AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Dev Disco wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

[...] they;re moving to B because Disco specifically said "If you move to B, you get priority treatment in everything and will probably get a faction area wherever you like." He bribed them to go to B and it is working fantastically, sort of to my chagrin.

I missed this shiny bit of prose. Can you tell me which factions I have given a preferential treatment so far, and which ones I left in the cold?

TormakSaber wrote:

Re: Disco, when B was empty, you told players you wanted people in B, you told DMs you wanted people in B, and if they moved there, they got first crack at faction areas and priority treatment, because B is crowded and A has "a dozen redundant areas with very long toes."

I indeed said that, months ago and it had no effect, but that's not an answer to the question. You make a claim that people move to Abroad because of my actions, so I don't think it's too much to ask for the facts? I assume I have given factions a preferential treatment... well, which factions, for instance? And yes, I could ask you this in private, but you make these claims in public and I don't fancy that at all.

Personlly, I'm not entirely sure why someone need's DC's for being a DM anyway? I mean, you agreed to the job right. Did you agree to the job because you wanted to be a DM? Or because you wanted to be rewarded for it?

I'd rather be DMed by someone who wants to be there, then someone who is there just to be paid.

Most candidates don't know you get paid until it's too late. Well, up till now, of course.

It was one of our little secrets, but alas.

And in the long run? How many DM's are DM's for the fringe benefits these days? Rather then wanting to acually be there.

Nekhy wrote:

Giving unreasonable items to players etc.

I'm sorry, I was addressing Selvec's point about the auto-DC system being open to abuse, my apologies for not making that clear. Giving unreasonable items can be done regardless of manner of payment for DMs, and I trust the team to deal with those who do so appropriately.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Personlly, I'm not entirely sure why someone need's DC's for being a DM anyway? I mean, you agreed to the job right. Did you agree to the job because you wanted to be a DM? Or because you wanted to be rewarded for it?

I'd rather be DMed by someone who wants to be there, then someone who is there just to be paid.

The DCs are there because there's no other way for DMs to get all the shiney items for their PCs. No, we're not allowed to give our PCs items and gold. No, we're not allowed to get special skins or anything fancy without DCs.

Without DCs for DMs in some way, you either agree that we grant ourselves goodies as we see fit, or that we are excluded from all the usual nice stuff players get.

Well, second option doesn't fly as long as DMs are both DMs and players. Some servers don't allow you as a player while you DM, but we do things differently. Players granting rewards to DMs and other players simply doesn't work, because the players do not have the actual power to do so. I am talking of the technical power now. If you're not in control of the client and able to import stuff from the toolset, then you also don't make the decision on what is accepted and what isn't. It just doesn't work that way sensibly.

Except that if that's the case then the rate of 1 DC per eight hours is to much. I'm not exactly sure where that ratio came from but I haven't had 1 DC per eight hours of game time in...well ever.

Yeah, but they're working, not having fun with their characters at the time.

Mind that dealing with MSN drama, handling your concerns out of game, putting in forum hours, donig toolset work, doing administrative tasks like Leto, writing and answering PMs, none of these are "On the Clock". They are done "Free".

Quote:

Except that if that's the case then the rate of 1 DC per eight hours is to much.

It's one every 4. I'm not sure you're looking at this any way but a biased player though.

Quote:

I assume I have given factions a preferential treatment... well, which factions, for instance? And yes, I could ask you this in private, but you make these claims in public and I don't fancy that at all.

You expanded Caraigh just for the Hidden Glade, you saw no problems 'simply adding some ruins for the faction to find' in Frozenfar (and did so, I believe). These areas were directly added specifically for factions... and they would not have been added on A, I think. Not these days post split, anyways. If I'm wrong, then mea culpa, like Nekhy likes to say. I'm just going off what I see.

I disagree it had no effect, more than a few factions today moved to B because they believe they get a faster track to 'stuff' on B than on A, as you said months ago.

I'd imagine that the people DMing just for the DCs would stand out like a sore thumb, by only DMing enough to get the max amount of DCs possible in a week, as opposed to the majority of the active DMs sometimes -doubling- the amount of hours over the cap (such as myself)

Either way - it's the system in place. Players get to log in, enjoy themselves, RP, and ultimately have fun assuming no one makes an issue (which gets deferred to us, anyway). DMs get to log in, deal with OOC twits, rulebreakers, get openly chastized by players (constantly), handle hackers, OOC disputes...On top of that, on 'off clock' hours, we deal with forum administration, server stability, player disputes on MSN at times, LETO work, plot/log writeups, reports (Yes, we even have paperwork to do up here)...and all the while run events for the most self-centered gaming community i've seen in my time online gaming.

