AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Hak Class Changes

Most of them can't report their earnings because prostitution is illegal.

It isn't in New Zealand!

I'm totally moving to New Zealand. I've always wanted to be a hooker.

I likes the looks of those there changins. Mighty fine work ya'll been doin 'ere.

Don't go to NZ! The sheep will run your business dry.

....Ew.

It's the New Zealanders that run their sheep dry.

And this topic is headed for a lock unless we get back on topic. -- Great changes!

Yes it is...

wereguy2 wrote:

....Ew.

Ewe.

I see what you did there.

Hooray for making PrCs better!

Well I am holding my 19 level of BG so I can get extra turning. I soon need that 11 uses doesn't outlast my potions. Have to be very judicious with them. I am a tad sadistic though charisma based duergar. :twisted:

Idea: Divine Might and Divine Shield for Divine Champions. Or atleast Divine Shield. Or would that make them too OP?

Divine Champions don't get Turn Undead. So nope.

Is there any way to give a class Turn Undead but script something that makes them unable to use it? Like maybe something that takes the number of uses they get per day and subtract that same amount from their number of uses?

idk just throwing it out there XD

..Oh yeah. *Facepalm* Was only suggesting, because for melee classes to have High AC, they need either Cleric, Pala, or BG.

Naivatkal wrote:

Is there any way to give a class Turn Undead but script something that makes them unable to use it? Like maybe something that takes the number of uses they get per day and subtract that same amount from their number of uses?

idk just throwing it out there XD

Yes, but we're not doing it.

Booo hissssssss!

(just kidding :3)

Divine Might and Divine Shield use Turn Undead uses to fire...so if 'The Lord Giveth, Then The Lord Taketh Away', a Divine Champion still couldn't use it.

I think...irrelevant anyway, for The Lord Hath Spoken. :twisted:

Could we get a bit more crunch? What exactly are these auras? What are there mechanics? These new traps - what are their specs: damage potential, added effects, saves.

Still wish the base traps could have been made more comparable with each other.

Those are a special surprise for people daring enough to try them! They're worth the lvls.

Judging from the power the new shifter wields, im sure they are worth the levels. Well for example...are the powers of auras dependent on cha or what? Are there any saves involved - which saves, how are the DC's calculated. Are they actual auras or pulse effects? I thought amia was try to reduce the number of old style auras anyway? How many uses does one get if they are pulses?

How does one go about making these new traps?

Just a bit more meat man! :wink:

My rog 19/ftr 6/hs 5 master trapper/security chef-to-be will be very excited about these changes.

Ulir wrote:

My rog 19/ftr 6/hs 5 master trapper/security chef-to-be will be very excited about these changes.

That's Missus!

That's probably a lot of rebuilds and new characters!

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

That's probably a lot of rebuilds and new characters!

Yeah, all two of those PDKs will sure need rebuilds!

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Just a bit more meat man!

Knight Commander auras are affected by Charisma, but not to the extent a class not reliant on Charisma can't use the auras and still find a lot of use in them.

Other than that, the mystery remains until the hak release!

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Yeah, all two of those PDKs will sure need rebuilds!

That's not fair. Counting my attempts, and all those I've run into, there's at least four.

Simply excellent on all accounts. I've wanted Champion of Torm to be Divine Champion for years, and changing Harper Scout needed to be done since it was released{In my opinion). Knight Commander looks epic, Already have great ideas on seeing these new changes.

maglorine wrote:

Ulir wrote:

My rog 19/ftr 6/hs 5 master trapper/security chef-to-be will be very excited about these changes.

That's Missus!

?

Thinking about a Rogue/Knight commander/Blackguard or Rogue/Blackguard/Champion. For a usual build rogue/fighter/blackguard, the both change mentioned above would result in less feats, right ?

alamut wrote:

Thinking about a Rogue/Knight commander/Blackguard or Rogue/Blackguard/Champion. For a usual build rogue/fighter/blackguard, the both change mentioned above would result in less feats, right ?

For R/BG/KC, the feat loss is staggering, not simply from losing a few feats from lack of fighter levels, but also needing Toughness and Skill Focus: Discipline. You're losing four feats right there. R/BG/C is only losing 2 feats, which isn't nearly as bad.

Expect to rethink things a lot in build terms for R/BG/KC - 10/16/4 isn't going to really work.

I'll chime in with QPR, it's odd to me that a Harper will be a better ranger class than the ranger class. Then again, I don't build and nearly pure ranger still feels more at a disadvantage for the average player of one without having to cross class to make up for what the ranger class lacks. Maybe in the hands of the build savvy it works well, for the not so savvy or just average, it comes out as only 'pretty okay'.

Is there nothing in the works for Ranger class at all so it stops being a 'take it for the feats' side class?

To second conalah, after looking at this list of classes few days ago I asked her today weather she will rebuild one of the characters, as the Master Scout is an obvious choice for someone who spends a lot of time searching the land and observing (aka Ranger type).

