AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Don't worry. The actual domain summons are unchanged, but are now split between Death and Repose domains. If you take the new Repose domain (if your deity allows it) you will always summon non-undead. If you retain the Death domain (if your deity allows it) you will always summon undead.

So, no Undeath Domain?

Yeah there is, but it doesn't give you a domain summon.

It gives you multiple summons, right?

Also, i think Phalanxyrian was more concerned with the fact that he is no longer going to have Death domain, because he worships Auril, and Death is not an Aurilite Domain, therefore his current Necromental summon will be lost!

Nah. You do get a couple of undead summon spells a level earlier than normal as you might expect and there is another effect on top that will be revealed when it's time.

Phylanxrian's skin can be moved free of charge to another summon. The DM team will work with him on it when the time comes.

I'm not actually irritated... just fyi!

Joy, in that case I cant wait

. I hope Auril gets useful domains.

Another post clearly resembling Svensk's and caring about nothing except how strong the new domains are. Suddenly I regret extending courtesy.

There's been a big improvement across the board, so that if you have a concept for a cleric of a particular deity, you're almost never going to be going "hmm, now I wish I had picked that deity over there because it supports those cool domains."

Yeah, there are a few domains that haven't been changed, but that's only because they were so damn good to start with.

So, the current domains are being changed also?

Yups, pretty much all of them.

phalanxyrian wrote:

Joy, in that case I cant wait

. I hope Auril gets useful domains.

Aurils domains were never useless.

Are there any changes to the domains granted powers or just spells?

There are a couple of domains with abilities they didn't have before, yes.

Is there a list of gods and their new set of Domains available yet?

Yes if Sune feels they should be posted then I'll let Sune do it.

All right, I don't see the harm. Our deity system page will hold this stuff later on.

Amia Deities:

Abbathor:

Dwarf, Evil, Hatred, Luck, Trade, Trickery

Aerdrie Faenya:

Air, Animal, Chaos, Elf, Good, Renewal

Akadi:

Air, Animal, Illusion, Portal, Travel, Trickery

Angharradh:

Chaos, Elf, Good, Knowledge, Plant, Renewal

Anhur:

Air, Chaos, Courage, Good, Strength, War

Arvoreen:

Courage, Good, Halfling, Law, Protection, War

Auril:

Air, Cold, Destruction, Evil, Suffering, Water

Azuth:

Illusion, Knowledge, Law, Magic, Rune, Spell

Bahamut:

Air, Cold, Dragon, Good, Law, Protection

Bahgtru:

Chaos, Evil, Hatred, Orc, Strength, War

Bane:

Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Law, Strength, Tyranny

Baravar Cloakshadow:

Darkness, Gnome, Good, Illusion, Protection, Trickery

Berronar Truesilver:

Community, Dwarf, Good, Healing, Law, Protection

Beshaba:

Charm, Chaos, Evil, Fate, Luck, Trickery

Brandobaris:

Charm, Halfling, Illusion, Luck, Travel, Trickery

Callarduran Smoothhands:

Cavern, Craft, Earth, Gnome, Plant, Travel

Chauntea:

Animal, Earth, Good, Plant, Protection, Renewal

Clangeddin Silverbeard:

Courage, Dwarf, Good, Law, Strength, War

Corellon Larethian:

Chaos, Elf, Good, Magic, Protection, War

Cyric:

Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Illusion, Trickery

Cyrrollalee:

Community, Craft, Good, Halfling, Law, Travel

Deep Duerra:

Cavern, Dwarf, Evil, Knowledge, Law, War

Deep Sashelas:

Chaos, Elf, Good, Knowledge, Travel, Water

Dugmaren Brightmantle:

Chaos, Craft, Dwarf, Good, Knowledge, Rune

Dumathoin:

Cavern, Craft, Dwarf, Earth, Knowledge, Protection

Eilistraee:

Chaos, Charm, Drow, Good, Moon, Portal

Eldath:

Balance, Community, Good, Plant, Protection, Water

Erevan Ilesere:

Charm, Chaos, Elf, Illusion, Luck, Trickery

Faluzure:

Death, Dragon, Evil, Darkness, Magic, Undeath

Fenmarel Mestarine:

Animal, Chaos, Darkness, Elf, Plant, Travel

Garagos:

Chaos, Destruction, Hatred, Retribution, Strength, War

Gargauth:

Charm, Evil, Knowledge, Law, Trickery, Tyranny

Garl Glittergold:

Craft, Gnome, Good, Law, Protection, Trickery

Geb:

Cavern, Craft, Earth, Knowledge, Protection, Strength

Ghaunadaur:

Cavern, Chaos, Drow, Evil, Hatred, Slime

Gond:

Craft, Earth, Fire, Knowledge, Trade, Rune

Gorm Gulthym:

Dwarf, Good, Law, Protection, Strength, War

Grazzt:

Chaos, Charm, Evil, Knowledge, Trickery, War

Grumbar:

Balance, Cavern, Earth, Rune, Strength, Time

Gruumsh:

Cavern, Chaos, Evil, Orc, Strength, War

Haela Brightaxe:

Chaos, Community, Dwarf, Good, Luck, War

Hanali Celanil:

Chaos, Charm, Elf, Good, Magic, Protection

Hathor:

Animal, Community, Good, Fate, Moon, Protection

Helm:

Community, Law, Nobility, Protection, Strength, War

Hoar:

Evil, Good, Fate, Law, Retribution, Travel

Horus Re:

Courage, Good, Law, Nobility, Retribution, Sun

Ilmater:

Good, Healing, Law, Renewal, Strength, Suffering

Ilneval:

Courage, Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Orc, War

Isis:

Air, Community, Good, Magic, Plant, Water

Istishia:

Air, Cold, Destruction, Magic, Travel, Water

Jergal:

Death, Fate, Law, Repose, Rune, Suffering

Kelemvor:

Fate, Law, Nobility, Protection, Repose, Travel

Kiaransalee:

Chaos, Drow, Evil, Magic, Retribution, Undeath

Kossuth:

Destruction, Fire, Magic, Portal, Renewal, Suffering

Kurtulmak:

Craft, Evil, Law, Luck, Scalykind, Trickery

Labelas Enoreth:

Chaos, Elf, Good, Knowledge, Rune, Time

Laduguer:

Craft, Dwarf, Evil, Law, Magic, Protection

Lathander:

Good, Nobility, Protection, Renewal, Strength, Sun

Lliira:

Chaos, Charm, Community, Good, Travel

Lolth:

Chaos, Drow, Evil, Darkness, Destruction, Trickery

Loviatar:

Evil, Law, Retribution, Strength, Suffering

Luthic:

Cavern, Earth, Evil, Community, Healing, Orc

Maglubiyet:

Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Trickery, Tyranny, War

Malar:

Animal, Chaos, Evil, Moon, Strength, Suffering

Marthammor Duin:

Community, Dwarf, Good, Protection, Strength, Travel

Mask:

Charm, Darkness, Evil, Luck, Travel, Trickery

Mephistopheles:

Evil, Fire, Knowledge, Law, Rune, Spell

Mielikki:

Animal, Good, Moon, Plant, Sun, Travel

Milil:

Charm, Good, Illusion, Knowledge, Nobility, Trickery

Moradin:

Craft, Dwarf, Earth, Good, Law, Protection

Mystra:

Good, Illusion, Knowledge, Magic, Rune, Spell

Nephthys:

Chaos, Good, Protection, Renewal, Trade, Travel

Nobanion:

Animal, Community, Courage, Good, Law, Nobility

Oberon:

Charm, Chaos, Good, Illusion, Nobility, Trickery

Oghma:

Balance, Charm, Knowledge, Luck, Travel, Trickery

Orcus:

Chaos, Darkness, Death, Destruction, Evil, Undeath

Osiris:

Good, Law, Plant, Repose, Renewal, Retribution

Queen of Air and Darkness:

Air, Chaos, Darkness, Evil, Illusion, Trickery

Red Knight:

Knowledge, Law, Nobility, Protection, Strength, War

Rillifane Rallathil:

Chaos, Elf, Good, Plant, Protection, Renewal

Salandra:

Balance, Community, Healing, Good, Protection, Renewal

Savras:

Dream, Fate, Knowledge, Law, Magic, Spell

Sehanine Moonbow:

Chaos, Dream, Elf, Good, Illusion, Moon

Selune:

Chaos, Dream, Good, Moon, Protection, Travel

Selvetarm:

Chaos, Drow, Evil, Hatred, Strength, War

Set:

Air, Darkness, Evil, Hatred, Law, Scalykind

Shar:

Cavern, Charm, Darkness, Evil, Knowledge, Trickery

Sharess:

Chaos, Charm, Good, Protection, Travel, Trickery

Sharindlar:

Chaos, Charm, Dwarf, Good, Healing, Moon

Shaundakul:

Air, Chaos, Portal, Protection, Trade, Travel

Sheela Peryroyl:

Air, Charm, Earth, Illusion, Halfling, Plant

Shevarash:

Chaos, Elf, Hatred, Retribution, Strength, War

Siamorphe:

Charm, Community, Knowledge, Law, Nobility, Protection

Silvanus:

Animal, Balance, Plant, Protection, Renewal, Water

Solonor Thelandira:

Animal, Chaos, Elf, Good, Plant, War

Sune:

Chaos, Charm, Community, Fire, Good, Protection

Talona:

Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Slime, Suffering

Talos:

Air, Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Retribution

Tempus:

Chaos, Courage, Protection, Retribution, Strength, War

Thoth:

Craft, Knowledge, Moon, Magic, Rune, Spell

Tiamat:

Dragon, Evil, Law, Scalykind, Strength, Tyranny

Titania:

Charm, Chaos, Good, Illusion, Magic, Nobility

Torm:

Courage, Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Strength

Tymora:

Chaos, Good, Luck, Protection, Travel, Trickery

Tyr:

Good, Knowledge, Law, Retribution, Strength, War

Ulutiu:

Animal, Law, Cold, Community, Protection, Strength

Umberlee:

Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Hatred, Retribution, Water

Urdlen:

Chaos, Darkness, Earth, Evil, Gnome, Hatred

Urogalan:

Earth, Halfling, Knowledge, Law, Protection, Repose

Uthgar:

Animal, Chaos, Courage, Retribution, Strength, War

Valkur:

Air, Chaos, Good, Protection, Water, War

Velsharoon:

Death, Evil, Knowledge, Magic, Spell, Undeath

Vergadain:

Craft, Dwarf, Luck, Rune, Trade, Trickery

Vhaeraun:

Charm, Chaos, Drow, Evil, Travel, Trickery

Waukeen:

Balance, Knowledge, Portal, Protection, Trade, Travel

Yondalla:

Community, Good, Halfling, Law, Protection, Renewal

I noticed some of the Gods have Domains that aren't cannon. Eg, Kelemvor and Nobility, and Velsharoon and Knowledge. I'm assuming this is intentional to give more choice and variability around Clerics?

If a deity didn't have 6 domains, domains were added to give them 6.

Lliira:
Chaos, Charm, Community, Good, Travel

Loviatar:
Evil, Law, Retribution, Strength, Suffering

These two are missing one...

I would like to say that this entire thing is incredibly awesome.

I hesitate to mention it but I have sort of noticed something about one of the choices. Namely Oberon's domains - they don't really seem to match what little I know of the god, particularly the lack of animal domain (since he's supposedly the fey lord of beasts), and the inclusion of both illusion and trickery- from what I've read, those seem to be more Titania's domain, Oberon seems a bit more suited to say, protection. Of course, animal & protection is what he had before, so the entire shift seems rather drastic and intentional. Possibly to give the seelies a more consistent domain set? Possibly my sources are just bad?

Thought I should mention it, in case it was an oversight... gonna go hide somewhere...

TormakSaber wrote:

Another post clearly resembling Svensk's and caring about nothing except how strong the new domains are. Suddenly I regret extending courtesy.

Since my first answer wasnt posted, here goes again.

My worry is that players like myself, the veterans, will aquire the info about powers and stats fairly easy by ttesting etc, while the average player and occasional rookie may not.
So in the spirit of fair play and equal oppertunity i believe the stats and powers should be made public.

serbiris wrote:

I would like to say that this entire thing is incredibly awesome.