Yes, I class you worse than the Counterstrike Source and Call of Duty 4 gamers I play with on weekends, when it comes to the "I DESERVE X" self-gratification and percieved self-worth factor of our playerbase.

With all that in mind - why do I DM? Definately not the DCs. Make-believe credits which have little bearing outside of a computer game definately isn't payment (even if we got 1 per minute) for dealing with the bull that players like to throw our way, and the effort we put in to ultimately be called Biased, Favourist, [expletive] Retards (heard that one!) for sticking our necks out for players' benefit.

Instead, I DM because I earnestly enjoy running events of intrigue for those who enjoy such (small minority, I guess), and I find alot of fun i running little plots for those who can actually bite their pride a little and work with me to make something enjoyable for everyone. I guess I can condense it into this elitist statement;

I enjoy bolstering the Amia experience for those who I think deserve it. Harsh way to put it? Yes. But I'd encourage anyone here to, willingly, stick your neck out and go out of your way to help someone who demeans you whenever possible, voluntarily, for -their- enjoyment.

DMs don't get any DCs for the time they spend RPing as their PCs, advancing storylines with other players as players. In the end, it evens out reasonably to match what a player who spends the same amount of time RPing could* get, based on the logs of DC distribution. And it's really simple: if you don't DM, you don't get DCs. If you AFK a lot, it'll be noticed and you won't be a DM for long. Frankly, I don't care if someone DMs for the DCs, as long as they do a good job. If they clock a lot of DCs and don't actually do anything at all, it'll be noticed in any case.

I'm not saying it's perfectly balanced yet, and there's a few things I'd like to tweak. But the system is a result of years of development, and I'll bet that it's one of the best systems out there for rewarding DMs. It's nigh impossible to abuse, it isn't dependent on any single person's judgment.

* I'm saying 'could', because I am painfully aware of timezone issues and RL taking up DM time, which means less DCs distributed and less DM hours clocked. But it also means less DCs for DMs, don't forget that.

The reason why I find automatically rewarded DCs to DMs for their online time distasteful, is because of my own former experiences from having been a DM on various servers.

On PotM, DMs weren't allowed to have PCs.

There was nothing remotely close to being "rewarded" in any way for the work you did as a DM. Being allowed to DM, and basically influence an entire fictional world, was the reward.

It's just a personal perspective I have on DM'ing. That once you become a DM, anything PC-side becomes second.

DM's wanting their shinies, just tells me that the DM staff on Amia, in general, views this differently than me.

And so be it.

I'm not a DM, nor am I the owner of this server, and as such, it's not for me to decide.

I can see that as a perfectly reasonable approach on a server that indeed doesn't allow DMs to play PCs while holding the DM seat. If things weren't different on Amia, I'd most likely think exactly the same. But servers have different customs and traditions that shape attitudes and expectations, so comparing two very different takes on something doesn't get us far.

Amia should be compared to a server that a) allows DMs to have PCs and b) allows DMs rewards for their DMing. And that in turn should be compared to how players on the same server get goodies.

I know of several players, very competent role players, in fact, who have gotten 2-3 DCs so far during their entire time on Amia.

These players... in fact, the majority of players on Amia, play persistently on Amia without having nifty DC items, wings or special DC approved races.

Yet somehow, there's a need for the DMs to have this.

It took me 4 years of playing on Amia, before I got my first DC item.

And seeing how DMs already get free rebuilds... well, I'm sceptical.

Quote:

On PotM, DMs weren't allowed to have PCs.

I love to DM, but you force this rule on me and I quit. Done. I think it's silly. In fact, i think DMs should be encouraged to play. There is a crucial element that you will lose touch with, if you do not continue to play a PC.

But alas, from personal experience on many servers, when a DM is allowed to have a PC metagaming becomes much more frequent. DMs are still humans, and having access to so much information that they probably would never have as a PC can influence their RP with certain people.

