides my strength which I could swear it never did before. Can anyone verify this?

Yes this is intended, in the amia shifter changed all shapes that merged a base physical stat to now override those stats. On the whole, this is a good thing, though it did kill a couple of niche shifter builds. Basically wisdom is the only stat worth boosting, unless you're going for epic damage reduction feats.

Wait just one minute! why do you have my avatar!! Is disco recycling animal avatars!!

My Sovereign wrote:

I was thinking a classic, Rogue/Assassin/Shadowdancer

But I have never made an assassin kinda guy. Help?

Bump?

Weak BAB, low saves, lack of shield usage and only three attacks per round. My short opinion: don't do it. If you want to play a PC with Assassin levels, don't take Shadowdancer levels. If you want to play a PC with Rogue levels, don't take Assassin levels.

Maybe 9 Ranger/6 SD/15 Assassin?

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Weak BAB, low saves, lack of shield usage and only three attacks per round. My short opinion: don't do it. If you want to play a PC with Assassin levels, don't take Shadowdancer levels. If you want to play a PC with Rogue levels, don't take Assassin levels.

bab is something to consider, and the saves, but the shield using and three attacks per round are not too much of a weakness to a hips spamming shadowdancer...

Let's not 'Encourage' Hips spamming, OK?

I just stated that why bother with shield and attacks/round, when you can just use hips.

I had really good luck with a rogue 17/wm 7/sd 6. It's feat-tight, but the WM helps make the BAB not completely suck eggs and it nabs Epic Dodge. I was running the build with dual handaxes which made for some nastiness when she got a crit and a sneak.

TeroSNS wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Weak BAB, low saves, lack of shield usage and only three attacks per round. My short opinion: don't do it. If you want to play a PC with Assassin levels, don't take Shadowdancer levels. If you want to play a PC with Rogue levels, don't take Assassin levels.

bab is something to consider, and the saves, but the shield using and three attacks per round are not too much of a weakness to a hips spamming shadowdancer...

Because it's kinda lame, because any PC/monster with detection will utterly stomp all over your face, and because it's destined to change in the future.

Half a year ago or so, there was some rumors that the assassin class would soon get some loving from the admin, due to the fact that its kinda a sucky class. Was this chancled again, or maybe it was just rumors..

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