AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Last edited by Kjetta on Wed, Feb 18 2009, 9:31 AM, edited 1 time in total.

It is not one incident that has brought this up, so don't feel like this is target directly at you.

I think there is some confusion, or possible disagreement, about the switch of genre that happens when a DM steps in to play the enviroment. When the module handles the enviroment, it's ICly/OOCly fair all the way. You know the risks, you know the possible rewards, you know that you can choose whether you want to rp that you lost a finger or whether you broke your nose etc. You are generally in control of your character, from an IC perspective.

However, when a DM steps in to play the enviroment, a lot of this control is taken from you. This is the point, herein lies the excitement. NPCs might praise you, they might think you are daft, the gods themselves might dismiss you from their ranks of servants.

I beg of you, please, just roll with the punches. And if you need a comforting pillow, know that no matter what we DMs subject your character to, it's never forced PERMA-death, nor anything that can't be remedied by IC actions.

In other words, learn to love DM sadism. It's part of DnD.

Well you Dm's can come across as pretty intimidating sometimes

Anyway seriously speaking, I am suprised that anyone would take umbridge to a DM becoming involved in a scene. I have to say that with perhaps only one excpetion from the months I have exsisted on Amia, I have always had a blast when a DM steps in.

Even if I have sometimes got mangled, crushed or various other things the experience is always fun as you -never- know what is going to happen. Its part of what makes Amia fun and me being so frustrated at not being able to get back in game right now.

But when I can its the DM's that can make all the difference to a session of rp. Yes we might occasionally whine and complain about there being to few... to many... or arent around often enough. But without them it would be a very different place.

SO yes roll with it guys and gals your never going to lose out in the end as long as you sit back relax and rp.

People are actually complaining when a DM runs NPCs??? I mean....really? I beg DMs to interact in this way sometimes (see State of Amia thread)...and....and they whinge and complain when one finally does?

What are they on?!

*blinks silently for a few moments*

I'd love to hear you blink loudly, sound

Anyway, I like to roll with things if it happens. Sometimes a DM can make perm changes to a character however that the player disagree's with. It's happened, and it's happened to me personally actually. I went with it since the change wasn't exactly to huge, but it was still annoying and did effect how much I enjoyed the character.

In some situations however, I purposely make life a little harder. Don't roll with punches if it's not in your characters personality. Not to make a DM's job harder, but not everything will roll smoothly along, espically if what your trying to get someone to do is not in there character, and sometimes, you don't know all the motives of a character.

Quote:

People are actually complaining when a DM runs NPCs??? I mean....really? I beg DMs to interact in this way sometimes (see State of Amia thread)...and....and they whinge and complain when one finally does?

Short answer: Yes. People complain if we step in to do stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJjOvKe3cP4

"Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it."

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I'd love to hear you blink loudly, sound

Actually, it's a very weird sound... I heard it on a friend a day ago.

As for the rest of the topic, I think the more DM run plots the better. My experiance with them so far has been fantastic. Nothing but helpful.
The plots that I've seen have been in good humor, and the one's I hear about from my new friends sounds as if they're all very pleased.

So don't let a few complainers get you down, DM's, you're doing a good job!

Ahem. Roll with the Punches, 101.

Roll with the punches does NOT mean reacting to something IC in a manner unbefitting your character.

Roll with the Punches refers to continuing IC rp based on *acceptance* of what has happened around you, even if you don't like what happened around you, or think it absurd (see example below).

How ~you~ react to what happened, is your call, so long as it's IC.

That's what Roll with the Punches is. IC reactions to the environment and players around you, rather than ooc garbage like "//that npc would never talk to you!" - because obviously, if they talked to the npc, then it would and did. Now it's your turn to ICLY react.

End of lesson. Quiz on Friday, closed book, no notes.

There is a certain amount of separation that must exist between a player and a character. Something unfair can happen to the character and it can be as unfair as it wants to be... it's the character. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes that line blurs and the distinction becomes difficult. All we can ask is that we are treated fairly as players and if we, the players, do act somewhat like twits... we man-up and apologize for being twits.

