AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

dayfer wrote:

Hrm, well what if you chose a domain that fits the deity, and the character for that matter, which isn't on the deity's domains? e.g. a Thunder child Cleric of Moradin with Air Domain?

1 - Like Sune said
2 - Why would you even think Air is one of Moradin's domains? For the rec I made a Moradin cleric on Amia and I only picked from his domains. Just like any cleric should have been all along. Be happy with HotG, awesome for a Moradin cleric to use.
3 - What Sune and every other DM has said on this matter.

I honestly do not understand why people have such a hard time understanding this change. RP your chars and deities right, people. Sheesh

I do... that was a generic question, my own Cleric has Potection and War Domains, both of her deity. I was merely wandering as I know some people whom it would affect, I like the change, sheesh, just asking a question no need to bite my head off.

EDIT: I know Air makes no sense as one of his domains, but some of the spells it brings might with the above example.

Ffffff ffs I'm sorry about that. I honestly feel like an arse because I read what you posted wrong. Went back and reread, now it's clear >_<

Well then.... redirect that at anyone that has done that (I was mostly venting about other people, not you anyways, but the bit directed at your post was undoubtedly uncalled for) :oops:

No problem

I am sure there is some exception switch or token built in that the DMs can use for special cases that are requested and approved, in any case. If it isn't already planned, it should be implemented. You could probably simply not pick a deity at all, for example (dunno if that's enforced, maybe not since things would get complicated with our woefully incomplete deity roster). Blanket mechanics like this are good, but only if there's the possibility of human intervention when DMs approve an unusual request. So Dayfer shouldn't worry too much.

DM approval for domains that are not part of a deity's portfolio? I don't see why that would happen. As far as I am aware, you cannot do that in the FR setting and therefore likely it won't be allowed. Something like that is just an excuse for a player to try to weasel in a justification for keeping a certain spell they are obsessed with keeping (and shouldn't have had in the first place).

Honestly, we should all be happy with the work that's being done on the cleric/deity system *nodnod*

Last edited by IronAngel on Tue, May 31 2011, 20:42 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Naivatkal wrote:

DM approval for domains that are not part of a deity's portfolio? I don't see why that would happen.

Then I'm glad you're not a DM, no offense intended. The first rule of DMing is that anything and everything is possible, and you should never judge a case prematurely. DMing is about finding ways to work things out, not about finding reasons not to. That's why we have the Request system, and the buck stops at the communication of player and DM. An arbitary script should never come between that fundamental relationship, never should the DMs have to say "sure, your case is very convincing but we already scripted a blanket system so that's how it's going to be." The idea that role-playing, the safe haven of creativity and human interaction, would be controlled by mindless machines is pretty dystopic, don't you think? I'm pretty sure the DMs know this and agree with it, so I wager there will be a token, switch or some other way around the script if the situation warrants.

Considering (if I read rightly) the increase in options for Domains is such to facilitate characters taking Deity appropriate domains, as opposed to having to come up with loose fits in what's in NWN Iron, I rather like to think that the DM's are (and again if I'm wrong please correct me ) going to be a bit more ardent on enforcing the domains a character should have based on their deity.

Grymia wrote:

Considering (if I read rightly) the increase in options for Domains is such to facilitate characters taking Deity appropriate domains, as opposed to having to come up with loose fits in what's in NWN Iron, I rather like to think that the DM's are (and again if I'm wrong please correct me ) going to be a bit more ardent on enforcing the domains a character should have based on their deity.

Yes, I agree, but what's your point (if you're arguing against me)?

My point is only that special cases where the system does not work impeccably (say, getting approval to use the cleric class to simulate something else or to worship something unconvential) are not inconceivable and therefore it's probably a smart cautionary measure to leave an exception switch into the system. You wouldn't want to end up in a situation where you think a concept is great and you want to approve it, but you can't because you just scripted yourself into a corner.

I'm pretty sure Mosh/others have already thought of this, I'm just pointing it out to those who're worried about special cases. Any decent system will have a way to facilitate special cases via DM intervention.

