AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Cordor RP is not automatically a bunch of jaded, lazy adventurers standing on marked spots and going "We are not amused" all day long. Sure it's easy to make it look that way. I've had great RP there, and neutral ground is an opportunity to meet more or less peacefully with people that you usually wouldn't. No one says that you have to be content with the giggling crowd. RP is made by the individual, not by the fabled masses of retarded people.

And to barring people from Cordor which supposedly will do wonders for RP, I can only say.. let's not push people into territory that they don't wanna be in. This is just a recipy for lameness.

I really can't say that my perspective of Cordor RP is necessarily accurate any more, due to not having visited and RP'ed in Cordor for more than 7 months now.

xordae wrote:

Cordor RP is not automatically a bunch of jaded, lazy adventurers standing on marked spots and going "We are not amused" all day long. Sure it's easy to make it look that way. I've had great RP there, and neutral ground is an opportunity to meet more or less peacefully with people that you usually wouldn't. No one says that you have to be content with the giggling crowd. RP is made by the individual, not by the fabled masses of retarded people.

I'm not denying that good RP happens in Cordor, by any stretch. I'm simply saying it would be a good experience for most characters, regardless of their previous RP. I do not buy for one moment that anyone's RP will be ruined beyond all salvation if one city on the whole big Isle is not accessible for maybe 3 days to a week.

xordae wrote:

... let's not push people into territory that they don't wanna be in. This is just a recipy for lameness.

Actually... I think that's more of a recipe for RP actually. I mean, it's not like we're forcing anyone into torture RP, we're incapaciting one of the Ilse's famous cities through plot and RP. We'd not even be forcing anything on anyone, you could just go wherever the heck you want, when you want, and do what you want... just not in Cordor for X amount of days as DM's and PCs perhaps advance the plot to get it back. Roll with the Punches, I believe is the motto. Sometimes an adverse situation is a great story-mover.

So it boils down to my idea of RP > your idea, again.

Shaking well-established foundations is great, grand plots and destruction are great, driving people out to do something is great. But please, let that happen when it happens. Don't push for it because you think you know what's good for people. Guess what, if they want to hang around faction & race areas, they will find their way there eventually. Ask around Cordor if they do, and you might hear something like..

"I went there a couple of times, I just found my Elven kin to be too snotty / Druids too huggy / Kohlingen too zealous / Drow chicks too bitchy, and that's why I'm here."

xordae wrote:

So it boils down to my idea of RP > your idea, again.

I'm not sure where this is coming from. Tormak asked how would having Cordor go bye bye for few days would improve RP. I was explaining how I thought it would... I don't ever recall saying my RP or ideas there of where better than anyone elses, just supporting an idea. >_>

Yurell wrote:

As for how, riots - massive riots against adventurers make Cordor inaccessible for a few days. Place a portal in the Temple of Waukeen to Amia forest, and have the place barricaded.

Death for trade.

Actually, it's kinda funny that RP agrument. My RP vs your RP and such. Because when it boils down to it, what actually is the definition of RP? Role Playing is the usual answer. But clearly that's not the case as Role Playing can be defined as anything you play the role of. Playing the role of a man who runs around screaming "U's @r3 @11 L33t N00bs" and such could be considered RP. But by the general majority it is not.

I think saying "My Idea of RP vs Your Idea of RP" is silly. As RP has already been defined, your idea of it doesn't matter. It's Role Playing.

What would make more sense is to say "This is how I believe we should behave when role playing our characters", rather then claiming your idea is RP. Then it just boils down to actual personal observation, rather then any definition, and can actually be goverened by how people are expected to approach Amia, and not RP.

Talking about roleplaying and how it should be in theory, is only useful up to a point. If you want to change things for the better, you're going to have to get in-game and show everyone why your idea has merit. And similarly, if you want to be open to change, you're going to have to see the merit of other players' ideas as presented through roleplaying.