That being said, some of my characters have gotten the proverbial shaft several times over the years. Sometimes the line has blurred and I've even been known to have twit-ish tendencies once in a while (something I apologize for when it happens). However, I, personally, have always been treated fairly.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54AC2dh6KYU]You take the good, you take the bad,
You take them both and there you have
The facts of life, the facts of life.[/url]

Funny.. i prefer DM entercorse, i mean enteraction over PC.. 75% of the time. DMs give you bad guys that you can kill.. that stay dead.. they alow you to make a name for your char among the NPCs, being the people at large..

So.. right.. DMs? Please, NPC me with your NPC DMness!

i <3 NPCs!!!!

I also prefer DM intercourse.

I'll just let your brains go crazy.

Dev Disco wrote:

"Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it."

Wrong!

"Life is unfair, write a complaint to the universe, perhaps it does care."

Anyways, seriously, why complain about that suff >.<

People sure are weird.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

People are actually complaining when a DM runs NPCs??? I mean....really? I beg DMs to interact in this way sometimes (see State of Amia thread)...and....and they whinge and complain when one finally does?

Short answer: Yes. People complain if we step in to do stuff.

People must be weird, then. I love it when a DM possesses an NPC.
I remember once we had a low level party that was only surviving trogs because one player was five levels higher than the rest, and the DM decided to flood the area with waves of organised troglodyte attacks. It was awesome!

I don't know why people would complain about DM intervention. I myself, would love to see more random DM things, them just taking control of random NPCs and interacting with my own chars, or coming up with small events and unexpectedly do them without any warning.

In short: DM interaction=makes the game more lively and fun.

It's quite common for people to react negatively to DM attention. But no worry, I got a little list and I won't be bothering those people again for random surprise events.

Nekhy wrote:

It's quite common for people to react negatively to DM attention. But no worry, I got a little list and I won't be bothering those people again for random surprise events. ;)

Yes, give them events to me! <3 random DM kindness/cruelty

Just remember that the DMs are babysitting you for free. They don't have to do what they do.

Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 12:29 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Yes yes, aside from the inserted grumpy personality they're still given the choice to DM or not. The DMs don't -have- to log in on the DM client but they do for the sake of your enjoyment.

Show some gratitude where it's due.

Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 12:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Dev Disco wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJjOvKe3cP4

"Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it."

But why isn't it unfair in our favor?

But on topic: I also think DMs should reward people for showing dedication to some cause. Might be it is done, but I rarely hear from it.
[]

Just to kinda back up Kjetta:

I love DM intervention, but it seems a lot of the problem lies in people being unable to let go of the fact that their RP is now out of their control. When it's two players? You can send tells to each other, plan on somewhat what's going to happen, etc.

Once a DM steps in, all bets are off. It can be fun and it can be frustrating, but it's not meant to make anyone angry. The DMs wouldn't be doing their jobs otherwise. I've been in events where I've been frustrated as hell at a DM for having me sit there for three hours (I'm sure WonWon remembers the Ship from Hell incident. Yes, you heard me. I got mad at WonWon. Shock.)

Granted, I laugh about it now, which is what should happen. In the end, despite my initial frustration, it impacted my character ICly, it created even more RP, and it was a good thing.

Roll with the punches. Very good thing to follow.

Remember, if your character looks up and goes, "Hey God?" and their god answers? Be prepared for something to happen. The DMs don't really plan most of their stuff willy-nilly. If it involves you specifically/your faction, chances are there's been some observation. There's always some thought behind it. Even if they do get scattered. Most of the time, there's only so many of them around at once.

Anyway. My two cents for whatever it's worth. Probably didn't need all that writing. But hey, it's early and I haven't slept. XD

Well, you got rightfully frustrated. I'd probably have left after the first hour.

It's funny how everyone in this thread is saying "Yes, yes yes!". It would seem this is the wrong place to post a complaint like this after all, Kjetta. You should make a shout IG or something.

