|
|
|
Yurell
|
 Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 5:43 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
TormakSaber wrote: He asked how a PC could do it. If anyone is going to accomplish it, it's a PC.
Fair point.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
 |
|
The Incognitos
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 7:33 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
|
Yurell wrote: TormakSaber wrote: He asked how a PC could do it. If anyone is going to accomplish it, it's a PC. Fair point. Yes, this is true. A rational PC who knew they were plane shifting/traveling would then have to concede the point.
A PC that was fanatically attached to their beliefs(I place anyone fanatically attached to religion here) would then fall into the 'crazy person' category.
What of a PC that plane shifted but didn't realize it/believe it? I suppose this would fall into the ignorance/delusion category?
EDIT: Can I assume from this that 'any'(and I don't at all mean every) PC that doesn't plane shift to see the afterlife before they are sent there can hold reservations as to their post-death fate? _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
Last edited by The Incognitos on Mon, Mar 08 2010, 7:39 AM, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 7:35 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
I highly doubt that to be possible.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 7:36 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
I think it would be fairly difficult to accidentally cast a seventh level spell and coincidentally have a fork of the right size and metal to get to the fugue plane.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Incognitos
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 7:41 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
|
|
What about a Gate spell?
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 7:43 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
You don't believe you travelled to the Fugue Plane even though you cast a level 9 spell, specified 'Fugue Plane', and watch it successfully open a portal that you step through?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Incognitos
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 10:15 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
|
|
Can't someone else send them through? I'm not implying that they do it themselves.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 10:34 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
The Incognitos wrote: Can't someone else send them through? I'm not implying that they do it themselves.
I suppose they could. But once you're there it'd be pretty difficult to refuse to believe, given all the petitioners and the Wall.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Incognitos
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 11:30 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
|
The Incognitos wrote:
A PC that was fanatically attached to their beliefs(I place anyone fanatically attached to religion here) would then fall into the 'crazy person' category.
What of a PC that plane shifted but didn't realize it/believe it? I suppose this would fall into the ignorance/delusion category?
EDIT: Can I assume from this that 'any'(and I don't at all mean every) PC that doesn't plane shift to see the afterlife before they are sent there can hold reservations as to their post-death fate?
That's what I ment here _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logicality
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 11:41 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
|
|
It's also possible that a PC might reject what they've seen as the "death plane" to be where one goes upon death. The gods show immense power, and for all a given individual knows, they could be faking the whole wall and all things associated with it. God-level illusion magic, anyone?
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 12:40 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Logicality wrote: It's also possible that a PC might reject what they've seen as the "death plane" to be where one goes upon death. The gods show immense power, and for all a given individual knows, they could be faking the whole wall and all things associated with it. God-level illusion magic, anyone?
Rejecting empirical evidence as a handwavy illusion is probably an argument for psychosis or idiocy, since it is real. If it were an illusion, the he'd be a lone genius - instead he's paranoid.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logicality
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:17 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
|
|
I don't mean the place itself--obviously, that exists. However, why should one believe that a place they have plane-shifted to is where one goes upon death? The word of the gods is not, in this case, empirical evidence.
My point was that "convincing" details in the "death plane" might be fabricated by the gods--such as the spirits of those one has met before. Surely it is not beyond the power of the gods to create convincing illusory figures?
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:27 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Logicality wrote: I don't mean the place itself--obviously, that exists. However, why should one believe that a place they have plane-shifted to is where one goes upon death? The word of the gods is not, in this case, empirical evidence.
My point was that "convincing" details in the "death plane" might be fabricated by the gods--such as the spirits of those one has met before. Surely it is not beyond the power of the gods to create convincing illusory figures?
My point is that saying the Wall and the lines of petitioners with devils and demons doing their raids and an entire city made as an illusion by the gods just to trick you, the one person plane-shifting, is bordering on paranoia.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logicality
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:37 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
|
|
I'm not saying all of it is an illusion--I'm saying the parts specifically relating to individuals are illusions. While the Wall and petitioners and the city and the demons and devils might all be real, the real proof--seeing those you know to be dead in a "death plane"--may be illusory.