I mean you could go for another four pages discussing this, but you'll get something done if you just get in-game and try it out to see if it works. If you want to document what went right and what went wrong, and discuss that, then great.

Yurell wrote:

As for the point in hand, I do think it would be nice to move the default spawn point to the top floor of the Nomad, and the crystal binds of other villages within their respective inns, but I withdraw my support for the xp idea.

And any news on this?

I like the idea of spawn points being in inns...

Or resting only in inns when in town.

No one has yet to put forth what is to me a real reason for doing this.

It makes more sence for an adventurer to start in an inn than a temple of a god they dont worship or nesisarily even like?

Crowsterf wrote:

It makes more sence for an adventurer to start in an inn than a temple of a god they dont worship or nesisarily even like?

In my opinion this be a good enough reason to change it. At least in the inn your only annoyed by the people and not the diety

An inn many don't live at, don't sleep in, and may never visit over the course of their careers?

You teleport directly into the Waukeen temple. Regardless of whether or not you worship there.

Makes more sense... to who? You? Your opinion.

For some odd and inexplicable reason I think it makes more sense to keep starting in the Temple. You could just say they were curious about Tristana's wares as opposed to coming out of an Inn they have no business stepping into.

Let's face it. Inns will never be too popular, or as popular as they should. I personally wouldn't spend too much time in any of them because the Inn music ruins my immersion and disturbs my train of thought.

My overall response to the last few posts:

Forcing people to start within inns by no means assures or encourages rp to take place within them. No more than currently having the spawnpoint of Cordor in the temple of Waukeen encourages any rp in that same temple. People spawn, and run out. Any grouping of PC's is around the merchant, not the actual temple.

I still stand by making inn NPC's autonomously interactive. Why? Because it makes people want to go to inns, not force them to start there and change nothing else. You put people in a spot with nothing to interact with, nothing but a drink merchant that doesn't really sell anything "useful", you can't expect people to want to be there. Put something they actually -want- inside an inn, and they'll line up. That's simple.

But now figuring out what to put inside an inn to interest people, now that's the issue. My answer is dynamic NPCs and "mundane"/"gossip" quests.

It would be fun to have an option to go to a random start point. Though the randomness would be limited to where your current bind points take you to.

The reason why particular locations are redundant is because players don't think to use them, and then they don't get used and then players don't think to use them because practically nobody uses them. You can't change that unless you have a surefire way of getting traffic.

The function of an inn is to provide some entertainment for the adventurers, rather than being The One Starting Point for adventures, which is mostly a narrative device.

First of all you need to give ol' Griff some more bloody conversation file. It may seem like a trivial thing, but if you want people to use an area you have to give it some character, and right now the Nomad is kinda lackluster.

Second of all, it wouldn't hurt to have a few recurring NPCs that are at one inn or another from time to time. It beats having generic nameless patrons. Even if they don't walk up and butt into your conversation on their own, they can make the place a bit more colourful.

Third and finally, find some way to entertain players. If you've got a placeable archery target, bring it by and see if you can get someone to play darts with you. Or maybe you like cards better. Either way, a fun activity is something that players are more likely to join.

The crystal in the Waukeen temple is an OOC kludge to 'start' somewhere uniformly for folk. Its just the way it goes, a limitation of the game system. Suspension of belief/disbelief has to be utilized sometimes.

I actually some time ago went round and round on the very same topic, that I started myself about such a suggested change. Then I understood the.. 'Let the others be how they will be (Or RP how they will RP for that matter). Foster with creative ideas how you can.'

I would say that trying to suggest ideas that improve the RP environment/atmosphere on the server, is the right way to go, Like Lath did.

Creating ideas that force people to adhere to -YOUR- version of what you think is 'Proper/Good RP' is not a good way to go as Tormak has made clear so far by his examples.

I'm sure the former ideas would get much more traction than the latter by both the players and the staff.

