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I am bringing a question to the playerbase here. I would have brought it up with the DM Team first but I anticipated they would have a lot of question about "what will the playerbase think? Will they feel put upon? Bothered by the amount of time things might take? Do they feel it would be worh the effort and are they that starved for our attention?"

Anyway, ever since I have been reading through requests made in the Requests Forum (years now), I have always struggled with our expectations for you players to provide adequate RP. Some of you have zounds of RP that has happened IG to support the request. The shier violets amongst you, or ones who just have very specialized requests, are put into what I feel is a very awkward position in having to fabricate or make up how you got that magical sword, how you learned that spell to turn a princess into a giant toad and force a rival to fall in love with the toad, or how you performed that dark ritual to graft a fiendish penis over your normal penis.

Most of you do your best when put into this situation, but it always reads a little flat to me. Even when it is good. I see a lot of wasted potential there, because as DMs we could be manufacturing neat and interactive ways for you to have a shot at earning that item!

What I would like to see more of (in my ideal world) is you making requests for an item, its stats and benefits, but keeping mum about the RP. As in, "It hasn't happened yet. Was hoping for a DM to give me the opportunity!"

Although the scheduling was something of a nightmare for Dark Immolation (he waited far too long for a request he made), I finally did do a quest to have him find something he had been wanting. Success was not guaranteed, but between he and Sally Gubbins they brained their way through it...and I think they were well rewarded. DI seems to have taken the ideas that happened in that little event and run with them.

It all just seems like an opportunity gone to waste to me, to have you have to dream up some justification for why you have what you have when we can provide you the fun, the challenge, and hopefully the satisfaction of feeling you actually earned it.

Of course, this introduces some problems.

What if you fail? What then? Do you just not the get the request?
What if you succeed? Would there be a reduction in the DC cost for going through the adventure?
What if it never comes to pass or scheduling can never work out? Should this just be "optional", rather than the rule for everyone?

Personally I lean towards "optional" as an answer to the third query, which makes it possible to answer "yes" to the first (it was optional, you chose to risk it!) and a "possibly" to the second query.

But that's just me.

What do you think?

I both love this idea and think that it should be optional, because not everybody has the time/our DMs don't have time for everybody. That being said, I'm patient and I agree that making your own RP is balls. I prefer to be given something to work with rather than coming up things myself (that may be shot down).

I personally think this to be a great idea. Writing long stories is fine, but actually living these stories is exceptionnally more fulfilling, and then you'd feel like your character deserves something, more than your mellow words to the dm deserved that reskin.

I love the idea. It's, at least, how I'd rather go about a request. I was lucky enough in the past that Transcendental Templar took the time to run such a quest for one of my characters and it was one of the best experiences I've had on the server thus far.

I think it's better left up to the player if they'd want to do it this way or not, though. So, in short, just as you said Yoss: Optional, yes (there should always be the chance of failure, winning all the time and knowing it is just... ehh) and maybe? While it would be nice to have a small decrease in DC price... it might not be fair. I mean... you get a quest all to yourself, an awesome item/spell/feat/penis extension and it costs less than it would have if you just requested it on the forum? Seems a bit much to me.

If people go with "optional" then the best way to have that would be to make it part of your opening request. As in, "This is what I want, and my preference is for a DM to provide the roleplay opportunity."

Which then leads to the other questions and concerns I brought up.

I think if you fail you should get more DCs, like an extra one or something, and if you succeed you "get" to spend them. The "cost reduction" would be any DCs you earn doing the roleplay towards the request.

I personally like the idea of the DM's being more involved with obtaining requested items, out side of reading the RP behind a request and approving/disapproving.

The problem I see is as you mention yourself, the scheduling and everything. I don't know about other players but I myself wouldn't want to take the DM's attention from other things, though I haven't ever requested anything that I've set up pre-justification RP reasons for, or even a request that is to get the ball rolling and later obtain said item through events later on, with or without a DM setting up the event for it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the DM's attention for such a thing per se, but I was under the impression that DM's may (or may not) have to do a lot of work already, what with rebuild requests, special races, item requests, current DM events running, requests for NPC interaction and anything else I may not have mentioned. But the main thing may just be the timing/schedules and stuff, quite often even if you find a good time to do something I've seen numerous times that something comes up and things have to be set to a later date.