Imagine the DM's PC is a high ranking official in some random castle, and player X 'joins' his faction as undercover to run some personal plot to kill all the higher ups and take over the place.
One beautiful day, the DM is on the DM client and runs into player X discussing his evil plans with his equally evil friends. Will the DM be able to act normally next time he meets player X as a player, knowing what's going to happen?

I think not. Seen it happen too many times. It's hard for players who hear information from others and end up accidentally metagaming stuff, now imagine what's it like for a DM who sometimes has to witness that information firsthand whilst on the client.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

I assume I have given factions a preferential treatment... well, which factions, for instance? And yes, I could ask you this in private, but you make these claims in public and I don't fancy that at all.

You expanded Caraigh just for the Hidden Glade, you saw no problems 'simply adding some ruins for the faction to find' in Frozenfar (and did so, I believe). These areas were directly added specifically for factions... and they would not have been added on A, I think. Not these days post split, anyways. If I'm wrong, then mea culpa, like Nekhy likes to say. I'm just going off what I see.

I disagree it had no effect, more than a few factions today moved to B because they believe they get a faster track to 'stuff' on B than on A, as you said months ago.

The update logs beg to differ, and as far as I remember the Hidden Glade people did quite a bit of RP on B before even asking. Maybe they just like the place? Maybe the HoA tried their luck here because we denied expansion of their base on A (which had nothing to do with a preference for either server)?

You are right, I did expand to add empty areas, but you also know why: I don't want to clear hunting areas on B because we don't have that many. We did discuss this, and as far as I remember you didn't make an objection to them coming to B, just that I add new areas instead of clearing old ones. Well, sorry, but I have plenty to do and adding a new area takes less time.

Anyway, we'll have the rest of this discussion in the DM forum.

-Dark Faith- wrote:

But alas, from personal experience on many servers, when a DM is allowed to have a PC metagaming becomes much more frequent. DMs are still humans, and having access to so much information that they probably would never have as a PC can influence their RP with certain people.

Imagine the DM's PC is a high ranking official in some random castle, and player X 'joins' his faction as undercover to run some personal plot to kill all the higher ups and take over the place.
One beautiful day, the DM is on the DM client and runs into player X discussing his evil plans with his equally evil friends. Will the DM be able to act normally next time he meets player X as a player, knowing what's going to happen?

I think not. Seen it happen too many times. It's hard for players who hear information from others and end up accidentally metagaming stuff, now imagine what's it like for a DM who sometimes has to witness that information firsthand whilst on the client.

Then I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to trust that we don't do that.

Alas, I cannot

PEBCAK.

Yeah, not my own though. Ahah. Well but enough of this

Last edited by Nekhy on Thu, Oct 08 2009, 9:11 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Mr Mago wrote:

I know of several players, very competent role players, in fact, who have gotten 2-3 DCs so far during their entire time on Amia.

These players... in fact, the majority of players on Amia, play persistently on Amia without having nifty DC items, wings or special DC approved races.

Yet somehow, there's a need for the DMs to have this.

There's no need, but there should be the same possibility. As long as DMs are players too, they play on equal terms.

But it's true, that DCs don't always get distributed as equally as we'd hope. It's something we try to correct all the time, when in the client. It's not the perfect system, and nobody ever claimed it to be such. But it's a system that works well enough (based on logs of distribution that I am looking at right now).

You don't see nearly all of the stuff people buy with DCs, btw. Special races don't require DCs. Only special skins do, and they are requested surprisingly little (or alternatively, they're far too weird to be accepted as PCs in the first place, even if the player had the DCs for the skin). A lot of the items are requested privately. A lot of the DCs are spent on leveling, too. Far more than you'd think, in fact.

If you can't trust us, then I'm pretty sure the error is on your end, not ours. If only you understood how seriously the DM team polices itself, regarding, well, everything.

All of the OOC analysis, judgement, and bitching in the forums that goes on about DM and PC driven events just totally kills the RP and ruins the fun for all involved.

O'Raghailligh wrote:

All of the OOC analysis, judgement, and bitching in the forums that goes on about DM and PC driven events just totally kills the RP and ruins the fun for all involved.

I totally agree. I hate these topics with a passion, they kill motivation and interest both as a player and a DM. But on the other hand, I cannot justify neither locking them and shutting people up, nor ignoring them totally.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

On PotM, DMs weren't allowed to have PCs.

I love to DM, but you force this rule on me and I quit. Done. I think it's silly. In fact, i think DMs should be encouraged to play. There is a crucial element that you will lose touch with, if you do not continue to play a PC.

