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As I finished typing, the topic I was posting on was locked, but I shall not let that stop me!

I'd like to help BlackDahlya's idea work, with some alterations and DM support. Using the background ideas of Drow intensive, not necessarily an attack on Bendir Dale.

BlackDahlya wrote:

As for random adventurer snatching, so many players hate being captured and dragged down for whatever reason. That's why I asked for temporary PCs willing to be permakilled.

It might be that the PCs involved won't even die. Permadeath is only something that ~could~ happen.

At first I thought about using NPCs for this, but the DM suggested using PCs.]

I agree with you.
I know what you mean. It is really annoying.

I think the idea of having NPCs would be a great idea. having a drow harvest of surfacer commoners. After all, they'd make the least resistance as opposed to a powerful or group of powerful adventurers.

I think a DM run quest is definitely worth running, on the DMs part. Think how great the effect would be on the surface! News throughout the lands of serious troubles that might even make people (not necessarily PCs) try to form angry mobs to drow hunt or even try to get that drow out of Cordor government! That would be chaotic and really bring life and a sense of urgency into the whole island.

Last edited by TormakSaber on Tue, Jan 27 2009, 2:22 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Meh, it's boring as DMs, because none of you care about NPCs.

Why should we waste time making a random army of drow attack the surface and attack random NPC nobodies when we have dozens, hundreds of willing PCs perfectly capable of doing this?

Funny how it's suddenly not drama as long as it's only NPCs on both sides...

What fun is a plot for you guys that consists of us throwing pawns at each other? I can call up Ron and a few others and play Command and Conquer, or Age of Empires for that. Any plot that actively avoids PCs to "progress" is not a plot, generally speaking.

EDIT: Before you mention my plots, I will sate for the record: They began as a result of PCs actions, PCs were the movers and shakers, and ultimately it was the PCs that drove any NPC conflicts.

Besides, you Hin are quite busy in Bendir Dale, and it would be inconsiderate to add drama to your bustiling little Dale, just as it would be "inconsiderate" for Dahlya and Drow PCs to do the same.

I didn't mean NPCs on both sides. I meant in terms of having some DM plot run so that PC drow characters can have an affect on the surface of the horror that drow would/should create in game.

Your proposed alteration is "DMs run it with our NPCs against your NPCs".

I much prefer Dahlya's personal organization and purely PC involvement, with minor DM oversight.

And I, of course, am eager to see PCs die and never get up again.

TormakSaber wrote:

Your proposed alteration is "DMs run it with our NPCs against your NPCs".

Urr.... What?

TormakSaber wrote:

Meh, it's boring as DMs, because none of you care about NPCs.

Why should we waste time making a random army of drow attack the surface and attack random NPC nobodies when we have dozens, hundreds of willing PCs perfectly capable of doing this?

Funny how it's suddenly not drama as long as it's only NPCs on both sides...

What fun is a plot for you guys that consists of us throwing pawns at each other? I can call up Ron and a few others and play Command and Conquer, or Age of Empires for that. Any plot that actively avoids PCs to "progress" is not a plot, generally speaking.

EDIT: Before you mention my plots, I will sate for the record: They began as a result of PCs actions, PCs were the movers and shakers, and ultimately it was the PCs that drove any NPC conflicts.

Besides, you Hin are quite busy in Bendir Dale, and it would be inconsiderate to add drama to your bustiling little Dale, just as it would be "inconsiderate" for Dahlya and Drow PCs to do the same.

He does have a point. If the hin players were not so hostile towards my idea, which you guys didn't even know what was about, it ~could~ have been a nice plot.

The hate generated would be even stronger because of how the captured hins would be used.

I was also going to take my PC at the Dale (around the Dale, of course, not within the city) to check the security around the area, check the ins-and-outs, all before doing anything.

Your comments there gave me the impression that I was as smart as a brick. Just because I was ommiting some things, it didn't mean I didn't have even thought about them. While the idea came up on an impulse, because of previous RP had at Ultrinnan, I was brainstorming even as I was posting.

I am always up for character development and I wouldn't mind consequences on such a plot, especially because of its nature. The question was whether or not the other drow players or hin players would want to suffer those consequences.