And thankfully my recent inflicted curse of writing lengthy posts is having a rest, it seems.

I don't really have anything more to add to all this. I like the idea, a lot.

In truth I love the idea and I agree with Yoss about alot of it.

That being said I would never ask a DM to do a event for me to get a premade item from a DC request, one of the parts I loved about events was I had no idea what I might get, I still have a very neat IC item I got from a DM event its a leg from a wolf I encountered in Amia forest back when I was its undead guardian

Also I dislike the idea of DMs doing this because (please dont kill me for bring this up) look at the Khem event..... still not done and from the looks of it all the PCs quit/ moved on, Caraighs taint is still the same and it started befor the Khem event and gone though.. what 3+ diffrent DMs allready and if you count Wiltun DMs as part of Caraigh 5 past DMs.

So as much as I love the idea I would rather DMs stick to doing thier events, and looking after stuff that needs to get done then custom crafting a ton of mini events for request forum stuff and nothing geting done that should have been.

I do like the idea myself, actually.

It'd give a lot more flavour and process to things like research for new spells or creation of new and unique items. ^.^;

And the potential for failure and or disaster.. and for twists and turns in the process to make it all the more satisfying.

What if it never comes to pass or scheduling can never work out? Should this just be "optional", rather than the rule for everyone?

(players and DMs alike)

What if you fail? What then? Do you just not the get the request?

(in fact, just about nothing is)

What if you succeed? Would there be a reduction in the DC cost for going through the adventure?

(or not)

Grymia wrote:

I do like the idea myself, actually.

It'd give a lot more flavour and process to things like research for new spells or creation of new and unique items. ^.^;

And the potential for failure and or disaster.. and for twists and turns in the process to make it all the more satisfying.

I find myself agreeing and it brought me to the thought you may even get something else good out of it besides the good RP experience and maybe some DCs for your effort put into it, if you fail to get what you planned for you may get something else if you're lucky, depending on events and what the DM thinks, of course.

I'd definitely prefer something like this, if I actually ever managed to save up my DCs and not use them for leveling. I know, I'm addicted to shooting dreamcoin.

Letum has pretty much summed up my own thoughts on the matter. From a player perspective, I've loved the few interactions I've had with DMs for some of Ranallas' research. Sure I'm fine with doing the RP myself / with other players, and even providing some potential pitfalls for my own character through the course of that RP, but it's always better if the truly unexpected can happen.

From a DM perspective, I love working with people on their requests, and have already done this on a few occasions with players. I've found that it's quite rewarding for not only the player, but for myself as well.

Uncertainty can be the most exciting thing about RP.

I agree. I think this is a potential amazing thing. I admit I dreaded it when I wanted to make a request. Mainly because I hated having to go around player to player only to "talk" about possible things I could do IC, and then having to type off something I did IG idly by myself for twenty minutes. I hated that sort of RP. Now this can give a very personal experience,, and give your character a oportunity to not only bloom in such a amazing positive way, but introduce some awesome flaws. This I think can become very enriching for the server and give players the opportunity to feel involved.
I also look back to one of your recent posts, Yoss. About the people making many Alts. This could be a potential solution. Many people finding they have no further use for the characters after lvl 30, but this gives a choice to players who want to make a request for solo events; will give a more detailed story and oportunity for creativity not only for DMs but for players as well.

I like this from both perspectives.

As a player, I remember when I used to feel like the server was stagnant, or it was the same thing happening and I just had to run to find DM attention. Of course, I grew out of this, but I still remember the feeling.

So things like this will help bring our artwork world to life, because the color is being begged by the players.

As a DM, I also really like this. There are times when I don't have any overarching plots to manage. There are times when I don't have any ideas to start these overarching plots. So, in theory, I'd happily accept requests, as they'd both make me actively working toward server movement, and inspired for future events. And we've got a great team to make it work. Obviously, some of the DM's are more involved in current plots than others, but we'd take care of that top-side.

My take on this?

A request quest is going to depend on a lot of factors.