This I very much agree with.

The one thing I would ask of DMs (some anyway) is to be forgiving. Don't blackball people if you don't like their personal mode of operations. I know earned a swathe of anti-DCs by having a tantrum a while ago and storming away from Amia 'never to return again'.

And like Mago said, many people RP all the time and never get DCed for it. I know I want DCs, I see them as a valuable tool. I also know that I sometimes worry that I do not receive them because I have caused aggravation for DMs in the past.

This is why I would ask that DMs above all be forgiving of what may be an OOC hassle being reflected in game. As many of you have said, you experience them as well, the downside for you is that you are forced to resolve them in an IC/OOC fashion. We as players can just log off and sulk.

So, personally I think DMs should reap the reward of having no option but to deal with crap that ordinary players can just walk away from. Peer review works and considering the relatively small DM population(relative to PC population) monitoring should be quite easy. But all that aside, please try and maintain an open mind. I think one of the greatest responsibilities a DM has is to not carry a grudge.

The Incognitos wrote:

I think one of the greatest responsibilities a DM has is to not carry a grudge.

Easier said than done. They are humans too, after all.

soundofastream wrote:

DM Tormak,

I don't want easy fun rides.
I don't want it handed to me on a plate.

-----

I do want hard events, that are challenging
I do want such events to be lifechanging for my pc's if need be
I do want events where, the consequences -could- be permadeath
I do want events where, should the PC's win, they truly do save the day
But if they fail....they get what happened to the Eternal Order's temple or the Loviatar temple.

---

Players who want the easy ride, are also the bane of my life as another player.

I'll sign that petition as well.

And ohhhh dear gawd there's so much I want to reply to, and I'm way too lazy to start quoting it all. Also, I'll have forgotten more than half of it while writing this!

Anyways, not seeing a lot of events is part of the reason I rarely ever play anymore. But that's as much, if not more, on me than it's on the DM-Team, since I haven't been a fully regular play since... What, April? May? Doesn't matter, it's not something I throw blame around over. Events in general do make it more fun to stay at A-M-I-A, because not only do we get to "rawrzor smack-stab-bash" a bunch of critters made specifically (maybe) for our amusement, we also, and this is the important part, get to "listen" to a story that someone put their heart into writing, and to make that already sweet deal even better, we get to take part in it! And change it!

The only event of Tormak's I've taken part in, that being Nes'ek as the only one I'm sure of, was so freakin' hard that I wanted to smash my face against the desk. Some may say that it was a tad too hard, but honestly, I just blame my lacking Forgotten Realms knowledge. As far as I know, Tormy's a dude with excessive lore on this matter, stuffed into his head, and he, as a DM, uses this knowledge to its fullest potential. And why wouldn't he? Amia is a Forgotten Realms based server.

Uh, so on that part... Thumbs up. More hard stuff. More events, too, sure, but keep it hard. If people don't want to think, let 'em run their head against the wall 'till they get lucky and hit the right spot.

-----

So, DM rewards. I have to admit, when I first heard about this from someone else, my blood boiled for a while. It seemed unfair to the entire playerbase, that a group of people were getting those yummy Dreamcoins, for a job that most people would envy them for having. Not only that, it seemed silly to me that they shouldn't get DCs like the rest of us, when they were playerside. Maybe it's just me placing too much trust in the DM-Team, but I sincerely doubt that it would create more favoritism than whatever level of it we're at now. Hell, they'd probably get fewer than anyone else, just because the rest of their "team mates" would try to avoid the accusations of favoritism, and therefore give 'em less!

So fuck it, keep that reward system up. But at the same time, I beg of you, stop worrying so much about being accused of having favorites, that you stop giving DCs to players you're friendly with and/or play with often. The fact that you guys play with them, should be proof that they of all people deserve the DCs you may give them at some point.

-----

New players not filling old ones leaving's spots... I think someone else mentioned that this game is old. That means the new players, who would be in their teen years, just really don't exist. Many of the younger roleplayers probably moved on to NWN 2, or try hard to make RP exist and function well in WoW. Remember, this game might be beautiful to us, but most young folk picking up this game, would wrinkle their nose at it.