I hesitate to mention it but I have sort of noticed something about one of the choices. Namely Oberon's domains - they don't really seem to match what little I know of the god, particularly the lack of animal domain (since he's supposedly the fey lord of beasts), and the inclusion of both illusion and trickery- from what I've read, those seem to be more Titania's domain, Oberon seems a bit more suited to say, protection. Of course, animal & protection is what he had before, so the entire shift seems rather drastic and intentional. Possibly to give the seelies a more consistent domain set? Possibly my sources are just bad?

Thought I should mention it, in case it was an oversight... gonna go hide somewhere...

Nope, you're actually quite right. Oberon is one of the main fey of nature. I was a bit caught off guard by his domains too, if I'm honest. He's probably -thee- fey that doesn't rely on illusion and sneaky tactics in battle. He's officially a patron of nature, wild places and animals, in fact. He spends most his time hunting and leaving the Court stuff to his lady, who is much more intelligent and wiser than he is. He enjoys the elements and the hunt.

serbiris wrote:

I would like to say that this entire thing is incredibly awesome.

I hesitate to mention it but I have sort of noticed something about one of the choices. Namely Oberon's domains - they don't really seem to match what little I know of the god, particularly the lack of animal domain (since he's supposedly the fey lord of beasts), and the inclusion of both illusion and trickery- from what I've read, those seem to be more Titania's domain, Oberon seems a bit more suited to say, protection. Of course, animal & protection is what he had before, so the entire shift seems rather drastic and intentional. Possibly to give the seelies a more consistent domain set? Possibly my sources are just bad?

Thought I should mention it, in case it was an oversight... gonna go hide somewhere...

Nothing to feel awkward about. If you see an issue with something, better to point it out now, before characters are adjusted, rather than later, which might force people to rebuild (Or however this will work) again if their domain choices are invalidated.

Personally, I can't see too much that isn't sitting wrong with me regarding the deities I've taken an interest in the past. Although the choice of Air and Magic for Istishia doesn't seem fitting. I guess Air is Storm domain incognito, so I'll let that slide. But I'd like something more abstract to fit with his dogma, such as Fate, Repose or Time. Although if Repose has the power to summon some sort of zombie, not so much.

Re. Oberon. Quote from Monster Mythology: "Oberon relies less on illusion, camouflage, and the like more than most other sylvan gods. He is quite ready to offer physical force to those who attack or persecute faerie folk."

No domains are listed, its from 2E mechanics. I would suggest Animal and strength.

Very_Svensk wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Another post clearly resembling Svensk's and caring about nothing except how strong the new domains are. Suddenly I regret extending courtesy.

Since my first answer wasnt posted, here goes again.

My worry is that players like myself, the veterans, will aquire the info about powers and stats fairly easy by ttesting etc, while the average player and occasional rookie may not.
So in the spirit of fair play and equal oppertunity i believe the stats and powers should be made public.

I wrote a long-winded rant about this, but then I just decided to delete it and say:

Your reply sounds like an excuse to try and justify your gaming mentality.

lots of assumptions there.

No, all I'm saying is that you take the hard work and unpaid hours of work that the DMs and builders put into giving diversity and flavor and immersion to your gaming experience and spin it into "What's the most powerful one?"

I'm not even one of the DMs and everytime someone does that, it offends -me-.

No, he said that he is worried that it will not be fair among the players.

I would imagine your accusations are more offending to him than Svensk's proposition is to you.

Take stuff that suits your character. No matter what it does.

Right, well, lets leave that there. No need to be discussing mechanics just yet, lets finalise these domains first. And they should be decided purely on conceptual terms, rather than people arguing on the basis of the spells they want for their PC.

Let me go back to Istishia. I gave it one sentence up there, thats probably not enough to convince whoever is pushing the buttons that I'm right.

Akadi, as well as representing Air, represents freedom. She has the Travel domain.

Her antithesis Grumbar, as well as representing Earth, represents solidity. He has the Time domain.

Kossuth, as well as representing Fire, has the whole burn-it-down-and-start-again thing. He has the Renewal domain.