So while this city and its inhabitants, and the wall and the souls that make it up might all be real, it's unlikely that one would know most of the people in the city/wall. Those they do know are probably few in number (relatively), so they might be the product of illusion magic.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:39 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Logicality wrote: I'm not saying all of it is an illusion--I'm saying the parts specifically relating to individuals are illusions. While the Wall and petitioners and the city and the demons and devils might all be real, the real proof--seeing those you know to be dead in a "death plane"--may be illusory.
So while this city and its inhabitants, and the wall and the souls that make it up might all be real, it's unlikely that one would know most of the people in the city/wall. Those they do know are probably few in number (relatively), so they might be the product of illusion magic.
I'd say the chances of finding anyone in particular you know are quite low. And if you were looking for them, it might simply be easier to cast a scrying spell to receive the same information.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Merrien
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:02 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
|
Logicality wrote: It's also possible that a PC might reject what they've seen as the "death plane" to be where one goes upon death. The gods show immense power, and for all a given individual knows, they could be faking the whole wall and all things associated with it. God-level illusion magic, anyone?
I love this idea in its concept utterly. Even if I get burnt ((flamed?)) at the stake for it. Captures the imagination like crazy. _________________ 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:10 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Merrien wrote: Logicality wrote: It's also possible that a PC might reject what they've seen as the "death plane" to be where one goes upon death. The gods show immense power, and for all a given individual knows, they could be faking the whole wall and all things associated with it. God-level illusion magic, anyone? I love this idea in its concept utterly. Even if I get burnt ((flamed?)) at the stake for it. Captures the imagination like crazy. Crazy indeed, that's what we've been trying to say 
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kraniumbrud
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:39 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
|
|
i think we can agree that 99.9999999999% of the common people are sure of what to expect of the afterlife, and that it involved thier gods...and all the faithless adventures, the second they die the first time they would be faced with the reality of the what the fugue plane brings...it is fine to argue when you havnt seen it..but i doubt anyone on this server has not atleast died once..QED, theres the wall of souls, you are now a moron if you dont start beliving in gods 8P
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:44 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
You don't remember what happens after you die, and clearly people don't agree. Including several DMs. You should't handwave a discussion to get your way.
At this point though I feel anyone who doesn't want to, is just going to find a reason to not, no matter what is said. That's the explicit feeling I get rreadind Jess ' posts anyways.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
fjook
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:46 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: CANADA
|
Kraniumbrud wrote: i think we can agree that 99.9999999999% of the common people are sure of what to expect of the afterlife, and that it involved thier gods...and all the faithless adventures, the second they die the first time they would be faced with the reality of the what the fugue plane brings...it is fine to argue when you havnt seen it..but i doubt anyone on this server has not atleast died once..QED, theres the wall of souls, you are now a moron if you dont start beliving in gods 8P
Um, my one issue with that, is dont you forget all that apon coming back to life if ya do come back to life? _________________ 2006/2009 2nd craziest Character
Go here to learn more about Shada - http://fjook.piczo.com/?cr=3&rfm=y
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logicality
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 22:36 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
|
TormakSaber wrote: At this point though I feel anyone who doesn't want to, is just going to find a reason to not, no matter what is said.
Mind you, I have no faithless characters. I am merely arguing against what seems, to me, to be a gross underestimation of the capability of human(oid) reasoning.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 22:38 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Logicality wrote: TormakSaber wrote: At this point though I feel anyone who doesn't want to, is just going to find a reason to not, no matter what is said. Mind you, I have no faithless characters. I am merely arguing against what seems, to me, to be a gross underestimation of the capability of human(oid) reasoning. The incapability, as it turns out. Since their reasoning is wrong.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logicality
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 22:54 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
|
|
No, their conclusion is wrong. As I've shown, their reasoning is sound.
One can have fine reasoning and still be wrong, provided a certain degree of missing information (which there happens to be for characters).
