I've not read through the whole thread and all the posts, and have a bit to say about this matter, but first of all I'll offer a solution for one problem some people complain about:



Give your opponent consequences. Interrogate or torture them or whatever suits you without being an ass. (Super simply put)



A sidetracker for Dead, just note greater restoration potions or not scars don't show too well on elves, but don't know about this for other races and it may not be so easy to see scars on kobold scales for instance.

Here's an advice sort of too, made out of my own observations (not directed to Dead especially!). Not every player are so keen on applying disfigurement to their characters and some may go with the flow. Either way, maybe ask beforehand if it's alright to permanently disfigure the character permanently, or just don't expect it to last permanently. Also if the victims player is cool with it but you fear the wound/burn will be healed by other players you can add extra depth to the rp by making sure the wound/burn is healed in such a way that the scar stays.

_________________
I am not weird, I am limited edition

On Amia, level 30 means nothing. Everybody and their mother is level 30. I do not see why it is any different for healing spells. I think it would be more valid that a Cleric could not mend the injury outright, such as a broken bone. Maybe the Cleric is too new(because people still get level 30 in three days), and their God hasn't given them interest enough for that kind of power, the Cleric isn't able to channel the spell's full ability. Because we're not supposed to all be level 30, having a 'lolGreaterRestoration' mentality makes it cheap, and unrealistic to the original setting. It's supposed to be rarer than this. Only saying this now, because ideas for how it will be RP'd are being thrown around, and I figured I'd extend my own opinion as well.

Edit: A God's power is finite, as well. Hence how they kill each other. Technically, if too many people who are 'level 30' casting such high tier magic so frequently, you should be able to 'overload the system' per say. Just another explanation, I would not like to see it cater to an "I'm level 30, technically I should be a demigod" mentality. Make it not about being 'level 30'..

_________________
Did somebody say..

As a player of numerous epic clerics, I tend to.. well.. force consequences of healing on people, haha. If I'm healing someone from obscene wounds, I'm going to emote it causing excruciating pain. I'm going to ICly inform them, through emotes or conversation, that their mind will have not caught up with their body, and that they may still feel the pain of their 'phantom limb' even though the arm is now physically there. And that after a resurrection, they'll vomit, be unsteady, become famished, feel pain, etc.

I'll also occasionally refuse healing. And I justify it as the mind not being mentally prepared for the body to be healed, and that skipping that process can create scars or lasting consequences. It would be like healing over a broken, and forever being stuck with a limp. Sometimes I treat healing as layers-- if someone broke a leg bone, I'll heal the bone first, lightly bandage the outside, and days later, begin healing the outside wound. Any way to make the healing process longer.

Regretfully, this doesn't happen in fast-action PvP or PvM. I've never been able to emote that during a fight, when I cast a heal or greater restoration. I usually do in the aftermath. But that's why I like Pony's wound system. As a cleric who often wants to pull back my character's healing ability, this would give concrete wounds that I wouldn't have to emote immediately, in the heat of combat.

And if anything, it would give Clerics -more- influence. People coming to healers, looking for help. The way the system is arranged is so that it's largely voluntary anyway. So the people who are willing to have consequences done to them, are also probably going to be the people who are going to be willing to 'properly' Rp out the healing process with Cleric PC's and healers.

I can't see anything wrong with anything that might make people actually acknowledge the fact that their character in fact, died.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

So, how can we turn this discussion, into a topic on the Improving Amia forums, for designers to do their thing?

_________________
Plays Wicket
And Caige!

"No, You're worse the a simple slobbering beast. A simple slobbering beast seldom shows cunning, attempty at manipulation and use of diplomacy. No, You're a far more dangerous beast than that." ~Tuomas

Well, the IA forums isn't really a forums for discussion. So like what Pony did, outline specific solutions that you want to see implemented by the staff, and then post it.

And bear in mind that once posted, it's not a discussion anymore. It's a presentation of that specific idea. So flesh out what you would like here, first.

Well, I love the idea of a wound system, but something that you yourself choose, to help your rp.