I've had this happen to me on the client before too. To advocate the other position, it may seem a bit aggravating when a DM intervenes in something and takes actions that are contrary to things that have been taken place before, simply because they don't know enough on the area or NPC history.

xordae wrote:

Well, you got rightfully frustrated. I'd probably have left after the first hour.

It's funny how everyone in this thread is saying "Yes, yes yes!". It would seem this is the wrong place to post a complaint like this after all, Kjetta. You should make a shout IG or something.

Oh, believe me. I wanted to. LOL. But, I kept getting told, "No, no, no. Just wait. We'll get there."

Luckily, WonWon did eventually get something going for us to keep occupied, but it took for-bloody-ever.

But, anyway.

I wouldn't really say it's inappropriate. I'm not honestly surprised there's people upset that the DMs get involved. Losing control can make people nervous. For example, if a DM were to pop up in the middle of, say, an elven celebration and attack with some drow? (This is an example, I'm not saying any of the DMs would do it.) I bet some of the people there would be pretty unhappy their event got messed with. It didn't go the way they wanted, thus, "GRAWR! You shouldn't have gotten involved."

My experience, and my guess, is the DMs are a little smarter and pick and choose when they get involve.

Xenos wrote:

Funny.. i prefer DM entercorse, i mean enteraction over PC.. 75% of the time. DMs give you epic lawknights that you can't kill.. that stand around all day.. they alow you to be hated on by commoners for no reason..

So.. right.. DMs? Please, NPC me with your NPC DMness!

i <3 NPCs!!!!

Fixed

Roll with the punches works both ways. A DM shouldn't have a senario so scripted that players aren't allowed to find creative ways to get from point A to point C just because they aren't touching point B with a ten-foot pole.

So far, I think it's been pretty good, and I love interaction. There was one time alone that I got angry, and the DM in question was breaking and crossing so many lines in one go. But I went with it, since there wasn't much else I could do.

Why does it have to always be a punch? Surely nice and fluffy things can come from a DM :lol:

The times I've had DM's possess NPC's around Rras, have been pleasureable for me as a player. It isn't because I enjoy the fear, or the hate they have, its because it allows me to RP out a portion of him that I am not oft able to. I have to use my brain to keep normal situations calm, because he's a 'monster'.

It adds another level of depth to the RP i dont normally have to deal with with the adventurors, most are.. ambivilent unless you're eating babies in cordor.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

People are actually complaining when a DM runs NPCs??? I mean....really? I beg DMs to interact in this way sometimes (see State of Amia thread)...and....and they whinge and complain when one finally does?

Short answer: Yes. People complain if we step in to do stuff.

Oh God, yes. If you aren't upset about the NPCs suddenly coming alive and having ears to hear what you're saying, or eyes to see what you're doing, and react accordingly, you're upset when NPCs don't do what you, in your limited worldview, think they should do.

Ramika wrote:

I've been in events where I've been frustrated as hell at a DM for having me sit there for three hours (I'm sure WonWon remembers the Ship from Hell incident. Yes, you heard me. I got mad at WonWon. Shock.)

There was a similar incident to this in Amian history that involved more players for a longer period of time. Suffice it to say, when DMs drop the ball, the impact resounds for years.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

I think everyone loves DM intervention...in theory.

I've seen at least one example of a woefully played NPC. Ages back, this necromancer (yes, the half undead, corpse summoning type) walk into Winya temple. Naturally, as I was playing Qirlan I instantly said "leave winya now". The person playing the PC seemed to expect such a response, it was probably the reason he came in the first place. However, one of the DMs got on one of the temple NPCs and started getting up qirlan...for disliking a necromancer coming into the temple. There was like a purely OOC pause from all the players, trying to work out why this guard from winya talks in a 'ye olde' accent and was pro necromancers in the temple. In that particular incident every elf I was with just moved about 10 meters and continued as though nothing had happened, it was pretty funny really.

So whilst you would think a DM would almost always make a situation great, when they don't have a feeling for character voice they can really mess it up.