My point is, I SERIOUSLY Doubt that there's going to BE many accepted 'Special Cases'.

The point of this system is to allow for the domains more likely that a Priest/Cleric of a deity should have access to. By special case, I'm betting you would honestly have to come up with a very obscure or miniscule and unlikely reasoning for such, and then provide a VERY good request for it.

I think it's very likely. Nothing odd about it. Off the top of my head: I want to worship a planetar or fiend who doesn't have domains. I want to simulate Ur-Priest (though I personally don't think they fit in the Realms). Maybe I want to worship some demigods like the Bear not featured in the system. How about a primitive shaman with no single patron deity but a host of unnamed spirits (or a Kara-Turan priest)? Possibly there's a Specialty Priest or Prestige Class related to my deity that gets abilities almost identical to those of another domain, but the domain doesn't happen to belong to the deity in 3e (conceivable, though I don't know any examples). I wish people were more adventurous, instead of making the same cookie-cutter half-dragon requests and mass produced stereotypes over and over again.

But it doesn't matter how convincing those examples are. The point is, that determination is not for us to make, and it certainly shouldn't be made about unknown future cases, all for the purposes of some machine. That was the premise under which the deity system was implemented, too: it can be an awesome addition, but it will never ever place restrictions that would overrule something born of human creativity and good understanding between DMs and players. The deity system has already long ago turned into what I feared it would become from day one, and making deterministic scripts would shove it down the throats of future DMs and players and give them no options, which is obviously a nightmarish image.

In case there's any misunderstanding, I still think this is an awesome change. Provided, of course, that there is room for exceptions. And any half-assed scripter would implement that room, so I have no fears at all. Just hammering it into nay-sayer heads.

Shamans and similar more befit Druid then Cleric first off, or most anything of a strongly Nature based bent.

Second off, the DMs can come up with a suitable deity to use as a basis for reflecting something like that, I'd more then readily bet.

Third off: Ur-Priest is DEFINITELY a Special Request. (although I could see it in the Realms myself, actually) and would be worked out at that time.

shamans can be sorcs too i think

A valid point Kranium, depending on one's point of view.

We've got it all under control people, you're just performing an exercise in futility trying to guess.

ainjyll wrote:

We've got it all under control people, you're just performing an exercise in futility trying to guess.

Think of us as kids shaking wrapped Christmas gifts. Let us have our fun.

No. If you keep shaking the toy, you're going to break it.

It's right....there...and I can't...GAAAAH!!!!

When's this starting? I'm curious as to when I'll get to change Aly over, if I have to, I don't remember her domains.

When it's done.

AxlLeigh wrote:

I'm curious as to when I'll get to change Aly over, if I have to, I don't remember her domains.

Look it up using Amia Player Tools, each domain is an extra feat on the character sheet.

IronAngel wrote:

I think it's very likely. Nothing odd about it. Off the top of my head: I want to worship a planetar or fiend who doesn't have domains. I want to simulate Ur-Priest (though I personally don't think they fit in the Realms). Maybe I want to worship some demigods like the Bear not featured in the system. How about a primitive shaman with no single patron deity but a host of unnamed spirits (or a Kara-Turan priest)?

I think for an unsupported deity or power, you only get one open domain of your choice, rather than two.
Reasoning? Your deity's power doesn't reach the boonies that is Amia :lol:

This change is smoking, almost baited me back!

IronAngel wrote:

I think it's very likely. Nothing odd about it. Off the top of my head: I want to worship a planetar or fiend who doesn't have domains. I want to simulate Ur-Priest (though I personally don't think they fit in the Realms). Maybe I want to worship some demigods like the Bear not featured in the system. How about a primitive shaman with no single patron deity but a host of unnamed spirits (or a Kara-Turan priest)?

umm the bear is in the system, its mangar, and he was absorbed by rilifane, so you woul effectively be worshipping rilifane

This totally needed a bump and an estimated date of arrival. *hint hint* (Though I know it's been said, it'll be done when it's done, it feels like the five hour trip to disney world asking, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?")