A rest menu with a few options depending on what happened to your character.

I'd like to see things like blindness, slowed movement with broken legs, -ab from damaged hands and arms, lower constitution or overall HP from internal injuries.

This rest menu will need a disclaimer stating that when you choose these, its gunna stick for a week or two.

_________________
Plays Wicket
And Caige!

"No, You're worse the a simple slobbering beast. A simple slobbering beast seldom shows cunning, attempty at manipulation and use of diplomacy. No, You're a far more dangerous beast than that." ~Tuomas

I will try to write up a new version with some of the ideas presented here tommorow (like the additions of the heal system), and make a new topic in the GD so the suggestion is not sidetracked by (un/semi)-related discussions. Then we can leave that open for a few days, to give the members of the community the opportunity to note what they feel is important, discuss aspects of it and allow those who might be against it to explain why they think it should not be added. If in the end it looks like we have a good concept, we can toss it on the IA forum to see if the DMs are good with it.

Sound good?

Sounds fabulous.

Sounds good to me.

_________________
Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

Lovely!

_________________
Plays Wicket
And Caige!

"No, You're worse the a simple slobbering beast. A simple slobbering beast seldom shows cunning, attempty at manipulation and use of diplomacy. No, You're a far more dangerous beast than that." ~Tuomas

I love it when threads like this turn into real solutions! Good job everyone. And just to say, I've been enjoying my time back here possibly more than any other in the past- I do think the server has matured a great deal. The old Amia I knew would've had this thread locked, and any of these suggested changes would have had to come from the top-down. So, kudos to everyone for being such good sports lately. I also think the idea of a jail is a fantastic one, it will give the chance for a neutral faction to really rise and garner influence over the island.

I'll also say- the way the Thayans have engineered their conflict has really been making me think about how my character interacts with others, particularly ones she doesn't like. It's been interesting, thus far, and I hope it keeps evolving.

_________________

I am excited for this. I know its just in the brainstorming stages, and I'm not familiar with how proposed ideas are pushed onto the server, but I would really like to see this implemented. It is easy to shrug off damage, but I really feel this would not only create roleplay but add weight to our decisions in game. I look forward to seeing steps made in this direction.

_________________

As the Cordor DM, I feel I should answer these questions.

I'll start with that Cordor is a mercantile trade city, who has several years ago, had it's duchal rulers and nobility forcibly removed in a revolution, which is how it became the Commonwealth of Cordor. In both iterations, they've tried to be as open as possible in what they allow as visitors, except in the cases of those who are outright dangerous to have around. Do note however, that the provisional government of the Commonwealth of Cordor was an extremely corrupt government, who murdered it's own people that were inconvenient, etc. Disliked groups could be a valuable asset to the former ministry of law, they could make cheap thug fodder and if they got problematic, they could be branded as the freaks they were and cast out. It's a similar principle with their trading with adventurers, nonstandard races, etc, they'll take their coin, they may not explicitly like them, and they're not willing to extend legal protections if they feel they're getting out of line.

Pretty much all of the groups who have since been banished from Cordor were done so because of bad blood and history. For example, the Banites officially blockaded their northern road and hung the heads of Cordorian merchants outside their doorstep, the Thayans blew up the orphanage, leaving only 3 survivors, drow led some nasty raids, etc. A lot of this was before I became head of Cordor, but I do try to keep the historical precedents around, people don't just forget these things.

For the record, Drow had, for a long time, required a signet ring to prove they were not going to cause problems, though this stopped after the Shrine of Eilistraee publicly condemned the corruption of the Cordorian government. Later, this was rescinded in North Cordor because the same shrine with significant PC effort aided the people in a time of need, enough that the guards there would ignore their legal banishment, and them being allowed in North Cordor only was later signed into law.

Kobolds, having done significant harm to Cordor, have been and remain banished at this time. So far no PC effort has gone into rescinding this. The goblin tribes aren't nearly as organized and so far have done a rather paltry amount of damage compared to what the kobolds did.