A big one is what the request is for. In fact, I know of some request quests done before. I haven't had one myself, so maybe I'm not the best to comment about this, but I know some fallen clerics have had to get an atonement quest before they could be unfallen, or change dieties, or want to undo a BG pact and rebuild out of it.
To go into the types of requests that would or would not warrant a request quest:

Rebuilds: Generally would not, I think, because that's a change of personal focus rather than an external change, in most situations. Obviously, something like getting out of BG, RDD, PM, or changing faiths for a cleric. Even rebuilding to a class might warrant one, if a character wants to go from rogue to assassin, or gain monk or paladin levels out of a fighter/WM. Still, I would think small changes like a wizard/fighter that shuffles 2 levels of fighter to wizard would not warrant a quest.

Summon Reskins: Probably. It involves getting a nonstandard summon. How you get said summon might involve a quest. Now, for simple things, like building a golem, it may require some DM interaction for the building but forum, screenshot, as well as some player collaberation might be able to suffice for things like *hand-sculpts the iron golem for fourteen days*. I would say neccecity of interaction would depend on how exotic the summon is. If it's rather regular, probably not. If it's exotic, well, it would depend on what it is.

Job Log Changes: Very likely not. Again, this is more a change of internal focus, so epic quests to the edges of the world shouldn't be required. I don't think a DM quest would be applicable save very strange situations.

Item: Case by case, but probably screenshot/forum RP should suffice for this. If it's something very exotic, like trying to acquire a weapon that's an extension of one's will and not a physical item, then that would be quest territory. For making custom pies, not so much.

Custom Spell: This one is far more likely. It involves acquiring a spell that's not in a standard spellbook. Now, it might not, say, hours of a wizard researching could develop a new spell, though it could involve collaberation with other wizards. Learning a new spell from another wizard directly could also do this. A sorcerer would likely not require a request quest, since their magic is within and just happens. It would probably be similar with a bard but I could see a quest applying. For a druid or cleric it could be far more likely as they might get some divine mission to get that unique favor from their patron.
Still, I could see where this could apply for a wizard, if they want to seek out an exotic spell rather than do all the work themselves. Or if they decide they need some help for it... The same could apply for a bard too.

Atonement Request: Definitely. For changing faiths, it might not apply. But if a fallen cleric/paladin wants to re-acquire their divine blessing, then they'd need one for sure. Preferably revolving around what made them fall in the first place.

Area Changes: Definitely. Such undertakings, especially in areas with NPCs, hostile or nonhostile, should require in game DM interaction.

I think the universal answer is "Case by case basis".

As for:

Quote:

Of course, this introduces some problems.

What if you fail? What then? Do you just not the get the request?
What if you succeed? Would there be a reduction in the DC cost for going through the adventure?
What if it never comes to pass or scheduling can never work out? Should this just be "optional", rather than the rule for everyone?

1: If you fail, well, it would depend on how the failure was, but I'd say off hand the request would not be granted. Now, they could get DCs for good RP, (Losing can be fun

), they may just not get what they seek, or they could have lasting consequences happen to them. Naturally I don't think there should be a DC cost here so long as the RP was good.
2: A DM could give DCs to everyone involved in the quest for good RP (if such is applicable). This would be a boon to others involved in the RP that aren't specifically the requester. But I think that a DC cost should still apply, though some of the cost could be rescinded by DCs given for good RP. No one said a Request Quest had to be easy and can be simply done in one session.
3: If scheduling is an issue, swap DMs with one who can accomodate. If this somehow isn't possible, then I'd reccommend a forum RP quest. Could be conducted by PMs, or done publicly if there are multiple players participating. If it's still a problem, then the old system, I think, would suffice.

I think that about sums up my thoughts on the matter, but I'll post further if I think of anything else, or rethink things.

Just from my own experience, this is actually how the fey plot with Silent came into view that involves a lot of individuals. I didn't post, publicly, my request for Kay's Heartwarder ascension spell, because I wanted to work on the RP towards it. I took it to a DM who was listed to be involved in fey plots, and Silent was like "Heck yeah, we'll do this." I had no idea what was going to happen. I had no idea how it was going to end. I still don't even know if she's going to get it, but it really brings the character to life. This plot has change mine, and a lot of other players PCs over the course, and I absolutely love that. I love that Silent was willing to take the time, focus on a my characters quest, but also involve others into it. He's even succeeded in keeping us on our toes!