-----

TormakSaber wrote:

I end with a question: On many servers, there is a prominent thread which states: "By Signing this thread, you open your characters up to permadeath, and any other horrible things a DM will inflict upon you. Do notsign this unless you consent." Without fail, much of the serve signs, by their own volition.

How many Amians would do this, do you honestly think? I admit, my estimation is not very high at all, and I think most of them would be DM signatures.

- Dakotaen

There you go. If I ever get back to Amia fully again, you're welcome to remember that one, and use it against any of my characters, unless you're just doing it because you don't like me (that goes for the entire team, including future additions, yes). If I do something stupid, like try to leap a chasm with Eir in full armour, you're welcome to send me a tell that says "...Your character is clearly retarded. The gods punish him by death. Permanent... Death."

-----

There was something else. I can't remember what it was.

It doesent bother me in the least the DMs get DCs awarded even if they got more DCs that me, presumably. Not everyone will get the same amount, I know great players that almost never get them, and I mean getting 1 or 2 over a timeline of several months, and I dont hear them bitching about it like some here who do just because they think they deserve more.

They have to deal with those players getting into their hair for all wanting to hunt in overcrowded hunting areas. For all the pvp messes because many players cant handle a single defeat. For faction arguments and metagaming complaints. They have to handle people that mule stuff from one character to the next. Exploit bugs. List goes on and on.

Oh, yes, I forgott! ::gasp:: They signed up for that!

If they show blunt favoritism, write a complaint to Nekh. If they misuse their power, do the same. If the Head DM does so, speak to Mags. If they are doing their job, stop pissing against their leg. Far better things to do to help the server than ensuring our dms burn out quicker.

Jebus. Must be the player-bases monthly time.

DMs need to be compensated for their time. It isn't a particularly easy job, and it cuts into the time that would be spent playing (which isn't rewarded with DCs).

If players aren't being rewarded as much it's because they don't work as hard as a DM, and even when they do their best there's no particular guarantee that someone will wand them and a DM will see them. There's also consistency to take into account - if someone only turns on the good stuff when they think they have an audience, a lot of the time they're not going to be looking so good to a DM randomly hopping around.

Let's see here, when I agreed to begin dming I did because I wanted to give to the playerbase and because I have enjoyed my time here on Amia. That was the sole reason I did it for and I still enjoy making events and stuff for people when I have the time for it.

About dms running events I also think there is a fact which should be highlighted. Amia has a lot, and I mean a lot of services that its playerbase are given acess to. Rebuilds, reskins, custom items, name changing etc. If you say go to Arelith you can't get rebuilds and most of those items at all. It is simply not possible. I do not mean to say thats bad, it is just different from what we have.

So when I log into the client I will begin getting services requests for all sorts of things. On top of that there is there sporadic player issues thats needs solving. All this means I devote a rather large amount of time dmside to help solve such issues, provide those services we offer. This naturally takes both time and effort. If I have spent several hours simply helping people I often do not have the energy then start making a plot and everything.

Some dms tend to favour either doing maintance stuff or doing events because both things are very time consuming. This means that the time dms spend on the client will have to be devided between those two objects.

Finally dcs.. I am going to narrow down my dc earning statistics to give an idea of what numbers are involved.

I became a dm 4'th of June 2009. From that date to the 4'th of October I have played 328 hours of Amia in total. 76,22 % of that was spent in the dm client. In that time I have earned 72 dcs. Which is roughly 0,59 dc a day.

I started playing Amia 4'th of June 2007 and had until the 4'th of June 2009 earned 119 dcs which is an average of 0,16 dcs a day. To this number must said however that this includes military service, vacations and what not. It is naturally a very long period where I did not play very much for a lot of time.

I haven't been able to track down the total number of players hours pre dm.

Now if we are also to look at how many dcs I spent I have until now spent grand total of 43 dcs. Out of 191 dcs or 22,5 %.

Note this does not represent the general statistics of all dms this is merely my case and I am told my dm ratio is fairly high which also helps to explain the high dc output.

If any got some questions to these numbers shoot.

Selmak wrote:

There's also consistency to take into account - if someone only turns on the good stuff when they think they have an audience, a lot of the time they're not going to be looking so good to a DM randomly hopping around.

This is actually one major thing I see from the client. People say they RP all the time, but I only ever see them hunt without a single IC word and complain about lack of DCs in the party chat. I'm so desperate for some RP'd hunts nowadays, that if I see you at the very least emote attacks and stuff, you might get rewarded.

