I think what a lot of factions miss out on is how to be 'good'. In order to be good IMO you should be willing to help others and offer aid, regardless or race. When you see cruelty being enacted uppon a being you should intervene. When you see some one in trouble whom cannot help themselves you should offer help. When you see some one hurt or ailing you should ask if you can be of service in aiding them. When you hate some one's guts, despite your attitude you should always be willing to offer help. This is what makes a good person good. Kindness, generosity, and empathy are qualities I consider when thinking of an over all good person.
Examples of things I've seen 'good' characters do that really isn't all that good....
Throwing Clay Balls at some one who has offered your city aid and kindness -- doing so just because of their race is an act of /Malice/.
Leaving a city you are sworn to protect simply because you do not agree with the folks who show up in the city is not a good thing. To leave your post simply because you are 'uncomfortable' by the 'evil' being that enter goes against the promise to protect the city and it's denizens. To abandon the innocents rather then to ensure their safety from these folks you deem 'evil' is wrong. Learn some self control.
Interrogating an innocent while high on drugs and then murdering them in cold blood only to try and dispose of the body and clean up the mes so no one else would know is really not a good thing.
When a city is in dire need and some one offers to help-And you quite literally tell that person to 'Fuck Off'... well it's not helping the cause.
Torturing people is not a good act. I mean like serious torture like disembowelment, flaying, acid in the eyes, the rack... all that is not good to do to another living creature; That is cruel.
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❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
While I agree with your point Passionate, a lot of examples you seem to give scream Chaotic Good, as opposed to Lawful Good, which is what I think you're trying to say is The Good :p
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"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
While I agree with your point Passionate, a lot of examples you seem to give scream Chaotic Good, as opposed to Lawful Good, which is what I think you're trying to say is The Good :p
Chaotic good --with blowing up a ship-full of Amish troops during the war that are set to land and attack the city pillage and kill all in sight- if there's a good intention some malice may be seen but being cruel because it's fun isn't good.
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❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
While I agree with your point Passionate, a lot of examples you seem to give scream Chaotic Good, as opposed to Lawful Good, which is what I think you're trying to say is The Good :p
Chaotic good iwth blowing up a ship-full of Amish troops during the war- if there's a good intention some malice may be seen but being cruel because it's fun isn't good.
As not to devolve this in to an alignment war, I think a lot of your examples are simply up for interpretation. Someone who is Chaotic Good may torture or flay their enemies for information on how to destroy them all, that is not to say someone who is Lawful Good will go about it the same way.
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"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Joined: 23 Sep 2012 Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)
I think it is written somewhere that even a Paladin isn't against breaking an arm or nose if a bad guy is withholding some pretty crucial information. The gods are fairly lenient in some situations, other times far less so. It's usually up to the DM team to decide the outcome of a certain action. It can be interpreted by PCs in any way possible, it's what the god themselves decide that denotes if it's allowed or not.
_________________ Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand
While I'm agreeing with you PS, as I said in game and I'll say it here. Good and evil in RL and in FR setting is different. Smiting evil in FR setting is an act of good, while in RL it may be considered evil (I consider it evil!). A metallic dragon disciple throwing clay balls on a black dragon disciple is also an appropriate action according to FR and Amian lore.
@R_E: Paladins were made fallen for what you just described....actually for far lesser evil too.
I think it is written somewhere that even a Paladin isn't against breaking an arm or nose if a bad guy is withholding some pretty crucial information. The gods are fairly lenient in some situations, other times far less so. It's usually up to the DM team to decide the outcome of a certain action. It can be interpreted by PCs in any way possible, it's what the god themselves decide that denotes if it's allowed or not.
Kamina wrote:
PassionateShadow wrote:
Kamina wrote:
While I agree with your point Passionate, a lot of examples you seem to give scream Chaotic Good, as opposed to Lawful Good, which is what I think you're trying to say is The Good :p
Chaotic good iwth blowing up a ship-full of Amish troops during the war- if there's a good intention some malice may be seen but being cruel because it's fun isn't good.
As not to devolve this in to an alignment war, I think a lot of your examples are simply up for interpretation. Someone who is Chaotic Good may torture or flay their enemies for information on how to destroy them all, that is not to say someone who is Lawful Good will go about it the same way.