Death wouldn't be necessarily the end all for that. Once they were taken below, the RP that would happen would not be around PvP.

But, alas... no sense crying over spilt milk, now, is there?

There was no real reason behind that plot other than fun on an OOC level, and IC, a really nasty portrait of the drow's culture to increase the hate to a really, really huge amount.

No, unfortunately the poster of the grandfather thread had the right idea. It's just that people want stuff to happen unless it's happening to them. I wish I could recall the last time life decided not to throw me another problem because I already had enough problems to "deal" with.

NPCs should be nothing more than stage hands. The PCs need to do the work and face the music.

My proposed alteration is:

Have it an ongoing thing with a DM actually creating plot points and depth, as much as the evil drow PCs growing and creating ingenious ways of harvesting surfacers.

sephira: mind I asking what is the point of involving and having rp with the drow players then? do not take this the wrong way but you seem to hate the lolthlites for some reason, might not be true but that is the feeling.

Hey!! Just because I have a hin character don't assume I'm being protective of the dale because of it. In fact, my character doesn't give a toss about Bendir Dale, and even if it did, that doesn't give me any right to try and make up reasons to save it for whatever OOC or personal reason or another.

I am trying to contribute to an actual plot for the drow to come across as being more evil as BlackDahlya intended from the begining, but having it maintained and managed by DMs over time allowing for growth and real long lasting consequence throughout the surface of Amia.

Assuming I'm being protective over hin is just sickening to read.

herkles wrote:

sephira: mind I asking what is the point of involving and having rp with the drow players then? do not take this the wrong way but you seem to hate the lolthlites for some reason, might not be true but that is the feeling.

Actually, I'm trying to -help- the Llolthites here.

SephiraAndy wrote:

I am trying to contribute to an actual plot for the drow to come across as being more evil as BlackDahlya intended from the begining, but having it maintained and managed by DMs over time allowing for growth and real long lasting consequence throughout the surface of Amia.

What you sound like you're saying is that a plot that pits the drow against anyone or anything on the surface is only palatable if a DM is doing all the work and leaving no responsibility to create depth and plot points to the drow players themselves. Maybe you could give a more concrete example of what you're getting at.

TormakSaber wrote:

Meh, it's boring as DMs, because none of you care about NPCs.

Why should we waste time making a random army of drow attack the surface and attack random NPC nobodies when we have dozens, hundreds of willing PCs perfectly capable of doing this?

Funny how it's suddenly not drama as long as it's only NPCs on both sides...

What fun is a plot for you guys that consists of us throwing pawns at each other? I can call up Ron and a few others and play Command and Conquer, or Age of Empires for that. Any plot that actively avoids PCs to "progress" is not a plot, generally speaking.

EDIT: Before you mention my plots, I will sate for the record: They began as a result of PCs actions, PCs were the movers and shakers, and ultimately it was the PCs that drove any NPC conflicts.

Besides, you Hin are quite busy in Bendir Dale, and it would be inconsiderate to add drama to your bustiling little Dale, just as it would be "inconsiderate" for Dahlya and Drow PCs to do the same.

Everytime I look at this topic, thispost has more and more paragraphs. Please add in line so that each issue is addressed as opposed to dumping it in an early post and having certain pokes and digs at me sneakily buried under more posts.

SephiraAndy wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Meh, it's boring as DMs, because none of you care about NPCs.

Why should we waste time making a random army of drow attack the surface and attack random NPC nobodies when we have dozens, hundreds of willing PCs perfectly capable of doing this?

Funny how it's suddenly not drama as long as it's only NPCs on both sides...

What fun is a plot for you guys that consists of us throwing pawns at each other? I can call up Ron and a few others and play Command and Conquer, or Age of Empires for that. Any plot that actively avoids PCs to "progress" is not a plot, generally speaking.

EDIT: Before you mention my plots, I will sate for the record: They began as a result of PCs actions, PCs were the movers and shakers, and ultimately it was the PCs that drove any NPC conflicts.

Besides, you Hin are quite busy in Bendir Dale, and it would be inconsiderate to add drama to your bustiling little Dale, just as it would be "inconsiderate" for Dahlya and Drow PCs to do the same.