If this is an item, spell, etc that is not quite ready and you want to give it time to progress, I'd totally be two thumbs up for this. I've found it a fantastic alternative, then just doing boring research in books, and posting screenshots of a ritual.

I agree with Glim here, uncertainty has definitely been some of the most exciting RP I've had.

I like the idea. One of the things that I enjoy about PnP games (at least the way my game group plays them; I recognize that this isn't universal) is the sense that each player is individually pursuing his or her own individual goals. That does happen on Amia, but generally it happens if not off-screen, then at least out of view of the player base at large, since that sort of RP tends to involve only a character's close friends, with maybe a specialist or two brought in to troubleshoot specific problems. What I like about Yoss's idea is the potential for completely unanticipated players to be dragged into each others' individual plots in interesting and unexpected ways by the presiding DM.

I love the idea, the chances I could fail would be quite a rush, lol. Tormak ran the DreamScar event for me and I loved it. So I'm a thumbs up.

corypx wrote:

In truth I love the idea and I agree with Yoss about alot of it.

That being said I would never ask a DM to do a event for me to get a premade item from a DC request, one of the parts I loved about events was I had no idea what I might get, I still have a very neat IC item I got from a DM event its a leg from a wolf I encountered in Amia forest back when I was its undead guardian

Also I dislike the idea of DMs doing this because (please dont kill me for bring this up) look at the Khem event..... still not done and from the looks of it all the PCs quit/ moved on, Caraighs taint is still the same and it started befor the Khem event and gone though.. what 3+ diffrent DMs allready and if you count Wiltun DMs as part of Caraigh 5 past DMs.

So as much as I love the idea I would rather DMs stick to doing thier events, and looking after stuff that needs to get done then custom crafting a ton of mini events for request forum stuff and nothing geting done that should have been.

STAY OUT OF MY MIND YOU!!!! I more or less agree with all of this. I love the idea but I think the staff seems to have a hard enough time finding the time (or interest) to finish plots and events as is without adding heapings of item request stuff on them.

DolphinRacer wrote:

corypx wrote:

In truth I love the idea and I agree with Yoss about alot of it.

That being said I would never ask a DM to do a event for me to get a premade item from a DC request, one of the parts I loved about events was I had no idea what I might get, I still have a very neat IC item I got from a DM event its a leg from a wolf I encountered in Amia forest back when I was its undead guardian

Also I dislike the idea of DMs doing this because (please dont kill me for bring this up) look at the Khem event..... still not done and from the looks of it all the PCs quit/ moved on, Caraighs taint is still the same and it started befor the Khem event and gone though.. what 3+ diffrent DMs allready and if you count Wiltun DMs as part of Caraigh 5 past DMs.

So as much as I love the idea I would rather DMs stick to doing thier events, and looking after stuff that needs to get done then custom crafting a ton of mini events for request forum stuff and nothing geting done that should have been.

STAY OUT OF MY MIND YOU!!!! I more or less agree with all of this. I love the idea but I think the staff seems to have a hard enough time finding the time (or interest) to finish plots and events as is without adding heapings of item request stuff on them.

Where I do agree, to a point, but thinking on it, an event for such a thing usually geared toward a single player would in theory take up much less time than full on DM events that affect the whole of Amia to some point as opposed to just the character making the request and maybe getting an item out of it. So I don't think they would necessarily drag on as long as say... The Khem event a few years back with the Undead and Zanthun(?) where that flying Demon attacked us all and that undead creature had hit my Salandran with its Scythe, making him go into an unexplainable blind rage because of some property on the weapon, causing him to attack whoever was nearest, luckily he couldn't hit for poop and never had weapons at hand, he did suffer a punch in the face in return though and was left confused because he remembered the whole thing and just thought it was a good idea at the time with no way of justifying his actions. :lol:

Note to self:
Stop using Tablet device to reply on forums, it appears to be showing signs of being senile and replacing perfectly legitimate words with other words in their place that make 0 sense to what I'm typing and re-arranging my post order... :roll:

Anubis wrote:

The Khem event a few years back with the Undead and Zanthun(?)

