AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Yes, hopefully a weaker one-handed weapon that uses the same feats. If it works!

IronAngel wrote:

Yes, hopefully a weaker one-handed weapon that uses the same feats. If it works!

Woo!!

I will cross my fingers!

Good luck with the tests, guys!

Just a note that might be usefull... i guess all shortspears should have that little OOC note that says you cant for love of all gods use it as an offhand or dualwielded weapon.

Seriously it would be horrid, and I know someone would do it.

Bjorn wrote:

Just a note that might be usefull... i guess all shortspears should have that little OOC note that says you cant for love of all gods use it as an offhand or dualwielded weapon.

Seriously it would be horrid, and I know someone would do it.

Well.. Ettins do it. >_>

And you can do it with a regular PC IC with MonkeyGrip widget. I actually think the idea of a "twin lancer" is kinda cool.

Dev Disco wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

No can do. It's saying one thing on the toolset, another in game when I test it. It works when I edit the original spear file, but not with the new one...

I must sleep now. So I'll take a better look at it tomorrow.

Update: Mechanics of the Shortspear are all together. It has 1d8 with x2 crit. Requires Martial Weapon to use. The Spear is still 1d8 and x3, and requires simple weapons feat to use. Shortspear uses the spear base model, so choosing spear will get you the same bonuses. However, the discription the shortspear requires a custom tlk file, and I've never done anything with tlk files before, so I'm not sure how to reference the discription from baseitems.2da to the custom tlk.

Any help would be grand with this, not many tutorials on it and I'll admit I'm lost.

Oh and before I submit it to disco I'll do the base +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 weapons in an erf.

I can do .tlk, just gimme the description. I'll see if I can change the rest. No need for the ERF.

Anyway, what should the end stats be? It's all Chinese to me, you know.

Guess what. I can edit the baseitems.2da that I use from my spear hak to reduce the crit range of weapons also, basically any stat on a base weapon I can change. It will change existing ones to I believe. Possible solution to rapier, scim and kurki, maybe.

Anyway, this is what needs to be on the tlk

Code:

2.Shortspear
3.Another of history's most basic weapons, the shortspear is nevertheless a formidable weapon. Little more that a simple shaft topped with a sharpened head, it is the staple of many a militia, typically wielded one-handed alongside a shield.
4.Base Damage: 1d8
Base Critical Threat: x2 
Base Damage Type: Piercing
Weapon Size: Medium
Feats Required: Martial

Thats whats in the .tlk that came with the file, along with the edited discription, and the lines it's on in the TLK. I've already edited the area's as you can see. I guess it's also the stats as well. The line it's on in the 'baseitems.2da" is 113. I'll PM it to you as well.

Duel wielding spears will be possible with this. But I can change it easily enough so it's simply not equiptable in the offhand. Like whips. I can also make whips duel weild if you like while I'm at it.

So mark up a list before I ship it over and I'll make the changes.

And with that, you'll be able to take the weapon feats as well?

Yes, as it's still only using existing resources in NWN. Resources that already have everything else for spear. So if you take spear in weapon focus, it will effect the shortspear. I tested it with weapon focus and spec, worked fine. The only issue is how it appears in the palette, it appears like two Spear base items are avaliable. When one is infact the shortspear and the other is the spear. I'm going to test that to before I send it over, maybe I can edit it and still have no issues.

Edit: I'd rather not edit it as currently it will appear with the baseitem of "spear" in the wee stats thing. This will stop newcomers from getting confused about the weapon focus feats and such.

Awesome.

Arggghhhhh! Crap! It didn't work!
I tested it last night, stupid mistake, I was way way to tired. Didn't notice the damage modifier wasn't going up for weapon spec....feck.

So as it stands, ignore everything I said. It's not working...I'm gonna go break something now.

Edit: Yep, screw the idea. Scrap it. I noticed another bug just now. Taking martial weapon doesn't let you focus on spears. You need simple and martial. Which makes a funny round about sense, but isn't viable.

So forget it completely and scrap the entire idea. It simply won't work. Not unless I edit the feat 2da's, and the class specfic 2da's for every class, and even then I can't be 100% sure it will work. Hell I don't even know every class specfic feat. I imagine spells work fine though.