Everytime I look at this topic, thispost has more and more paragraphs. Please add in line so that each issue is addressed as opposed to dumping it in an early post and having certain pokes and digs at me sneakily buried under more posts.

Just to be fair.

Quote:

Last edited by TormakSaber on Tue, Jan 27 2009, 02:22; edited 1 time in total.

He editted while you were posting.

BlackDahlya wrote:

If the hin players were not so hostile towards my idea, which you guys didn't even know what was about, it ~could~ have been a nice plot.[/color]

Actually, I'm quite supportive of the idea, but the topic got locked before I could reply. I love player events. I think it's even more fun when it's properly planned, surprise or not.

Yossarin wrote:

SephiraAndy wrote:

I am trying to contribute to an actual plot for the drow to come across as being more evil as BlackDahlya intended from the begining, but having it maintained and managed by DMs over time allowing for growth and real long lasting consequence throughout the surface of Amia.

What you sound like you're saying is that a plot that pits the drow against anyone or anything on the surface is only palatable if a DM is doing all the work and leaving no responsibility to create depth and plot points to the drow players themselves. Maybe you could give a more concrete example of what you're getting at.

I'm merely suggesting an alternative to haing PCs moan and complain about having drow kidnap or kill their character.

Too mny times I've seen parties just ignore drow that are there trying to create a sense of danger. The drow are doing what they can to be in character but many parties I have been in have just kept in party chat saying stuff like "Oh I hate drow blahblahblah.. they're just after a PK etc." But I try and get them to say it IC. Try to get some RP flowing. Having some danger for my character to overcome is reward for me. But annoyingly, not for many people that play, as they separate RP and "Hunting" thinking that if they ignore the RP with the drow, they can get XP faster.

I hate seeing this. But DMs don't seem to mind, but would rather see a PvP bloodfest where RP will only get in the way of fighting and only uber builds will win.

I'm suggesting a middle ground.

Something that DMs can use as a plot devise as well as something to develop, helping drow achieve their perceived fear.

The use of NPCs can be utilised well with thought, and this will be for the benefit of drows with the thirst of capturing surfacers.

Having a surfacer adventure part involved too (PCs) would increase RP prospects and even create more tension and drama.

SephiraAndy wrote:

I'm merely suggesting an alternative to haing PCs moan and complain about having drow kidnap or kill their character.

Doesn't asking for volunteers avoid this problem?

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

BlackDahlya wrote:

If the hin players were not so hostile towards my idea, which you guys didn't even know what was about, it ~could~ have been a nice plot.[/color]

Actually, I'm quite supportive of the idea, but the topic got locked before I could reply. I love player events. I think it's even more fun when it's properly planned, surprise or not.

True. Though of the three hin players posting, all of them were instantly hostile.

Sure, they don't speak for the whole hin player population, but it made me wary anyway. I was thinking that if the plot ever got through, OOC grief towards both me and the DMs involved (if there would be any), might have happened.

StandingBehindYou wrote:

SephiraAndy wrote:

I'm merely suggesting an alternative to haing PCs moan and complain about having drow kidnap or kill their character.

Doesn't asking for volunteers avoid this problem?

Yes. I am in favor of that. I thought the asking for volunteers was a good idea. It's been done to great effect in the past too.

StandingBehindYou wrote:

SephiraAndy wrote:

I'm merely suggesting an alternative to haing PCs moan and complain about having drow kidnap or kill their character.

Doesn't asking for volunteers avoid this problem?

I admit that it was exactly why I asked for volunteers, since they wouldn't be too attached to the characters. It would avoid complaints about how cruel things would have been.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

BlackDahlya wrote:

If the hin players were not so hostile towards my idea, which you guys didn't even know what was about, it ~could~ have been a nice plot.[/color]

Actually, I'm quite supportive of the idea, but the topic got locked before I could reply. I love player events. I think it's even more fun when it's properly planned, surprise or not.

True. Though of the three hin players posting, all of them were instantly hostile.

Sure, they don't speak for the whole hin player population, but it made me wary anyway. I was thinking that if the plot ever got through, OOC grief towards both me and the DMs involved (if there would be any), might have happened.