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 23:01 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Logicality wrote: No, their conclusion is wrong. As I've shown, their reasoning is sound.
One can have fine reasoning and still be wrong, provided a certain degree of missing information (which there happens to be for characters).
Except their reasoning is based on the fact that every single god is out to trick them, and they went through all the effort to construct hundreds if not thousands of illusory people (all of whom would say that they are, in fact, dead) just to trick you. I think there's a point where Occam's Razor kicks in - they could have gone through all this effort to trick people, even creating a place called 'Fugue Plane' that wasn't where people go when they die, and are tricking every single scrying spell, or they could be telling the truth.
Distrust to the point of paranoia isn't the power of logical thinking (unless they really are out to get you!)
But to each their own, and it all boils down to IC beliefs anyway - if you can check, you probably will believe, if you can't you may have no idea.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logicality
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 23:41 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
|
|
It is based on the assumed fact that every single god is out to trick them, yes. Worship is essential to a god's continued existence, so it makes sense that any non-suicidal god would be fine with letting mortals think that. However, Occam's Razor doesn't actually apply here. We know the gods have immense power. What may be, for a mage, an enormous undertaknig, may be easy for them. It's not necessarily overly grand or complex.
Also, these "thousands of people" wouldn't all be illusions, only those the visitor knows personally would be. These thousands of people may simply be misguided spirits. DnD is full of insane people.
I'm sure there is such a thing as personalized illusions, but correct me if I'm wrong. As for the scrying spells? Well, if the illusions are created by gods, certainly they could be convincing enough to "fool" the scrying spells of mere mortals.
Perhaps there is another reason for this city and wall. Such might be the speculation of a plane-shifting adventurer. Perhaps it is conveniently used to recruit mortals to worshiping gods, but hides a deeper purpose.
So far, the only way one seems to be able to see the "afterlife" is through plane-shifting, which is not reliable because one cannot know if that's actually where one goes when one dies. There is absolutely no evidence that what one sees is what one gets. As Tormak said, one does not remember the afterlife upon being raised, either. So while OOC we might have a clear picture of all of it, it seems pretty damn impossible for most mortals (including PCs) to pin down what happens after death with certainty.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 23:44 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Logicality wrote: So far, the only way one seems to be able to see the "afterlife" is through plane-shifting, which is not reliable because one cannot know if that's actually where one goes when one dies.
Since the spell simply asks you to specify the plane, not name it, you could say 'The Plane I will go to when I die'. Unless, of course, the gods are so out to get you they are monitoring every spell you cast and changing them without you noticing.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Incognitos
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 0:07 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
|
TormakSaber wrote: You don't remember what happens after you die, and clearly people don't agree. Including several DMs. You should't handwave a discussion to get your way.
At this point though I feel anyone who doesn't want to, is just going to find a reason to not, no matter what is said. That's the explicit feeling I get rreadind Jess ' posts anyways.
You're pretty much on the money there. If a PC is that convinced that it is not true their mind will find a justification.
I don't think the same could be said of a rational and empirically minded PC who was faced with the plane shift evidence. Most of the population saying 'it' (the afterlife as many different gods claim it exists) exists combined with a plane shift to said 'afterlife' would almost undoubedly be the evidence they required.
Other PCs experiencing this would have to fall into the stubbonly deluded/utterly mad catergory. Honestly my argument all along has not been that anyone can say 'gods don't exist, spirituality is a crock' unless they have a damned good reason. On the subject of the afterlife however, I belive it is possible for a larger percentage of the population to have reasonable doubts. _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 4:39 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
I was talking about players being stubborn. Not PCs.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 5:15 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
Although with the evidence the PCs would have to be pretty stubborn to interpret the data in their own way.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Phantom-D
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 6:38 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
|
|
The fact people can literally travel to the planes where these gods exist and see them in their glory makes non-belief like modern creationism.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 6:47 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Phantom-D wrote: The fact people can literally travel to the planes where these gods exist and see them in their glory makes non-belief like modern creationism.