Bumping ain't gonna help you. Unless we start getting paid wages for this and have to work to a deadline, it's done when it's done!

What if all of your base belong to us?

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Bumping ain't gonna help you. Unless we start getting paid wages for this and have to work to a deadline, it's done when it's done!

I will pay you, and only you, a penny, if it is finished by yesterday!

Crazy necropost *sorry!* Just have a quick question about the new domains and existing clerics who already have proper domains... if one of the new domains is given to the god of your existing cleric will we be allowed to change to a new domain or will we need to make a request for it?

ShadowSoul89 wrote:

All Clerics will be required to take two of their deity's listed domains. This will be enforced by a script, but fear not, clerics that have already been created will be able to gain the appropriate domains in the Entry Room. This will also be allowed for clerics who simply want to broaden their abilities through the new domains. Do keep in mind, you can only do this once without a request.

very nice... didnt feel like reading through the whole thing for something i suspected to begin with!

The new domains are pretty sweet so nobody's going to blame you for switching if you have an opportunity to do so freely.

Perhaps soon we will have stuff for specialized schools also?

No Planning...

Brilliant!

Especially the rule about enforcing the deity domain! Big, big thumb up for all the work and more RP-approach enforce. So long Travel abusers :lol:

!

Booze is on me tonight, you crazy Amia improvers, you!

Kjetta wrote:

This change is smoking, almost baited me back!

If I work-out and strip, will that work?

Hurry this up, Tormak! I know how you love reminders. *cracks the whip!*

It's actually done. Now the other surprises we're working on, on the other hand...

Grouchy Smurf wrote:

I hate surprises!

Sune, you tease. Spill the beans.

AxlLeigh wrote:

When's this starting?

TormakSaber wrote:

When it's done.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

It's actually done.

The Players wrote:

... ?

I don't mean to be a smartass.

I'm just really thrilled about this change, and can't restrain myself from being irritating about it.

Well, there was over a month gap between those posts. I would hope we'd have worked a little in that time!

You folks owe Tormak a new whip, his is just a nub of a stick given the beatings he handed to Suney over the last week. And you all need to give Selmak and Sune a hefty pat on the back since they did 99 percent of it.

It was my idea, but my ambition is far, far outweighed by my mediocrity.

Pffft cheers all around, cause everything did something =D

and here I was feeling guilty for a necro post... win!

Yeah, funny story, Sune asked me to tackle two things last Sunday. I started last Thursday, omnomnomed my way through the first thing and then started on the custom scripted domain powers this Sunday, finished on Wednesday.

Of course I would point out, it's easy to finish out a job when the details have been decided on, and the other pieces contributed by the team all fit neatly together. And remember that the testers now have to painstakingly try out the domains and see if they work as they're supposed to. So it's very much a team effort!

It's been fun to work on it, however briefly, because it has given the class a lot more diversity. Even though you will be locked into that selection of domains which your deity supports, the choices are actually quite decent now. And while obviously the build topic is going to get busy with people looking for advice on which domains to pick to make their cleric the bestest in combat (and why wouldn't they) I think it's going to be interesting to see how the in-game experience changes.

I hope the power tables of the new domains will be open for the public to see? Stats, spells,bonuses and what not?

Is that all you ever care about? How powerful something is?

Something awesomelooking/gadgety would be better than PvP usability.

Like a widget of instant climbing that throws you into walls? A la: Hey guys, I am totally glitched on this wall so I'm going to RP I'm walking up it with spiderclimb!

Just kidding. So long as the domains are mostly balance to PvM, I could honestly care less. Haste and invisibility potions exist for a reason afterall. Unless you are a cleric of Waukeen (Astilabor or some wealth obsessed god), cry me a river if suddenly potion costs for adventuring go up.

Well the Travel and Trickery Domains no longer have a monopoly on Haste and Invisibility. And as I've said, the choices that you do have are a lot better than before.

I rather worry about to what my death domain summon going to be replaced with. Get its skin on a EMD or so?

Coming to a Cleric Near You!

Who is online