HAHAHAHA,been so long you forgot your in the middle of laying siege to Khem and Mulhorand?

ok so you might find this funny given your name... the Khem event in question is "The Red Hand Prophecy" and its in the middle of a war with.....Anubis!

I am apart of a great deal many things, it can be easy to forget some of the silly wars I am apart of. It's not easy being an Egyptian God, you know? And the best one, at that! :lol:

There are several problems with your argument. First of all, yes technically a event for a single player would be less effort than a plot, but if you have twenty individual players to see to AND are trying to run a large plot, that doesn't work so well.

Second its a single player, and that kind of screws over the rest of the world that doesn't have the DCs to make requests because, for instance, the DMs are too busy seeing to single players to be able to monitor good RP, instead of seeing to large events where they can give out DC tokens to good participants, or hell sitting and spying like the voyeurs they all are.

There would have to be some high standards from our DMs when it comes to approving item requests. But, you know, the DMs are no schmucks. It's simple really. The approval of the 'optional' item attainment goes both ways: the more creative or interesting the item request is, the more likely it will be 'picked up' by a DM. Less interesting, 'mechanical' items, aren't going to get a lot of attention within reason.

I like it Yoss. It generates storytelling, and acts as a filter to weed out the PvP bullies who just want a bigger stick to hit Samrael with for her lunch money.

Oh, it wasn't a counter argument, really. I was just putting forward an observation that was sparked from what you and Cory said.

I fully understand it takes time away from other players and is focused on just one as opposed to large plots where a lot more are involved and all get rewarded, whether it be RP they experience throughout, DC's or general character development but in mass.

In my first post I explained why I've never requested something like this and I stand by that reasoning too.

I wasn't suggesting they should spend more time on single players and not larger groups of players, just pointing out what I had noticed/realised. Besides, I'm sure it's more worthwhile for DM's, all involved and the state of Amia in a way that's it's more rewarding to be apart of as a whole.

Person A gets DCs because he and his pals are involved in a lot of events, for one reason or another=>Person A requests an item with the optional personal DM touch on it=>Person A gets even more attention, if not necessarily DCs, from the staff.

Meanwhile persons B-Z are left out more or less in cold due to the fact that bad luck/conflicting schedules/ignorance/newness, means they are not involved in enough events to get DCs and get items.

Net Result: Stereotype, real or not, of cliques and DMs only hitting up their friends gets perpetuated further.

Not enough DMs even reply on request forums.

Not enough DMs not enough time.

Fix this and I would think it amazing. As someone who has tried this before I can say it was more rewarding to "earnitens in game."

I 100% love this and support this idea Yoss. Especially those who are not these epic writers who feel the pressure to write a great novel in order to do a request and get it approved. I like the purer sense of adventure and goals similar to a PnP game in the plot sense. Yes I am speaking about myself in this post.

So many of the characters I come across in role-play seem to always have some goal that definately requires DM intervention for, and I almost want to let them know OOC that it's never gonna happen....but now maybe it can happen for them.

I've always liked personal player quests.

And as long as they are within reason (no I won't let you kill Mephistopheles single-handedly to get his index-fingernail), I am very much available to help with such requests and already have done so in my so far short DM career!

To respond to the concern about cliques and favoritism:

I think the opposite, actually: if done well, this sort of thing will lead to cliques being made less prominent, not more. If I concede contol of all direction of my personal plotline to a DM, I can't very well limit my interactions to my pre-existing circle of friends, can I? A DM has the power to force together characters who wouldn't otherwise have any reason to interact.

Much prefer individual plots involving eggs, books and getting smacked in the face, because your DM likes how you RP and thinks that some sort of Apotheosis is relevant to your Flaming Sorceror.

Quote:

Not enough DMs even reply on request forums.

Not enough DMs not enough time.

Fix this and I would think it amazing. As someone who has tried this before I can say it was more rewarding to "earnitens in game."

I agree and think its a great idea in general. But citing pigeon above, I feel its a bit idealistic. I think when a request is submitted. There must be an option for it to be dm quest given or not. If a dm does decide to take it on, I think there must be commitment from both ends to adhere to a given timeframe and request a date to get this through.