Hey, come on now. I wasn't being hostile. I was trying to be constructive.

Last edited by BlackDahlya on Tue, Jan 27 2009, 3:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.

SephiraAndy wrote:

BlackDahlya wrote:

<snip>

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

<snip>

Hey, come on now. I wasn't being hostile. I was trying to be constructive.

I could have misinterpreted, and I will stand corrected if I did.

But you were OOC asking for a reasoning behind it all, asking questions that would only pertain to an IC scope rather than OOC? Do you really think that IC the drow would bother giving a reason behind their attack?

Or were you trying to consider whether or not the plot would be worth a try because you couldn't think of a reason why it could have been carried on?

Again, I will stand corrected if I was wrong in interpreting what you said, and again will leave the question:

"Why should my ~drow~ PC care ~IC~ whether or not the hin city was in disarray and how uncalled for would have been such an attack?"

SephiraAndy wrote:

Please note. This is not meant as spam. It is only a critique. Please do not hate me for this.

I just want to know if there's an actual reason for the "random" slaughter.

There was in game talk recently between my halfling character and some other about why in the world would drow bother attacking Bendir Dale, and to be honest we came up with not muc apart from the nice location between the forest and Cordor. Though, to a Drow, the local orc cave, troll cave, or even the mylock lair would be far more appropriate for the light sensitive race.

If the reason is conquest, I think the drow would need a lot motr thought behind it.

If the reason is for resources, I'm confused as to what resources, other than Fendel's ale supply, would be worth anything to a drow.

If it is just random, then, I guess there's no point in justification and I really don't think I'd enjoy playing on either side.

As it's been mentioned about the generation of hatred, yes I agree there will be quite a bit, though I doubt it will be so much toward the drow, as much it will be to some of the players that will be bragging about PKs (Not just the drow -> halfling PKs).

Volunteers is a good idea. And the thing about NPCs not mattering to players is not true, at least not in the Dale. We interact and refer to the NPCs by name all the time. And I'm sure people would care if one of them went missing.

Edit: Concerning resources, Egan's secret recipes are something people would kill for.

Don't get me wrong, Sephira. Your questions did have a point. But they were all OOC. You were trying to OOC figure out a reason for the attack, when the idea was having you folks figure it out IC.

BlackDahlya wrote:

I could have misinterpreted, and I will stand corrected if I did.

But you were OOC asking for a reasoning behind it all, asking questions that would only pertain to an IC scope rather than OOC? Do you really think that IC the drow would bother giving a reason behind their attack?

Or were you trying to consider whether or not the plot would be worth a try because you couldn't think of a reason why it could have been carried on?

Again, I will stand corrected if I was wrong in interpreting what you said, and again will leave the question:

"Why should my ~drow~ PC care ~IC~ whether or not the hin city was in disarray and how uncalled for would have been such an attack?"

No, I was trying to flesh things out. That's why I used the term "critique".

Your drow has no reason to care what toil Bendir Dale is currently going through, and that wasn't even one of my concerns.

SephiraAndy wrote:

Your drow has no reason to care what toil Bendir Dale is currently going through, and that wasn't even one of my concerns.

When in fact, they should exploit their weariness and fatigue caused by the current situation.
IC Drama=good
OOC Drama=not needed.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Don't get me wrong, Sephira. Your questions did have a point. But they were all OOC. You were trying to OOC figure out a reason for the attack, when the idea was having you folks figure it out IC.

You're right there. And that's what I was hoping would be addressed even when I was typing in your original topic.

If there is a reason behind it that is kept in mystery, that's all good.
My main hope was that it wasn't just a shallow attempt to generate hate OOCly. That's all I was asking.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

SephiraAndy wrote:

Your drow has no reason to care what toil Bendir Dale is currently going through, and that wasn't even one of my concerns.

When in fact, they should exploit their weariness and fatigue caused by the current situation.
IC Drama=good
OOC Drama=not needed.

Agreed here! 100%

BlackDahlya wrote:

Don't get me wrong, Sephira. Your questions did have a point. But they were all OOC. You were trying to OOC figure out a reason for the attack, when the idea was having you folks figure it out IC.