Quote:

The crystal in the Waukeen temple is an OOC kludge to 'start' somewhere uniformly for folk. Its just the way it goes, a limitation of the game system. Suspension of belief/disbelief has to be utilized sometimes.

OOC? Absolutely not. It's the focal point of the busiest section of Cordor and also the main focal point for the Portal Wand system developed by the Mystrans. You'll notice that when you walk outside, there is a mage guard to your left and a normal guard to your right, to keep an eye on the numerous adventurers exiting from the temple via teleportation.

Obviously your very very first time you came off the boats but after that you've got your portal wand and if you're bound to Cordor, that means you're bound to the Waukleen Temple unless you've specifically chosen somewhere else, either in Cordor or on/around the island.

Well, I'd say the most viable answer is this, people arrive on the island. It's probably more likely they would stay at he inn then the waukeen temple. Kinda makes no sense to suddenly appear out no where in the waukeen temple. Nevermind your religious and alignment postions for the character, which possibly conflict with suddenly "popping" into waukeen's temple. Say for example, a Cleric of Mask suddenly popping into Waukeens temple, dispite it being well known that Waukeen hates theifs and dislikes Mask immensly. Makes little sense.

Thats the only argument.

Quote:

Say for example, a Cleric of Mask suddenly popping into Waukeens temple, dispite it being well known that Waukeen hates theifs and dislikes Mask immensly.

Relies on the Temple knowing said PC is a cleric of mask, siad PC revealing himself as a cleric of mask , and the NPCs caring that he's maskarran as long as he's not stealing from their temple (hint: He's not, so they don't)

The rest of the argument still remains. What about all the other adventurers? Surely we need not make up server-wide excuses to cover the introductions of an entire server full of characters.

A simple solution is to make both options available to new characters as they enter the mirror. That is, allowing them the decision to start at either the Nomad or the temple. Just put a little [recommended] bracket next to the Nomad entry... :wink:

Perhaps a more complex incentive would be a change of pace from the delivery job most new folk attend to. Maybe a Nomad job board of some kind, run by PCs? Even generic NPC tasks would be possible. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to get together, managed by some kind of widget similar to the party ball: instead of "looking for party," you'd be "looking for work," signifying an assembly made for a more feasible RP reason besides "going out for a hunt".

It may be too much to ask, however. It might require an expansion of the job system, perhaps leading to a party-based effort to completing some tasks.

Maybe I just think too hard about these things.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

The crystal in the Waukeen temple is an OOC kludge to 'start' somewhere uniformly for folk. Its just the way it goes, a limitation of the game system. Suspension of belief/disbelief has to be utilized sometimes.

OOC? Absolutely not. It's the focal point of the busiest section of Cordor and also the main focal point for the Portal Wand system developed by the Mystrans. You'll notice that when you walk outside, there is a mage guard to your left and a normal guard to your right, to keep an eye on the numerous adventurers exiting from the temple via teleportation.

Obviously your very very first time you came off the boats but after that you've got your portal wand and if you're bound to Cordor, that means you're bound to the Waukleen Temple unless you've specifically chosen somewhere else, either in Cordor or on/around the island.

Mnff.. My bad. I'm still breaking the mould of 'The Wands/Portal system are now a complete IC device' after years of them being treated the opposite or at least a 'semi-ooc' thing.

They were never OOC and anyone who treated them that was was wrong. They've never not been IC.

..You know you /can/ set your own starting place to the Nomad if you so want? Or where-ever else you want. Just most people prefer to start in Cordor Temple I guess.

I don't think making the default start the Nomad is thre right way to go about this.

Dark wrote:

..You know you /can/ set your own starting place to the Nomad if you so want? Or where-ever else you want. Just most people prefer to start in Cordor Temple I guess.

Why do they choose to start in the temple rather than the inn? Becaue they can restock on heal kits and potions before they run out of the temple. Like I said, any grouping in the Temple of Waukeen is usually around the merchant. And it's only temporary before people go back out.