I think that if no dm feels passionate about the request the request can just go through the current way of approval. Ie. via ic reasoning.

It's great when time allows for an opportunity like this, however I don't think it should be a requirement for anything but more something players can ask for and either get told yes or no, that way it's not binding for any DMs to get involved in such things either by saying it's "optional"

I was talking to a dm a few months ago if I could make a completely random request, meaning I pump an amount of DCs into a random dm quest interaction with a random reward upon success. Either way I like it, and on the finer points I agree with Letum.

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

While the idea of DM Event RPing every single PC accomplishment, big or small, might sound good on paper, I honestly doubt it would work in practice: giving the playerbase the right to request all these small events would/could easily lead to a massive overload of quest requests, which in turn would lead to incredibly clogged DM timetables, DM event deflation and possibly even DM burnouts.

And besides, not all players want to spend hours and hours of their free time RPing the smithing process of that DC platemail they requested. At least not IG. Also, the above example would probably lead to skill check/ability check/percentile rolls or something similar, in which case the PC would be at the mercy of NWN's absolutely craptacular RNG (and we all know that the word "craptacular" is a severe understatement here.) Since when have dice rolls equalled quality RP?
One might argue that this is just an assumption. Perhaps so, but it's still a legitimate concern.

However, if Yossarin was holding me at gunpoint and demanding me to choose between non-optional or optional, I'd probably go with the latter. :lol:

Demon Yoss is lurking

I don't see where the idea that the DMs would suddenly be inundated with requests comes from. Players can already do that. Personal plots, some of them having been directly related to requests have been run in the past, because someone asked for it. It already happens, and DMs already deign to do it or not as they have the time or interest. The only thing this really changes is the formality of it; it gives it a name and a convention.

DolphinRacer wrote:

Person A gets DCs because he and his pals are involved in a lot of events, for one reason or another=>Person A requests an item with the optional personal DM touch on it=>Person A gets even more attention, if not necessarily DCs, from the staff.

Meanwhile persons B-Z are left out more or less in cold due to the fact that bad luck/conflicting schedules/ignorance/newness, means they are not involved in enough events to get DCs and get items.

Net Result: Stereotype, real or not, of cliques and DMs only hitting up their friends gets perpetuated further.

If you're telling me this specifically, I'm not entirely sure why, but I realise it could just be a general statement aimed at everyone.

Letum,

I was and have been for a long time under the impression that DM's have enough on their plate with what they have to do already other than player specific quests. I also never found much indication(I can only guess I'm not alone in this), if any at all that they would even be willing to do these quests due to other things like major events (I'm not saying there's no indication, I'm just saying if there was I probably missed it and not only that I've -known- of requests to be made like this and one, maybe two haven't even had so much as a reply, let alone a chance to go through with it. I'm not saying this is still the case, it may not be the same situation now but not only that they're the only such requests I've even seen myself when looking intently through requests that involve what we are discussing.) and it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Now that the idea is clearly being welcomed by the team, no doubt more people will know they can do this, feel encouraged to but there will possibly even be a considerable rise in how many people make such a request and actually go through with it (I'm not saying this is bad but this quite possibly will take a lot of time from DM's). The only real thing keeping this reduced is the fact almost every request requires DC payments, just look at when the free rebuilds were made available, the flood gates opened and it came to a point where they just completely axed the whole thing in general and made it cost DC's for full/partial rebuilds again but made selfers free, with few and strict exceptions.

I'm as much for it as I am against it, though, I'm on the fence, really. I was pointing out what I thought to be some consequences behind it so it may be considered more carefully by anyone willing to read what I said.

I honestly think this sorta thing would be better than large-scale events. Many of the large-scale events just attract a horde of pcs who typically end up doing nothing exciting, and it seems it's only for the DC and not for the enjoyment of the event. I'm speaking from my experience, and I know there are exceptions.

Large scale events are -awesome,- but at times there may be too many of them. I wouldn't know if that's been the case recently of course, but if that's the case then I understand why some of you worry.