Yup. You can provide them with as much proof as you like but they are determined to disbelieve and there is nothing you can do about it (despite them seeing their logic as entirely consistent).
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Halecta
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 6:56 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
|
|
Does that mean those who worship Demon princes or Arch Devils dont get judged once they die? They can grant divine power like a god.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 6:59 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
Halecta wrote: Does that mean those who worship Demon princes or Arch Devils dont get judged once they die? They can grant divine power like a god.
Kelemvor judges everyone and everything, regardless of race, as far as I'm aware of.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 7:01 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
Except those who make deals with devils before reaching him AFAIK.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 7:55 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
I was under the impression Kelemvor still saw them if only to go "yup, he's yours, have fun."
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gravemaskin
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 7:58 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
|
TormakSaber wrote: I was under the impression Kelemvor still saw them if only to go "yup, he's yours, have fun."
Same here. I thought everyone at one point or another pass trough the gates, except the soulless and races/people without an afterlife.
_________________
Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:01 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
I can't find a reference one way or another .. I'll have a more thorough look after dinner (and edit it in if I can find anything)
Edit: Found something. Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of the Nine Hells p. 9 refers to the FR setting. From the wording it sounds as though they do not meet Kelemvor. It says 'where all souls go to await assignment to their respective deities' is the place where the devils lurk. If they're still waiting assignment, they probably haven't been judged by Kelemvor yet.
I can type out the entire block if you like, though.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Incognitos
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:44 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
|
TormakSaber wrote: I was talking about players being stubborn. Not PCs.
Derision is hardly constructive. I've changed my point of view considerably due to the discussion here, particularly insofar as a PCs actual belief in the existence of gods is concerned(unless they are a fanatic/crazy person).
Despite that I still think a PCs doubt in their fate after death is reasonable. There are considerations of trust, motivation and logic to consider. It strikes me as a touch narrow minded to dismiss reasonable argument as simple stubboness.
EDIT: The word 'idiot' is really not worth useing here. _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:49 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of the Nine Hells, p. 9 wrote: DEVILS OF THE FUGUE PLANE
In the cosmology of the FORGOTTEN REALMS setting, the devils of the Nine Hells acquire some of their souls in the various ways described above. In addition, small enclaves of devils lurk on the Fugue Plane, where all souls go to await assignment to their respective deities. By agreement with Kelemvor, the god of the dead, devils cannot harm or trick these waiting souls. It is permitted, however, for the devils to explain to the new arrivals that they are dead and must await the arrival of divine messengers to take them to their deities' realms. During that time, the devils can attempt to bargain with the souls.
Some souls - especially those pledged to evil deities and those that fear the punishments they might suffer in their deities' realms - jump at the opportunity to avoid their fates. In exchange for consigning themselves to the Nine Hells, such souls might be offered early promotion from lemure form, material riches for friends and family in Faerûn, or the services of devilish attacks on their still-living enemies. Especially powerful souls can even bargain for an automatic promotion into a form other than that of a lemure. Once such a bargain is signed, the newly acquired soul is carried directly back to a station in the Nine Hells for torture and transshipment.
Decided to type it out anyway. Sorry if there are any typos I missed, I tried to type it quickly.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Herra Tutteri
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 10:27 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Location: Vaasa, Finland
|
|
Woo... Beware, you soulless freaks! Once we take you down, you'll STAY that way!
_________________ Characters: Hunar Iroff, The red-bearded, grumpy dwarf with a bastard sword. Chair of Military Issues Daren Sten, High Inquisitor of the Eternal Order of Kelemvor on Amia 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gunz
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 11:11 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
|
|
Kelemvor doesn't judge the souls who get kidnapped by Demons though! Muahahahaha!!!!!
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
|
|
|
|
|
|
blackvswhite
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 11:41 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
|
|
To make an RL comparison...