The only way I see this working is by editing the original spear. Otherwise I can't see it happening. Sorry folks. Got peoples hopes up and let them down, hate that feeling...I'm going to keep pushing at this as a personal project, but it may not even make it to amia given how much will need to be edited and changed.

However, in a bit more joyful new's it looks like you might be able to completely remove certain items from the dev crit menu. Don't get your hopes up though, thats just a guess.

Edit Edit: Did even more research, found someone who was trying to attempt the same thing as me. As far as it goes, apperently its completely impossible to correctly implement new weapons into NWN. You can only edit the old ones. All the core feat mechanics are located inside the locked area of NWN. Meaning it can't be edited and added to. The only way it can be done is by scripting similar effects, and even that can only mimmick some of the feats, not all of them.

Which leads me to the conclusion that this is simply an impossible pipe dream unless the original item is edited. Sorry guys, I tried my best.

How about we turn trident into onehander then? It has 1d8 x2 and requires martal proficiency, we could add few spear heads to it perhaps?

(giving ideas here)

The spear, in Chinese culture, was the master of all weapons. In the right hands, the (long) spear was/is the most deadliest weapon around. I'm ashamed to admit it, but the spear, as depicted by NWN sucks big time. Its a weapon that has reach, has enormous force, can strike most vital points and can also be used as a bludgeoning weapon (the other end), can trip people up, can keep opponents at a distance.

You can even star in B grade kung-fu movies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uoUgQG2 ... re=related

What's not to like? haha!

Bjorn wrote:

How about we turn trident into onehander then? It has 1d8 x2 and requires martal proficiency, we could add few spear heads to it perhaps?

(giving ideas here)

I actually considered this. Thought it was a good idea. Didn't bring it up however as I figured the same complaints about it already being used may be brang up. Still, Tridents are generally used with another weapon, sheild or netting. So it makes sense.

I can do that easily enough, make the changes to the 2da for the stats, and disco can add the textures probably. Though he can probably do it all on his own. I imagine very little of what I have learnt in the last few days about modding NWN is any surprise to any of the Dev's, or not able to be done by them.

You can't focus in the trident, either. I reckon it would be a safe bet for a one-hander, yes. Make it Martial, so it shouldn't need balancing?

IronAngel wrote:

You can't focus in the trident, either. I reckon it would be a safe bet for a one-hander, yes. Make it Martial, so it shouldn't need balancing?

Yes you can. The enteries in the feat.2da are present. It was made focusable in 1.69 I believe. Um, not sure what you mean about Martial, was that for the trident? It already only requires martial to use.

Oh. That's new. And I see it's been made a Martial weapon too. According to NWNWiki, Weapon Focus can be taken but doesn't work.

It's balanced as a one-hander, just make it so. It's x2 instead of x3, which I forgot.

IronAngel wrote:

Oh. That's new. And I see it's been made a Martial weapon too. According to NWNWiki, Weapon Focus can be taken but doesn't work.

It's balanced as a one-hander, just make it so. It's x2 instead of x3, which I forgot.

Weapon Focus doesn't work. Can't fix it due to the issue being in the same black box that stops me from creating a seperate shortspear.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mdnztnmjzqr/baseitems.2da
This is the 2DA that makes tridents one handed, with no duel weild. If you want anything else, give me a yell. I can edit any stats/size/whatever for the weapons. You'll need to toss an entry in the TLK to replace the stats area's, which is the damage down to the base item. Chuck the number of the line into this coloumn "BaseItemStatRef" of the 2da. Disco should know what I'm talking about if nobody else does.

Code:

weight (lb): 5
cost (gp): 2
damage: 1d8
criticals: x2
damage type: piercing
size:    large
proficiency: martial

You'll need to grab some spear textures and toss them in the trident thing like the other textures.

I'm very unsatisfied with it as Tridents weapon focus is broken, but eh. Guess you could give tridents a +1 AB if it's that concerning. Give me a yell if you want me to put the TLK lines in myself, or edit anything else for the HAK.

I'm not an expert at scripting, but could you not make a script that detects whether you have the trident weapon focus then any time you equip a trident, increase your AB by 1?

Or make it so you get the necessary ab on a tri-spear when you have a focus in spear. :idea:

Since I have yet to find a person who uses a trident for any serious application, and since I'm hoping to get my hands on a short spear so my small-size creatures can use one, I am wholly in support of making tridents into one handers with some spear tip models added in.