The inn has nothing to offer people. Not until people start hanging out there. When will they start hanging out there? When we put something in it and make them want to be there. I will say it again, spawnpoints alone are not a solution to making inns "inn"-joyable. That's my bad pun for the day.

The two most populated places in Cordor at a given time: Cordor Square, the Market Hall. One has interaction with PC's and NPC's, the other has shops. The Nomad has neither. Fix that, you'll fix the "problem" of inns being the emptiest places on the server.

I choose to start in the temple instead of the inn, because I have all my bindpoints full, and could really use a couple extra. I'm not wasting a precious slot on another location in cordor, when i already get one by default, even if the default one is absolutely inappropriate. Which it is.

Bind point 1 is a two-fer since it is also the default location on Amia B. If you were able to alter it, you might inadvertantly make it impossible for yourself to get into Amia B from the entry area, unless I'm mistaken about that. It's always good to have one place that you can definitely get to.

Using one bind point to start where you want to start, I'd hardly call that a waste. it's more likely that there are other places that you can get to using your portal wand, that you might as well just go to using the other transport options that are available. A little gold is nothing, compared to what it'd cost for you to buy a minor mythal, should you have to.

Bind point 1 can be changed by yourself, when you first enter the mirror (with new characters), to a racial start area if there is one, *or* by a dm to a very select few options (basically, afaik, the same selection of racial start areas).

It'd be very handy if Bind 1 on A was someplace a bit more neutral ground.

Like an inn.

A temple is just not a good default bind location, even if it is a mostly neutral temple. I'd even prefer if the crystal by Ey Ceeu(?) by the north gate were the default, though inside an inn would be nicer.

Well if it's possible to make the list of new-character starting points larger, then that would obviously be good.

Yay! something else I get to put in my random, most likely wordy, and probably going to annoy someone opinion on!

I'll try an keep this short though. Through my whole life I have noticed one thing. In Highschool, we always hung out where the beer and pot were, in college, we always hung out where the beer and pot were, in the Marines, we always hung out where the beer and whiskey were, Working construction we always hung out where the beer and various other vice was, working in fast food, we always hung out where the beer and other various vice was, being unemployed, we always hang out where the beer and other vice is.
Adventurers are hardy people for the most part, they work hard killing stuff and doing whatever else they do, and most people who work hard like that play hard, and drink. Sure, I'll stand on the street an talk to someone, but the bar is the social center of most societies, heck, even the Masons I know have bars in their Lodges, the Moose, Elks, and Knights of Columbus too! Most people good rain gear or not, would rather be inside when they don't have to be outside. Atleast the bathhouse gets some people in it, mabey we need a nudie bar in Cordor.

Cori wrote:

I choose to start in the temple instead of the inn, because I have all my bindpoints full, and could really use a couple extra. I'm not wasting a precious slot on another location in cordor, when i already get one by default, even if the default one is absolutely inappropriate. Which it is.

So you agree that your starting point has little to do with you staying there to RP if you don't want to be there in the first place, yes?

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that starting in an Inn will have little to no effect on whether I personally will stay in said Inn and RP there.

I am pro-change because it makes more sense to start in an inn than to make everyone start inside any temple, unless starting inside said temple is by choice.

I'd be equally happy if the start area was ~any~ of the numerous other crystals in Cordor.

Mind, this does not mean that other players won't rp in the inn if that's where the startpoint was. But I personally will not - I rp wherever I am, and if I want to go to an Inn, I'll do so regardless of where I start.

Yes, and I'm glad you at least see it that way, but people will choose to not RP in inns for the same reason you're not: it doesn't interest them OoCly and/or ICly. It may "make sense" but it's still not making it interesting. I agree that a *heavy quotes* "average" adventurer would be staying in an inn over a temple of X god, but it's not solving the original problem of getting RP back into the inns, and out of the streets when it raining and freezing outside.