Dinosaurs don't exist. Its all photoshop. Show me a real living dinosaur. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you do have proven evidence)
Gods don't exist. The clerics are trying to trick us. Show me a God face to face. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you can pray to Kossuth and blow me to smithereens)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 11:43 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Kelemvor doesn't judge the souls who get kidnapped by Demons though! Muahahahaha!!!!! Really? I thought they got torn from the Wall (i.e. post-judgement). blackvswhite wrote: Show me a God face to face. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you can pray to Kossuth and blow me to smithereens)
They did 20 years ago
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Maias227
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 11:45 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Location: Denmark (GMT+1)
|
|
Demons doesn't raid a specific place every time but they have attacked the wall numerous times. To my understanding however they've also tried do snatch faithful waiting for pickup. Which the devils just love since that means they get to fight them.
_________________
...Hereof follows that the social contract is only beneficial as long as all have something and none have too much...
- Rousseau Book 1 Chapter 9 in "The Social Contract"
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Incognitos
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 12:39 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
|
|
edit: misquoted
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
Last edited by The Incognitos on Tue, Mar 09 2010, 12:42 PM, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kraniumbrud
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 12:41 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
|
blackvswhite wrote: To make an RL comparison...
Dinosaurs don't exist. Its all photoshop. Show me a real living dinosaur. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you do have proven evidence)
Gods don't exist. The clerics are trying to trick us. Show me a God face to face. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you can pray to Kossuth and blow me to smithereens)
you cant compare it with real life...it would be like god suddenly showing up in the middle of time square and proclaimed that the aztec had the right idea, trust me you would see head rolling down pyramids within a few days...and it would still happen 20 years after...especially if the clerics start to fling around spells and blow up infidels.
PS
as for the dinousaurs, they didnt die out 20 years ago..and even then you are still a idiot if you dont "belive" in the dinosaurs existed.
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gravemaskin
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 12:55 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
|
blackvswhite wrote: To make an RL comparison...
Dinosaurs don't exist. Its all photoshop. Show me a real living dinosaur. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you do have proven evidence)
Gods don't exist. The clerics are trying to trick us. Show me a God face to face. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you can pray to Kossuth and blow me to smithereens)
Gods HAVE walked the ground on Amia, even standing in Cordor. Several of my chars have met one too, so the comparison doesn't really work.
It would be like not believing in guns, just because you have never seen one up close.
_________________
Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
|
|
|
|
|
|
Herra Tutteri
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 14:02 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Location: Vaasa, Finland
|
Gravemaskin wrote: blackvswhite wrote: To make an RL comparison...
Dinosaurs don't exist. Its all photoshop. Show me a real living dinosaur. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you do have proven evidence)
Gods don't exist. The clerics are trying to trick us. Show me a God face to face. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you can pray to Kossuth and blow me to smithereens) Gods HAVE walked the ground on Amia, even standing in Cordor. Several of my chars have met one too, so the comparison doesn't really work. It would be like not believing in guns, just because you have never seen one up close. Guns do exist, boyo! They're fancy. _________________ Characters: Hunar Iroff, The red-bearded, grumpy dwarf with a bastard sword. Chair of Military Issues Daren Sten, High Inquisitor of the Eternal Order of Kelemvor on Amia
|
|
|
|
|
|
Merrien
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 18:39 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
|
|
[quote="Logicality"]It is based on the assumed fact that every single god is out to trick them, yes.[quote]
...so you're not paranoid if they're really out to get you? <_<
EDIT: yes, I boofed that quote, sorry!
_________________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nysor
|
Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 18:44 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Location: Wherever it is, it better not be cold
|
blackvswhite wrote: To make an RL comparison...
Dinosaurs don't exist. Its all photoshop. Show me a real living dinosaur. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you do have proven evidence)
Gods don't exist. The clerics are trying to trick us. Show me a God face to face. You can't? They must not be real. (even if you can pray to Kossuth and blow me to smithereens)
Such blowing to smithereens can be arranged 
_________________
Nysor Shorshanis: A squirrel in his own right
Solrend Inignus: The Kossuthian cleric who is "hot, but not in that way"
Adin Twitterleaf: Crazy elven trickster.
Isaac Kley: Young gimp of a sorcerer.
|
|
|
|
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Login