Now if only we could get around that pesky Weapon Focus issue, we'd be set. I imagine scripts could be utilized to apply appropriate AB for those wielding a trident with the feat, but the exact way of doing that is beyond my understanding. I'm sure scripter or a member of the dev team could provide some insight on that.

jafman30 wrote:

Or make it so you get the necessary ab on a tri-spear when you have a focus in spear. :idea:

Not possible. Involves editing an area of NWN that is blocked off to the general public. Go bitch to Bioware about it. Maybe if enough people bitch they will let us in to fix their problems.

FinalSoul has the right idea, a script shouldn't be to hard for that one feat. But you'd have to convince a dev to do it, their workload is probably rather large at the moment, as I have no experience in scripting for NWN.

Is one AB from focus really that important?

Bjorn wrote:

Is one AB from focus really that important?

Otherwise it's a wasted feat.

How about you dont take one on trident/spear simply? I mean, its game mechanic's fault. I doubt there would be huge amount of trident weaponmasters.

I would just like to be able to use a spear with a hin, regardless of its stats

Anyway, I find it a bit hard to follow all of this.

My suggestion is to change as little as possible when it comes to feats and requirements, and make the spear act as (the originally intended) shortspear. So...

damage: 1d6
criticals: x3
damage type: piercing
size: medium
proficiency: simple
only equippable in main hand.

This makes it a nice alternative to the morningstar. Less base damage, higher crits.

That's what I wanted to do in the beginning Disco. I only went on this little round about trip of 2da editing because people kept telling me it wasn't gonna happen. Something about certain people using the spear 2 handed for a reason, like druid using two handed with the 1.5 multiplier because they need to take yet another feat to get a sheild.

I'm with you though. Just change the bloody spear already.

Done.

Last edited by IronAngel on Fri, Jan 08 2010, 15:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.

So we're getting rid of the only half-decent simple two-hander? Even if it's already possible to one-hand it with Monkey Grip? Hrmh. There are plenty of one-handed simple weapon, but the only other two-hander is the 1d6 x2 quarterstaff.

Could've just done it to the Trident, but oh well.

You didn't add the bastard sword and katana HAK, by the way? It was established in this thread as not working, despite originally being told otherwise.

I would have preferred no change, myself. Now we need to entirely rebalance spears because they are currently in the game on the baiss of being two handed longspears.

I can turn it back, no problem. It's a matter of changing a few numbers. It does look a lot better with the shield, though.

Is it much more difficult to change the Trident stats instead, and just add one spear model to it?

Seems a bit of a waste to get rid of the only viable Simple two-hander, especially since we already have a widget that lets you one-hand the spear.

Spear and shield? Hell yeah!
Sparta!

IronAngel wrote:

Is it much more difficult to change the Trident stats instead, and just add one spear model to it?

Seems a bit of a waste to get rid of the only viable Simple two-hander, especially since we already have a widget that lets you one-hand the spear.

Quite possible. Does Trident have the full set of feats associated with it now?

Yes, though Weapon Focus doesn't work. A minor inconvenience, I suppose. Others should work fine, reportedly.

Well, you can take it, that's for sure?

So, to summarise:

1. I add spear models to trident

2. I change the trident stats to this:

damage: 1d6
criticals: x3
damage type: piercing
size: medium
proficiency: simple
only equippable in main hand.

Correct?

Yes. (Or keep it 1d8x2 as it is now, whatever.)

And yes, you can take the feats for sure.

1d8 with x2 crit mod is probably much more appropriate for a simple weapon, yes.

would give a reasonable alternative to the morningstar at 1d8 x2. As it stands, that's really the best 1 handed simple weapon.

Yups, I agree with the Trident assessment.

Too bad Weapon Focus will not work.

I will, indeed, have to save DCs for the Monkey Grip widget!

But good to know you found a way to fix it, even if people cannot become "masters" in that weapon!

That can be fixed with an onentry or onequip script easy enough I believe.

BlackDahlya wrote:

I will, indeed, have to save DCs for the Monkey Grip widget!

that thing really exists?

Yes. One of my PCs has it. Is actully the reason it exists.

I like the direction this topic is headed. Turning the unused Trident into something that will at least see -some- use is a great step forward. I look forward to seeing a one handed trident in the near future, whatever form it may take.

Split: Spears and haks

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