So if its up for discussion, even though I am not playing a ranger, I'd still vote that the rangers get at least speed in wilderness areas, but on a very high level. Say lvl 20-25 ranger gets that speed, or some other awesome survival/outdoors ability. That way we would avoid taking ranger levels for powerbuild.

Exactly how much is the speed boost anyway - higher than barb movement?

1 Ranger is as good (to the right build) as 1 Tumble-Dump. Granting Rangers a speed boost at high levels won't change that.

The Ranger class is not at all a side class. The Ranger class is pretty damn deadly, actually. The Harper Scout is no longer the Harper Scout, it's the Master Scout. It has 100% nothing to do with Harpers anymore.

colanah wrote:

I'll chime in with QPR, it's odd to me that a Harper will be a better ranger class than the ranger class.

You don't even know what exactly Master Scout is gaining yet, so this discussion is a bit of a waste of time right now. Ranger and Master Scout represent two different halves of being an outdoors-man. Ranger is not a better Master Scout than the Master Scout, nor is Master Scout is a better Ranger than a Ranger.

Gobo-kobo wrote:

So if its up for discussion, even though I am not playing a ranger, I'd still vote that the rangers get at least speed in wilderness areas, but on a very high level.

It's not up for discussion, at least not here. This topic is to give players a taster of what's in the hak update. Not to discussion balance changes on other classes.

Aye. Master Scout is to your Ranger what Gwaeron Windstrom is to your Mielikki!

Typical for you to do a comparison with hippie gods...

I was thinking about making a rogue/ms or ranger/ms and would like to start leveling it but I doubt I'll be able to take harper levels before the hak comes in (because I hope it's soon). Should I take the requirements listed or are they likely to change? This makes me think they might...

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Xenos wrote:

Now i totally want to make an Assassin Master Scout.. or something.

Kinda off that Master Scout is a trap type class, but it has no requirement of Craft Trap, Set Trap, or Disable Trap. But rather that it needs "Discipline 8 Ranks". Feels like Discipline is out of place there.

Rather correct, actually. The Master Scout's original incarnation was quite vastly different to what it is now, and the Discipline rank requirements were never looked at again.

...Or should I take the requirements for harper and request a rebuild? Would I qualify for the free rebuild without actually having any harper levels, just the requirements for it? I don't want to get stuck in the middle.

On the other hand, I could just continue to wait. I'm just so excited! :shock:

Anyone with Harper Scout requirements before the Class updates will be considered having the requirements for Master Scout I believe.

Wait till another DM confirms that though.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

You don't even know what exactly Master Scout is gaining yet, so this discussion is a bit of a waste of time right now. Ranger and Master Scout represent two different halves of being an outdoors-man. Ranger is not a better Master Scout than the Master Scout, nor is Master Scout is a better Ranger than a Ranger.

Well the problem is that every balance class thread gets dully locked. All I'm saying is that Ranger is as powerful outdoors as any other class. Even less.

Someone doesn't understand what "Prestige Class" means.

Quote:

Well the problem is that every balance class thread gets dully locked.

Yeah and for good reason. Take the hint.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Anyone with Harper Scout requirements before the Class updates will be considered having the requirements for Master Scout I believe.

Wait till another DM confirms that though.

Assuming this is so, will this apply to evil PCs who get all the Harper Scout pre-reqs but still can't get the class due to evil alignment pre-req issues?

It would probably save a billion and a half rebuilds if you just took whats listed here as pre-req's since these changes seem fairly past the "beta" portion of their lifespan.

Selvec is wrong (sort of).

IF you have Harper Scout you are entitled to the rebuild

If you have PDK you are entitled to the rebuild.

If you have neither, but were aiming for either class you are entitled to a rebuild.

IF you started the character after this topic was posted you are not entitled to a rebuild.

Evil characters with Harper or PDK pre-reqs aren't entitled to the rebuild. Because thats just innane and puerile, given you know what the pre-reqs are now and could be aiming for the Master or Knight PrC's and saving us a ton of time rebuilding you. IF you've taken Harper or PDK pre-reqs as the evilness and such you are wasting your own time.

Only person who can say I'm wrong is Sune since its ultimately script bitches decision.

I'm so flattered by you, monster bitch.

Mosh pretty much posted my own opinion and saved me the effort of typing it, so huzzah!

Alright, thanks. Just wanted to know where the line was drawn >_>

I will honestly say that I'm super excited about all of these class's. Being as I play the scout class quite often due to well to be honest just liking the class in general. But the Master scout business is wicked awesome. It reminds me of Bauldurs Gate 2 and how much they set up different class's like whats being done here. I will admit this was a great idea for you all to do and hope that your hard work is paid off greatly in the future. Thank you DM's sincerely for giving these class's some sprucing up.

any chance you'll leak some of the bonus feats the master scout can take? I've been trying to figure out a rogue trapper build for it. But it's hard to know what feats to take without the knowledge of the bonus feats.

Seeing as there are all these class changes going on im just gonna throw this out there (probably will also win worst suggestion of the week too lol):

Why are the dwarven defender and arcane archer classes racially locked? They could be opened up to other races.

Hak Class Changes - Your Insider Scoop

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