It's a bit of a trend that people we snatch for DMing are also people who tend to RP stuff on their own, maybe even when out hunting, btw.

I Rp with myself sometimes though It's fallen into abeyance mainly because I developed a schizp tendency to talk to myself when at home.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

On PotM, DMs weren't allowed to have PCs.

I love to DM, but you force this rule on me and I quit. Done. I think it's silly. In fact, i think DMs should be encouraged to play. There is a crucial element that you will lose touch with, if you do not continue to play a PC.

QFE and Agreed with, 1100%

So long as the DM can maintain his/her/it's proper time on the client or has a reasonably reason why they cannot, then I don't like the idea of forcing DMs to not have PCs.

Sometimes, the better fly on the wall for finding good RP is being a PC then a DM (then again as often the other way could be argued, and quite correctly so too).

If nothing else, this stops a little thing called DM Burnout.

--

As for the policing themselves, I'll go out on a limb and say that even if at times I get anxious and think that nothing will happen if indeed I did come across some bad stuff going down, I also know enough to know that there are folks currently serving DMside who'll act on it.

Maias227 wrote:

I became a dm 4'th of June 2009. From that date to the 4'th of October I have played 328 hours of Amia in total. 76,22 % of that was spent in the dm client. In that time I have earned 72 dcs. Which is roughly 0,59 dc a day.

Jesus christ. I think I've gotten maybe 6-7 max since I started playing again in February.

Nekhy wrote:

Selmak wrote:

There's also consistency to take into account - if someone only turns on the good stuff when they think they have an audience, a lot of the time they're not going to be looking so good to a DM randomly hopping around.

This is actually one major thing I see from the client. People say they RP all the time, but I only ever see them hunt without a single IC word and complain about lack of DCs in the party chat. I'm so desperate for some RP'd hunts nowadays, that if I see you at the very least emote attacks and stuff, you might get rewarded.

It's a bit of a trend that people we snatch for DMing are also people who tend to RP stuff on their own, maybe even when out hunting, btw.

I made some rather crude calculations not too long ago, on an estimate on the numbers of mobsters Darthion would have killed by now.

I think it went into the range of about 300'000.

Unfortunately, Amia has a lot of monster bashing implemented into the module.

Even though it has improved (IMO, monster bashing-lovers might think the opposite), close to all areas outside of cities/villages/faction areas have monsters in them.

You just can't expect characters which are several years old, to still RP-emote during a hack'n'slash routine, which they've already gone through thousands of times.

I used to RP in regards of -everything- I did when I started on Amia. Hunting with Semli had 80% RP forced upon you, and 20% bashing monsters.

But back then, the server was still new. The areas were unexplored, and the mobsters were challenging.

If one doesn't feel like emoting attacks, one can easily do some other RP while bashing monsters. What that RP is, is really quite irrelevant, as I said "at the very least emote attacks".

Stopping to comment about the latest rumours? Camping properly with a tent? Such little things to distract from the powergaming might earn you DCs easily.

Personally, I prefer to stop and interact with people.

But... there's a lot of players who don't care for that.

Nekhy wrote:

If one doesn't feel like emoting attacks, one can easily do some other RP while bashing monsters. What that RP is, is really quite irrelevant, as I said "at the very least emote attacks".

Stopping to comment about the latest rumours? Camping properly with a tent? Such little things to distract from the powergaming might earn you DCs easily.

Even tossing in witty comments as you go along if they are appropriate. ^_^

Mr Mago wrote:

Personally, I prefer to stop and interact with people.

But... there's a lot of players who don't care for that.

I'm this way too. I'd rather stop because frankly I'm not fast enough on the keyboard to walk and type and whatnot simultaneously. So, if you are with me it's either walking/killing or stopping/talking and the two rarely mix because it stresses me out and that's not why I'm here.

I think DMs who talk to me when ask my stupid questions should get DCs, Tormak would be oprah rich and lally would be slowly climbing up. HI LALLY AND TORMAK

shifter fix?

I think that DMs deserve payment.. hell I see it clear.

I'm a mother , I choose to be a mother, I love being a mother.. Do I WISH I got paid for being a maid, keeper of all things, listening and dealing with complaining , cries, diapers...YES!

My point being is.. yes a DM is awesome, but it's hard work and I think it deserves payment. I'm sure all of them has wanted to pull their hair out at one point or another.