It's kinda like waiting for the "Good Samaritan" to come along and take the initiative to RP in some inn. And in truth, some usually do trickle in over the time. But instead of just waiting for them to come by, or starting them there, we should attract them.

Perhaps there's no "saving" this issue. There's so many "But my PC likes fresh air/doesn't mind the rain/was born on an iceblock/has ogre-skin" to the point they can truly justify just standing outside all the time. Indefinently. Til something "happens" at least. But the Inn is such a classic in D&D it seems a shame just to let if fall by the wayside. I still say interactive NPC's, as it also allows the PC to contact some of the "invisible people" of Amia, as well as being a new twist in Amia. I don't know, maybe we're just grasping at straws.

If you want to RP in the Nomad, it's two transitions and very little walking away from the temple. It's probably not the bind points. It probably has more to do with, as above, the lack of essential services provided by said inn.

As a player, you can't help but be influenced by how essential you perceive something to be. And if you think that, guaranteed there will be a number of other players who also think that.

The only thing you can do is think instead of what your character would need. Rest and recreation, food and drink, for example. You can assume roleplay that your character gets these between adventures, or you can do roleplay that satisfies those needs. The choice is yours.

What you need to bear in mind is that as above, if you think a place is essential enough to spend some time in, then other players (if they think that the roleplaying is good) might start thinking that too.

If people are going to go to inns, it'll be because of two things:

1 - They like the area. I don't like any of the inns we have. They are boring. The Chamberpot was the only bar that felt like it had a cool atmosphere, that I actually wanted to go to. It actually *felt* like a non-static place. No automated npc's required.

2 - There is a mechanical reason. Currently, all the merchants, "shady" or not, are in their own little shops/caves/whatever. Put the shady black-market style npc merchants inside an inn, and people will go there to visit said npc. WHILE there, rp may occur. But, not likely.

The bottom line is, Cordor square is the main highway for foot traffic. If the north gate were moved to cordor central, and the start point was cordor central, and the merchants of importance were...cordor central (currently, all these things are cordor east, aka, the square), and suddenly, the square would become empty, and a new "square" would form where the new foottraffic hub would be.

This isn't D&D. It's NWN. People have no good reason to hang out inside an inn. Even putting *everything* inside an inn - merchants, bindpoints, player merchant stalls, *everything* - it still wouldn't make people hang out inside the inn. It'd just increase traffic through them. People don't "hang out" inside the merchant hall, nor inside the Waukeen temple. They do what they need to do, and leave.

EDIT: Actually, I somewhat like the inn Wiltun has. Somewhat. Still lacks...something. But it's better than any of the others. Could be the tileset.

You obviously never saw the new and improved Iron Butterfly I made for Carter when he was re-building Winya Ravana... Now the bastards ticked off and my work has become superfluous!

There are times when players linger in the temple and the market hall. With the temple it's sometimes to wait around and see if anyone needs an extra sword arm, in the market hall there's sometimes players selling goods.

While that's not really hanging out, it's not really going away to do the next thing on the agenda either.

It doesn't actually matter whether players go to an inn or not, what matters is that there is some kind of outlet for the RP that they want to do (assuming it doesn't break all sorts of rules). If there isn't an outlet then it leads to frustration.

The thing is, it can get to be a bit of a routine. What 'it' is for anyone else, I don't know, but a routine can become boring for you and for everyone else. So if you spot yourself or someone else becoming predictable, that's a good time to switch tracks. Do something for the hell of doing something different.

Cori wrote:

A temple is just not a good default bind location, even if it is a mostly neutral temple. I'd even prefer if the crystal by Ey Ceeu(?) by the north gate were the default, though inside an inn would be nicer.

Isn't he near the boats, too? That would make a lot more sense for the new arrivals than the Temple, although as you say I'd prefer the inn.

Inns Aren't INNportant!

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