1 Massive scale event, along with a few big scale events (like the one that appears to be going on in Tarkuul these days), would leave plenty of room for a number of smaller, more personal events. And hells, even plentier of time for little surprise pop-ups in the midst of people's grinding. Those are my personal favorites, and ones I hope to see many more of. With the number of DMs I've been seeing on this last week, I'm encouraged to believe that good things will come to those who wait.

There is a definate need for large scale events. Things like the Barak Runedar event was awesome in the fact that we had time let it create meaningful RP. It wasn't just going to bash a horde of monsters, in fact a large portion of it was downtime.

That said, on the original topic, I like Yoss's suggestion on a personal level. I understand most people want to micromanage their RP, make sure it heads towards a specific locked in goal. And there's nothing wrong with that. Some people like writing stories and that's brilliant.

For me to create RP like that, just feels shallow and empty. I get no satisfaction out of writing things like that or engaging in roleplay when I already know exactly where it's going to go.

It also feels like I'm godmodding the DM's to an extent.

If I make a request about creating an item, and I've already done the RP in game to create said item, I've more or less told the DM's "This is what happened, now lets sort out the properties on this item." It makes me twitch on a fundamental level, especially if other players are involved.

At that point, let us say the item mechanically can't be made for technical reasons, or the item comes out wholly different due to balance concerns. Maybe we forgot some key point of the lore or that blue demon lord tail we used to make it never should have existed. Now you've got to wind back the thread. If it's done in game, other people are likely involved. The attempt is, more or less, public knowledge.

Now we've got to retcon all of that.

Nothing, for me, shatters imersion and the attempt to make these characters as reall as we can then the words "Sorry, none of that happened."

(EDIT: Just because this post will probably piss people off if the intentions are read wrong.
TL/DR version: I'm cool with you all writing these stories, and that's brilliant, I just feel wrong doing it myself and prefer Yoss's suggested way)

Honeydew Snugglepoof wrote:

I was talking to a dm a few months ago if I could make a completely random request, meaning I pump an amount of DCs into a random dm quest interaction with a random reward upon success. Either way I like it, and on the finer points I agree with Letum.

Much as there is much where Snugglepoof and I would headbutt one another on, I think this is something I can agree with as an option too

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

LetumLux wrote:

The only thing this really changes is the formality of it; it gives it a name and a convention.

Which is precisely why it could lead to an event request overflood. When something gets casualified, you always run the risk of making it a bit too casual.

Let me axe the DMs a question: would you people really want to DM-host an event where that one level 5 PC gets that DC requested, slightly different (but still mundane) item? The one that cost 1 DC? Would you want to do it two times? Four times? Ten times? Now, making this optional would likely cut down the amount of times you'd have to do this, but it still wouldn't eliminate the problem entirely.

And now a quote from a fellow poster:

Anubis wrote:

The only real thing keeping this reduced is the fact almost every request requires DC payments, just look at when the free rebuilds were made available, the flood gates opened and it came to a point where they just completely axed the whole thing in general and made it cost DC's for full/partial rebuilds again but made selfers free, with few and strict exceptions.

Surely some of you must understand the point I'm trying to convey here.

Yossarin wrote:

Of course, this introduces some problems.

What if you fail? What then? Do you just not the get the request?
What if you succeed? Would there be a reduction in the DC cost for going through the adventure?
What if it never comes to pass or scheduling can never work out? Should this just be "optional", rather than the rule for everyone?

All here is IMHO.
1: Outcome of failure should adequate, in most cases, to the task and efforts made.
2: DC change depend from situation. The item-hunting "adventure" is not worth a lot, instead of story-wise adventure. (Amia is RP, not grinding or farming place, after all)
3: I prefer to see it as rule, but rules should be flexible and mutable.

In conclusion, I think and I say it, the direction offered by Yossarin is great.

erroch wrote:

It also feels like I'm godmodding the DM's to an extent.

If I make a request about creating an item, and I've already done the RP in game to create said item, I've more or less told the DM's "This is what happened, now lets sort out the properties on this item." It makes me twitch on a fundamental level, especially if other players are involved.

At that point, let us say the item mechanically can't be made for technical reasons, or the item comes out wholly different due to balance concerns. Maybe we forgot some key point of the lore or that blue demon lord tail we used to make it never should have existed. Now you've got to wind back the thread. If it's done in game, other people are likely involved. The attempt is, more or less, public knowledge.