I do not agree with the black and white ideals or aspects however I have found this is the standard I was held to. I agree in the idea that certain circumstances should be exempt as the morally grey comes in to things. If you are doing what you are doing for the effect of an over arching good and staying true to your virtues and Dogma I feel a God should perhaps throw in their two cents. If this isn't how Amia does things I would rather have a DM explain to me how this is done as I've only been given drive that this is just how it is.
While I'm agreeing with you PS, as I said in game and I'll say it here. Good and evil in RL and in FR setting is different. Smiting evil in FR setting is an act of good, while in RL it may be considered evil (I consider it evil!). A metallic dragon disciple throwing clay balls on a black dragon disciple is also an appropriate action according to FR and Amian lore.
@R_E: Paladins were made fallen for what you just described....actually for far lesser evil too.
Who said anything about dragons? Imo Cruelty is a form of Torture- Torture is a form of Evil-- Cruelty is Evil.
But in all Honesty to Answer the OP--
Mr. Hackums wrote:
I'm in the process of creating a good-guy faction, myself. I just need more time to ensure that I'm sticking around, and a little more time to make it naturally work. But feel free to hit me up if you're curious. Is exactly why I'm doing this in the first place! To try to continue and provide compelling conflict from the other side of the fence.
I encourage you to OOCly perhaps try and find some meeting time to where you can get your character to talk.
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❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
What I always enjoyed about "do the ends justify the means?" examples is flipping the switch: if thousands died because you refused to lie, are you responsible for their deaths?
PassionateShadow wrote:
Imo Cruelty is a form of Torture
You are correct, in that that is definitely an opinion.
The definition you quote notes "severe", not to mention a sense of purpose to the acts.
I think it's fine the way it is. It makes it matter when Good PCs actually, genuinely try to redeem Evil PCs. In a world of special snowflakes, it's the people who go above and beyond without expressly being forced to who stand out.
I have my thoughts on that, but there's no point discussing it in this thread. Let's just say redemption was not not in the cards, and with Sam he was still head and shoulders above most of the people she knows in regards to her history ;D
You should PM me your thoughts!! I would love to hear them. I'm sure we're entertaining someone with our brief sidetracks. Maybe? ... No? ... Who is going to create the next good guy faction then huh?! I think the OP should, personally!
I think it is written somewhere that even a Paladin isn't against breaking an arm or nose if a bad guy is withholding some pretty crucial information. The gods are fairly lenient in some situations, other times far less so. It's usually up to the DM team to decide the outcome of a certain action. It can be interpreted by PCs in any way possible, it's what the god themselves decide that denotes if it's allowed or not.
The last few posts are why I generally cringe at the thought of playing LG characters on roleplay servers. Far too many people judge LG and/or good religions by the standards and tenets of judo-christianity when it's important to denote that they are NOT anywhere near the same. No LG religion exists in FR setting that even remotely espouses "turn the other cheek" or "try to redeem everyone." Those are particular tenets of a real world monotheistic religion that make no logical sense in a multi-pantheistic setting of competitive deities, cultures, and races. This doesn't even begin to touch on the fact that most deities who support paladins wouldn't give a wit if those paladins acted in a way incongruous with Christianity's teachings because their portfolios and suppliers of influence have zero overlap. What in the world does Sune or Tyr have in common with the teachings of Jesus? Almost nothing. "Turn the other cheek" and "attempt to redeem everyone" are both literally meaningless, nonsensical, and foolishly suicidal when every person alive prescribes to a very real deity who's in competition with yours and offers their followers a paradise and even LG religions have holy wars with each other. (Heck, in FR LG churches within the same religion have even gone to war within themselves die to schisms and racial and regional differences. )
It makes me cringe at the thought of playing a cleric or paladin devoted to some deity and someone complaining because my character told a lie (or did something else that doesn't have a thing to do with living an orderly and good life and doesn't cross my deity's portfolio) just because they seem to not understand my character isn't worshipping Jesus or the 10 commandments and the god I do represent has a reality and spheres of influence nowhere near "love EVERYBODY."
_________________ Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice
(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)
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I'm sure we're entertaining someone with our brief sidetracks. Maybe? ... No? ... Who is going to create the next good guy faction then huh?! I think the OP should, personally!