Most of the time it isnt so bad though. I don't meant to sound like I was attacking the DM that did the above either, just saying why players can get annoyed. Remember, not only are you playing a character as a DM but you are probably playing a character that is meant to have more sway than others. So when people think Wiltun is one area, and you have Lord Wiltun doing cartwheels around the place it can really ruin it.

Wyjyn wrote:

I think everyone loves DM intervention...in theory.

I've seen at least one example of a woefully played NPC. Ages back, this necromancer (yes, the half undead, corpse summoning type) walk into Winya temple. Naturally, as I was playing Qirlan I instantly said "leave winya now". The person playing the PC seemed to expect such a response, it was probably the reason he came in the first place. However, one of the DMs got on one of the temple NPCs and started getting up qirlan...for disliking a necromancer coming into the temple.

So whilst you would think a DM would almost always make a situation great, when they don't have a feeling for character voice they can really mess it up. In that particular incident every elf I was with just moved about 10 meters and continued as though nothing had happened, it was pretty funny really.

Most of the time it isnt so bad though.

So whilst you were metagaming this necromancer the DM was preventing it without issuing a ban. Certainly worth complaining about.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

Metagaming a necromancer? He had a born arm, had attacked my character before with said born arm and about 5 mins into the conversation said "yes, I animate the dead".

Cool story bro.

MoshingChris wrote:

Wyjyn wrote:

I think everyone loves DM intervention...in theory.

I've seen at least one example of a woefully played NPC. Ages back, this necromancer (yes, the half undead, corpse summoning type) walk into Winya temple. Naturally, as I was playing Qirlan I instantly said "leave winya now". The person playing the PC seemed to expect such a response, it was probably the reason he came in the first place. However, one of the DMs got on one of the temple NPCs and started getting up qirlan...for disliking a necromancer coming into the temple.

So whilst you would think a DM would almost always make a situation great, when they don't have a feeling for character voice they can really mess it up. In that particular incident every elf I was with just moved about 10 meters and continued as though nothing had happened, it was pretty funny really.

Most of the time it isnt so bad though.

So whilst you were metagaming this necromancer the DM was preventing it without issuing a ban. Certainly worth complaining about.

Moshing, dude, you knew almost nothing about the situation aside from what he told you, and you already passed judgment on him and accused him of metagamming within a few min, seriously?

*pat pat* It's ok Wyjyn I feel your pain *hugs*

Edit:
...and this is called the 'Fairness' thread...*sighs and goes on a moonlit walk through the forest*

Your example, Wyjyn, is precisely why we DMs get into the trend of having DMs who handle particular areas or NPCs. Our familiarity with them from either a lore perspective or just from basic consistency.

To me, the most amusing example of inconsistent RP is with Mayor Nof of Bendir Dale. I was the first DM to really play him after Budly was removed as Mayor and he became the General-Mayor. And he was very homey, friendly, a bit of a stiff-neck when it came to religion, but he was a happy, smiley, very jovial sort.

And then another DM took a wildly different approach. Made him a hardcore military guy due to his experience. (To me, even though he was General of the Militia, I saw him as happy to be out of it and the attitude). And then I possessed him again later, and he was happy. Then he was gruff. Then nice again. Then a bastard.

Me and some other DMs kept doing this back and forth before we realized what was going on, so we came up with the explanation that Mayor Nof has a dietary issue (low blood sugar, I think). When I play him, he's just eaten and is happy as hell. Very nice to people. Very understanding and even compassionate. When others take him on, he's irritable and cranky, ready to just get some sweetened, baked goods into him so he feels better.

Multiple personality disorder, literally.

Note to self, bring sweetberry pies when visiting Nof...

Ahem.

Back in the crazy days, when a certain dm was about, I specifically remember a possessing of Windy to beat down my party.

We won. What did he do? Spawned Windy's mate. xD

Crunch was killed, violently. He then proceeded to take a few of my absolutely worthless trinkets, and do weird things to my body.

What did I do? Laughed my irish arse off. I don't remember if I got a DC or not, but I remember it being some of the funniest rp I've ever seen.