I also want to keep Cordor as open as possible because, well, it's a starter city, and it can be tough for new PCs to not be able to get access to the starting city. Especially around the shadier areas where they would at least be tolerated if they can survive.

As for why the provisional government wasn't hung by their populace, there were a number of reasons, though they actually were eventually overthrown. Currently Cordor is still, despite many shifts in power, in a rather tumultuous political situation, with there being a stark divide between West Cordor, Central Cordor, and the rest of Cordor. However, the reasons for them being overthrown really weren't to do with their monstrous race policy, in fact such creatures have overall done a very minor amount of damage to Cordor, compared to what even human adventurers and their own government have done. The provisional government would also throw people who were too problematic out (if non-citizens), or throw them into a secret prison without a trial (if they were citizens).
For the current 'ruling' powers, they are people who are well respected by the people of Cordor. The ones who have had their massive corruption exposed have since fled to West Cordor, who still believes in the 'old commonwealth'. I will note however, that Cordor, with Amn's fleet looming over them, as well as other calamities, have been in a continual crisis situation, and even throughout all of this, monstrous races have caused very little damage, with the exception of kobolds. Drow have actually /aided/ them a lot in not starving out.

Similarly, Cordor can justify taxing the farmers because they do spend a lot on scouts to protect them.

For NES Cordor (That's North/East/South Cordor), the corruption of the Arcanum was exposed, and they're aware that Amn is simply a puppet of the Arcanum. The same Arcanum, who did things like: Ran the blood prison in which innocent citizens were taken for being an inconvenience to the corrupt ministry of law, tried to teleport in a horde of Maztican berserkers to kill innocent people to harvest their blood, setting up a blood contingency to harvest the blood of their own people, sent a horde of blood beasts which caused over 2000 casualties in South Cordor, put a blood boil spell over the city to try and get the city's people to kill one another, incidentally leaving them too weak and disorganized to resist being saved by an invading force who put a stop to it. I could go on, but Amn has proven to be a hostile power through and through.


Honestly, this is a bit of an aggressive assertion, but I'll answer regardless. I find these often come because players don't have a full perspective that a DM has. It's to be expected, we have access to a lot of records, information, and things which are not necessarily available to PCs. I find that a lot of times players complain that something was rigged, unfair, or nonsensical, it's because they either did not consider all factors to the situation, or simply did not have information on very relevant factors which influence outcomes of events. It's why, for example, Kohlingen isn't as widely hated in Cordor as one might think, except in West Cordor. The fact is, Cordor was victim to blood magic by it's own government and they're aware of it, in fact most of South Cordor approves of Kohlingen decapitating the provisional government because of how much they had suffered from their corruption. I find however, when this story is recounted, that the 'Blood Boil' spell which the city was under is often entirely ignored by PCs, likely due to several IC attempts to mislead people about the situation. The divide between West and South Cordor is deliberate on my part, I did want to have different factions of Cordor compete and conflict, as would be expected of a divided city in a time of crisis.

_________________
I play:

Feel free to use my PC as an example, Kobra, that there's no shenanigans spared when dealing with Cordor

_________________
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

I think NPCs can play a strong role in generating conflict, because there's always going to be one lingering factor with PCs and that's the lack of a substantial consequence. NPCs have permanency, they can be killed with impact and they won't be coming back, in a way it's a more touching death, since it actually is the end of their life.

Killing NPCs isn't the only way to utilize 'em too. NPCs can also be used to give a bit of down time between bouts of conflict between PCs while still taking strides to create a more tense atmosphere. Let's be honest, conflict is AWESOME! BUT, it'll wear you down if there aren't lulls, or worse yet it'll desensitize us to the sort of apex that conflict brings.

NPCs, y'all.

_________________
bad man

This should be a rule.

There are people with CE characters that worship deities with the destruction domain that are capable of role-playing their characters accurately, while being cooperative OOC. The only people that can't do this are uncreative BONE-HEADS.

That wasn't really constructive Joe. :/

_________________
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

lol

+1