Personally, everytime a DM helps me I always thank them. Everytime.

Honestly I am amazed on how much the DMs actually do on this server. It's not something I am used to. It doesn't matter if a DM is only a DM for DC or because they love it because either way they are there for you!

DM'ing in some places might be its own reward. It is in my tabletop group.

It is not on Amia.

That said, I don't give a damn about getting DCs as a DM. Don't know how many I currently have, don't care about them, might not even use them. Wouldn't weep any more than I already do if we got nothing.

Amia is an oligarchy, it is governed by an "elite." With that premiss in mind, I reckon the perks DMs grant themselves are quite reasonable, mostly aimed at balancing certain losses of player priviledges, and rather minimal compared to what we could do. (In the first place, the reward was set by the server owner to reward his staff, not by a team to reward themselves.) It's a nice thing, but it could never make DMing "worth it." I DM because I'm loyal to Amia, I want to do my best to help the server in any way I can, and because every now and then, I get that warm feeling inside when a player is happy for the help I was able to offer. It feels like I'm making a difference (which is a purely selfish motive, but in others' interests as well). I won't say it isn't enough compensation for all the crap we face, because I don't think our work is crap and I need no "compensation" beyond the priviledge of working in such a fun team; I actually rather enjoy trouble. But I can imagine that if you didn't enjoy DMing and the work that comes with it, it wouldn't be enough compensation.

Is our reward more than the average player will get? Certainly. Is every four-hour session I do on the client worth a DC? Hell no. Do DMs sometimes do too little to deserve it in full, or rather, are there players whose contribution occasionally warrants more DCs than the DMs' work over a random 4 hours? Probably. Overall, though, I daresay it's pretty fair.

Seems like a lot of people whine that its the DM's job to entertain and help the players, if that is the case they should get paid.

A note on distributing DC's. Way back there were people that were selected as trust worthy and given the ability to hand DC's out to others when a DM wasn't around. Also DM's player side could reward DC's as well with the tool. Was this removed due to abuse or just a rise in the number of DMs? Seems like it would help fill any holes in the DM coverage, if players could be found of course. Just a thought.

A note on events/plots. I noticed there was one thread for a scheduled mini adventure where people could sign up. Maybe more of these could help those that are missing all the fun due to just poor luck/timing. This might even help players know when the DM's are busy with an adventure and not to bug them with requests.

Lastly, thank you to the DM's, new and old, for the great work you do

Wow....this got big.

Parts of this thread are really true, and parts of it break my heart and make me wanna scream. I try my hardest, and I know that the team does too. Catering to upwards of 65 personalities a day is very tough.

Meh. Nothing else comes to mind.

Pirate_Zeritul wrote:

A note on distributing DC's. Way back there were people that were selected as trust worthy and given the ability to hand DC's out to others when a DM wasn't around. Also DM's player side could reward DC's as well with the tool. Was this removed due to abuse or just a rise in the number of DMs? Seems like it would help fill any holes in the DM coverage, if players could be found of course. Just a thought.

I don't think this was ever actually implemented. It was in the talks, but discarded eventually. At least it's never been that way during the 4 years I've been a DM here.

Maybe that was pre-split I'm not sure I've been around way too long

Dream Coins didn't exist pre-Amia, as far as I understand? I do remember it being talked about, but it was indeed discarded. Some.. 3 years ago?

DMs can still give DCs playerside. Often we choose not to, because that might make players flock to us and react to our PCs differently. I prefer to remain anonymous playerside, when I'm dealing with new people. Instead, I holler on the DM channel to get someone else give them on my behalf, if anyone's online but not watching.

IronAngel wrote:

Dream Coins didn't exist pre-Amia, as far as I understand? I do remember it being talked about, but it was indeed discarded. Some.. 3 years ago?

DMs can still give DCs playerside. Often we choose not to, because that might make players flock to us and react to our PCs differently. I prefer to remain anonymous playerside, when I'm dealing with new people. Instead, I holler on the DM channel to get someone else give them on my behalf, if anyone's online but not watching.

yeah DMs legit chars giving out DCs would be bad, we allrealy have the DC stalkers who go to events they would never take part in like masked dances just because of a DM shout, last thing we need is for players to stalk DMs legit chars trying to suck the DCs out of them.

Where are our players: DM events etc

Who is online