His antithesis Istishia, follows the ideal that you is what you is. Dont pretend that you're not. Additionally, his dogma includes the line "Realize that the cycles of life are mirrored by the cycles of fate; be prepared to pay the price or reap the reward for the actions of your past or your future." Hoartastic.

Fate domain plz. Scratch Magic.

Looking forward to these changes, even if my little Loviatarian Warpriest might not have Haste/Imp Invis anymore.

The amount of time and effort that's been put into this implementation is well appreciated.

Balance not Fate yo.

Well, ok. Point made, youve got a better idea of what these domains represent with your knowledge of the powers and spells hiding behind these words. Balance, or Fate. Not Magic.

Next in the crosshairs?

Callarduran Smoothhands:
Cavern, Craft, Earth, Gnome, Plant, Travel

The first 4 are his actual domains. The last 2, I don't get.

I presume the Plant domain is a reference to mushrooms. Which is not an especially relevant part of Smurf culture, paling in significance when compared to gem(esp. ruby) mining.

Travel I don't understand at all.

I would suggest replacing those 2 with Protection (From the Drow and other ever present dangers of the UD), and Illusion (or Magic).

That would make all the (represented on Amia) Gnome deities have the Gnome, Illusion/Trickery, and Protection domains. Which is a good thing. Its a big, bad world out there for the forgotten folk. And theyre happy enough to be hiding from it while they do their own thing. Thats the way it works for Gnomes. Especially gnomes with Drow for neighbours.

Alternatively, Community.

Garl Glittergold:
Craft, Gnome, Good, Law, Protection, Trickery.

Right. Well, the domains listed here are a perfect match for his entry in Faiths and Pantheons. So...fine?

Maybe not. The problem here is that when Faiths and Pantheons was written, there was no such thing as the Community domain, which was introduced in a later sourcebook. And Garl should absolutely definetly positively have the Community domain! If there's a hard limit of 6 - even for a Greater Deity - I would sacrifice Law and fit that in. The Law aspect of the Gnome belief belongs more to Gaerdal Ironhand. Who isn't on this list, but might be one day.

Garl wrote:

While life may sometimes be hard, it is important to keep a sense of humor and always welcome opportunities for laughter and delight. Communities are forged through the cooperation and communal spirit of a group of individuals who work and play together. The strength of a community is the cooperation that binds individuals into more than the sum of their contributions. A great prank can help to lighten hard times and make good ones shine. Those who are in authority should never take themselves too seriously, or they lose touch with those they direct and care for. Teach and preserve the tales and traditions of the Forgotten Folk, so that they are never forgotten among their own kind. Do not fear change or the unorthodox, for therein lies the future. Finally, in all things, do what works.

Confession: I don't know a thing about gnomes because they suck.

Also confession: I don't know much about Oberon and Titania because Unseelie are far cooler.

As the guy currently doing most of the Fey things DM wise, I gotta say, Oberons a stupid god.

Seriously, he's the consort to Titania. Titania herself is a goddess only because she leads a whole fey court. Quite frankely Oberon shouldn't be a fey god. There should only be two. Titania & The Queen of Air and Darkness. Its like someone at Wizards said "Oh, we can't have only female fey gods! Nerds with masculinty issues won't know what to do! We better add a male fey god in, so they don't get all worried and confused."

As for the Nature thing. I call BS. The courts are like nature. The Seelie court is summer & spring, warmth, new life, love and passion. The Unseelie court is like winter & autumn, death, cold, hard, unfeeling and strangely beautiful in its absence of anything. Thus, you'd take Titania if you consider yourself allied with the goodly nature gods, and Queen of Air & Darkess if allied with the destructive/murderous nature gods.

Actually, speaking of, can we get Cold added to the Queen of Air & Darkness? And some equilivent goodly nature domain added to Titania? Say Plant? Could remove magic from Titania since magic is inherent with all Fey, regardless of court. Illusion being removed from the Queen of Air and Darkness, as again, it's pretty inherent with all fey.

Yeah, we can replace Illusion for Cold.

As for something mentioned before, we do not have Family or Storm domains, so in those cases, Storm was changed out for Air and Family for Community. They're similar in concepts and spells anyway.