Now we've got to retcon all of that.

That why you DON'T do that. That's why you contact DM(s) before hand and give them heads-up what do you plan to do, and how do you plan to do it.
You can't do all the RP without any kind of DM oversight and then just say "Ok, I did this, so gimme!" I've seen this done often and in good deal of cases it was shot down, for many different reasons.
I'm not saying you need DMs to babysit your efforts all the way, but some communication is definitely necessary, and they can often give hints or point you in certain direction.

You all know (or perhaps some) about the request I've trying to do since then. I've done the RP by myself and making the post later, or making the post first and attaching the RP later and, to the last, consulting a DM first, getting a few informations, making the post and adding the RP later.

I got the same chance of success on those requests. In my experience there was no difference if you do this or that. Perhaps his suggestion may change the the percent of a success on a request, but honestly I doubt. I doubt as well it will save the time you expend on doing a request, creating/directing all the RP for it. But again, I'm based on my past experience.

Remal wrote:

That's why you contact DM(s) before hand and give them heads-up what do you plan to do, and how do you plan to do it.
You can't do all the RP without any kind of DM oversight and then just say "Ok, I did this, so gimme!" I've seen this done often and in good deal of cases it was shot down, for many different reasons.
I'm not saying you need DMs to babysit your efforts all the way, but some communication is definitely necessary, and they can often give hints or point you in certain direction.

That is quite a good summary of my point in a much more concise format.

To answer Yoss's questions since I left them out of my original post in here.

Quote:

What if you fail? What then? Do you just not the get the request?

If you fail, you've gotten a story, that's a win in my book.
There is also always the option to try again in a different fashion. In this case, congratulations instead of just getting an item/request you get a storyline/RP hook AND manybe an item/request later.

While the character may "fail" that's a success in gameplay for me.

Quote:

What if you succeed? Would there be a reduction in the DC cost for going through the adventure?

I really don't think so, the work still needs to be done in the end. Maybe there are some DC's awarded along the way for exelent RP with other players that could serve this purpose, because at that point you've used your request to enhance other's RP. I feel a little self serving suggestiong that given my current request.

Quote:

What if it never comes to pass or scheduling can never work out? Should this just be "optional", rather than the rule for everyone?

I think this needs to be handled on a case by case basis. If the request is for something truely exceptional or game effecting, I think it warrents direct DM involvement. If it's a request for something already used or relatively mundane, not so much.

IE: The ultimate widget of small of the back scraching bliss +6? Yeah, there might be a quest for that.
A widget to spawn a bunch of pillow piles in a prearranged circle with some flowers and a table for evenigns in the Dale? Not so much.

After reading all of the very thoughtful responses, I am left without much to add to the discussion.

You may choose to request a DM's assistance with the roleplay for your request. We will do our best to accommodate. To those of you with concerns about the amount of time and attention we have available and how we spread it: thank you very much for your concern. Although it is, granted, an enlightened self-interest (you benefit from our time), we do appreciate players thinking about our workload. That said, our workload is our workload and we will manage it as necessary. If that involves being honest and saying, "No DM can really help you with this," then that is what we will do. In the past, we have put some players into a situation where they may feel strung along as we try to see if we can put something together; not any longer. If we cannot meet your request, we will let you know in a timely fashion. Just as it is optional for you to request it, it is also optional for us to accept it.

There will be no consideration of cost reduction for success/failure. The best argument was, "Any DCs earned for excellent RP during a DM overseen adventure or attempt are discount enough". That seems to satisfy my sense of fairness.

Since it is optional, failure will be failure. It will mean the request is not accomplished, but you will have the satisfaction of knowing you tried.

I suppose in essence what this thread accomplished was about what I hoped it would accomplish: letting you know this is a possibility, one that may be a great relief to many of you whom I feel have been put on the spot when we ask you to provide roleplay and you have to manufacture something that, while it may be well-written and even organic to your character, lacks that sense of accomplishment and risk, and the entitlement that comes along with having truly earned that request.

Does that wrap up cover just about everything, or did I miss a question or comment that demands a response?

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