Case in point: grow a sense of humor. It's not like your dead remains have been fondled by a dragon. xD

I yearn for the day when a dm will posses the spirits of the forests and use them to smite all the foolish and evil drow who tend to keep wandering through there.

Them badgers can be vicious you know :lol:

The spirits of the forest are angry about the overpopulation of deer and badgers and the silly druids that stop sustinence hunting. :p

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

I've had this happen to me on the client before too. To advocate the other position, it may seem a bit aggravating when a DM intervenes in something and takes actions that are contrary to things that have been taken place before, simply because they don't know enough on the area or NPC history.

Well, to be honest: How often have experienced the following?

Player calls you for possessing a guard because 'something is going on in Cordor'. Which is fine.
The player then expects you to oversee the situation on Cordor Square in 3 seconds, and perform the action that they have in mind. Which is impossible.

If you have that kind of expectations you will become frustrated by DM interventions. I guess you will become frustrated in general, also outside Amia, unless you change your own attitude, but that's a different story.

When I used to posses NPC's I tried to figure out thier motives. Gaurds want peace and orderly conduct that doesn't freak out the general populace of cordor (The nobles, commoners, etc.) Tristina loves money.

That's a nice approach if you do an event, not if you handle a situation with 10 people spamming your chat panel.

Tell'em to keep thier britches on, you're coming and you need to do things right.

If they ask a DM to deal with a situation they should take into account that it may not be pretty, if you ask me.

Athyonn Ursidae wrote:

I yearn for the day when a dm will posses the spirits of the forests and use them to smite all the foolish and evil drow who tend to keep wandering through there.

Them badgers can be vicious you know :lol:

I'll do you one better: I yearn for the day the DM's take over all that is nature of the forest to kill all the crazy mages that go in and cause trouble/summon undead every other hour.

Dev Disco wrote:

Player calls you for possessing a guard because 'something is going on in Cordor'. Which is fine.
The player then expects you to oversee the situation on Cordor Square in 3 seconds, and perform the action that they have in mind. Which is impossible.

I think part of that might be because the guard is right there and would have ICly known exactly what happened. So ICly, their character and I guess sometimes even OOCly, they feel like the guard NPC controlled by the DM should just step in and do what needs to be done right away. That's a bit of a down fall to NPC guards I think, sometimes people seem to forget that the DM didn't see everything so they have to observe for a while before they do whatever it is they're going to do with the NPC guard. It's not the DM's fault, it's just unrealistic expectations from players.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Athyonn Ursidae wrote:

I yearn for the day when a dm will posses the spirits of the forests and use them to smite all the foolish and evil drow who tend to keep wandering through there.

Them badgers can be vicious you know :lol:

I'll do you one better: I yearn for the day the DM's take over all that is nature of the forest to kill all the crazy mages that go in and cause trouble/summon undead every other hour.

Well well...that...would just be boring. ^^ What happened to the balance?

*Seliene takes a walk in the forest with her undead* "oops" *smirks*

Willow is her arch-rival, arch-rivals make every day a little more interesting.

besides I think the score is like:

Seliene 1
Willow 3

....at the moment. *smevil chuckle*

Bella is so going to kick someones butt when I can sort out my flaming graphics again.

I have to be the first to admit at times, I have this tiny little rant about people who can't accept something bad happening to their character.

I also have to admit as a player when this has happened to characters, ideally I like trying to get it resolved to some measure of closure as soon as viable so that I can get back on to playing. However by the same token, if it is something that'd warrant my character's final destruction? Y'know what, that's fine. *Though I do believe some measure of implied warning is fair before such a terminal case*

In a recent example, Bryce perished from a mixture of factors: The only way I'm playing him again is honestly if there's a darn good reason to call him back from the Afterlife , or to OOCly transfer his personal estate per his Last Will *Gers and Phearnun can both attest to the estate being not in a position to benefit any of my own characters directly, per any muling fears*

((I think Phearnun even said the Last Will is on the Kellie forums if any DM wishes to have a look))

Fairness

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