Thanks for the time spent breaking apart my precious work, Cloak! In all seriousness, you're very correct and we'll take on board the points you've raised.

Shame we don't have a domain just called "Fey" which combines nature, illusion and magic domains into a weird sort of hybrid.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Shame we don't have a domain just called "Fey" which combines nature, illusion and magic domains into a weird sort of hybrid.

Yeah. You got elf, human, orc n stuff - unfair jao!

I'd say add Air to Umberlee as well as it is some kind of storm domain, call lightning really gives them some cool evocation fitting for a goddess of storms.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Confession: I don't know a thing about gnomes because they suck.

Your confession is invalid. Yes, this is relevant.

Without intending to be snide... are the designers/DMs welcoming feedback on this? I have a couple of thoughts but I'm not going to waste everyone's time if the response is going to be either "It is what it is, deal with it," or "You don't know enough about this yet to comment intelligently." (And, I don't intend to imply that either of those are unjustified responses; of course they are. Just trying to get the lay of the land.

)

It's ready to be packaged up and sent to testers so right now is the best time to give feedback on whether a particular deity should have this domain or that.

Well, you're welcome to give feedback. It may or may not be taken on board, but we're not going to insult you for it.

I might if you say something particularly dumb. Like "I wish Toliet was a domain".

When will we be allowed to see what Domains do? When they're released?

I agree with air being added to Umberlee, she really seems to lack nature based domains. And yes whats a great storm at see without lightning. Just ask Valkur

jimbono1 wrote:

When will we be allowed to see what Domains do? When they're released?

When they've been tested and confirmed 100%.

Selmak wrote:

It's ready to be packaged up and sent to testers so right now is the best time to give feedback on whether a particular deity should have this domain or that.

Awesome, thanks!

I have two thoughts, one general and one specific.

First, I see that, without exception, every deity who has a Good, Evil, Chaotic, or Lawful component to their alignment has that component reflected in its domains. This seems a little excessive, to me. I'll take Lawfulness as my example: there are many, many deities who happen to be Lawful, whose dogma does not include anything along the lines of, "go out into the world and promote Lawfulness" or "Behave in a Lawful manner at all times" (which is what the deity's domains are meant to represent, IMHO: the things which a deity wants to encourage among its followers). Just at a glance, I'm looking at folks like Garl Glittergold, Kurtulmak, Azuth, Laduguer, maybe a few others. These guys are themselves Lawful, yes, and it's perfectly reasonable to say that they prefer their followers to be similar in outlook to themselves, but they don't go out of their way to actively assert that the world should be a more Lawful place, or that their followers should be paragons of Lawfulness. Their focus is on other things.

I'm using Lawfulness just as an example here; there are examples of alignment domains that seem a bit off among C, G, and E as well (I'd call out things like Solonor Thelandira for Good, Mask and Abbathor for Evil, Eilistraee for Chaos). The fact that every single Good deity has the Good domain, every single Lawful deity has the Law domain, and so forth, makes me wonder if the alignment domains were simply used as a shortcut to fill each deity's domain count up to six, without considering whether those domains are necessarily the most appropriate of all the possible choices.

Please note that I am *NOT* arguing that (for example) Mask and Abbathor are not themselves Evil. I'm arguing that their focus is not on encouraging their followers to be more Evil or to make the world more Evil; rather, it's on encouraging their followers to be stealthy, greedy, clever, and so forth. They might have no qualms with tolerating Evilness as a means to those ends, but Evilness itself isn't their primary aim.

My second and more specific thought was, inevitably, on Sehanine Moonbow.

Among her primary roles is as the protector of the souls of elven dead, and the Seldarine's greatest foe of undeath. I think that should be reflected among her domains... possibly give her Repose in place of Chaos? (I also think that as the goddess of journeys and transcendence, the Travel domain made a lot of sense for her, but any argument I might offer along those lines is probably just going to be interpreted as "waaahhh, give me Haste back," so I think I'll let that one drop.

So... there's my thoughts.

Thanks for being receptive to them, Selmak/Suney!

Coming to a Cleric Near You!

Who is online