And a big NO! .. I wasn't trying to figure out OOCly any IC reasons for the attack, as you blatantly said I was.

I, nor any of my characters, wouldn't even benefit from knowing.

I was going by your original post that said something along the lines of

"Hey, I had a random idea of attacking hin. Who's willing to sacrifice their hin?"

I was just unclear as to whether your idea had insight, or whether it really was just a random act of violence with DM blessings. That's all.

I will apologize for sounding hostile as I am for good RP, however I have yet to see a capture RP that was good RP for the rescuers, especially with drow as there is no way to get into Ultrinaan. And as I said in the last thread, we have external issues as well and the PC/NPC militia are on high alert right now

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

An addendum to the original Mole post:

Militia are now required, when on water and horn duty, to be in groups of at least three, preferably four.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

A new notice
militia should take double shifts if possible. To prepare, everyone should find themselves either eye bracers or faded balls to combat invisibility and darkness. Any who can use them should stock up on either shapechange or polymorph scrolls to handle Shadowdancers. Keep Mindblank potions, Rhino's Stamina potions and any other potions you use on you and in great quantities. Raise dead scrolls as well and heal potions.

Patrols should regularly be ran to the troll caves in groups of three, as well as to the southern edge of the forest and even down the south road a little ways.

Also, Lenses of Detection are a must. A pair of traps can absolutely devastate a combatant, and these nifty little trinkets, found rather cheap in Pinky's Pawns, can save you a lot of hurt.

So performing a kidnapping from inside the dale will be difficult at the moment. However, once this issue has finished would be a great time to attack as everyone will be weary and not expecting another threat.

SephiraAndy wrote:

I hate seeing this. But DMs don't seem to mind, but would rather see a PvP bloodfest where RP will only get in the way of fighting and only uber builds will win.

I'm suggesting a middle ground.

Something that DMs can use as a plot devise as well as something to develop, helping drow achieve their perceived fear.

I'm skeptical. So long as Amia remains standing on the border of catering to both social roleplayers and optimizing action players, the latter is going to win out in a conflict due only to the nature of NWN itself, a game with numbers at its heart. I could easily say, "Actually, the drow don't win this one, because it is nobler for men to try to accomplish things through diplomatic roleplay!" but this is poor consolation when your hin are bleeding in the grass.

Now, I know very well how to construct a DM event challenge that will favor builds that are not PvP optimized. I just wonder at the ethics of doing so.

Also, if I were going to help the drow achieve their perceived fear, let me tell you what would happen. Non-drow players would suddenly shriek about the drow having a DM backing them who is using NPCs and advancing the world to make them seem scary when the responsibility for them being a threat should be in their hands alone. Because, of course, I'm only doing it for them. I'm not making anyone else look scary through my DM antics. Or look good through my DM antics. Etc.

It is easier for the complainants to swallow if we can say that we're not initiating their fear campaign, but we're just letting them do what they do, having the environment react or change based on what they do, and this contributes to them being scary. It may sound like splitting hairs, but there's a different between the DM telling the players how to affect the world, and the players telling the DM how they want to affect the world and the DM saying, "Do it and let's see what happens."

Seriously, have more faith on your fellow players and the DMs, folks.

My cynicisms is a result of my experience.

Y'know something:

One of my initial temptations was to do a lot of screaming when I saw the mess this created was to start reaming out the ones who argued against this idea.

It's a good idea and a good concept, and while I admit I didn't quite step up right off the bat seeing this and saying 'HEY I want on this!' , was because I wasn't sure what kind of availibility I had time wise was around the planned time..

The people who spoke up against this, I will freely admit inspired a lot of ire in me. The whole 'Hey let's have a DM have NPCs be the victims' as opposed to players taking it on the chin reaaally doesn't set well with me as a player, mainly because honestly I'm of the school that while yes, every character's life is a story, I'm sorry folks, they have to have endings.

A good example of this recently, Bryce. I admit as a player while there had been less fun for him for a while there was still good moment. But, he also honestly had a long and mostly good career as a character. Plus, a situation arose where a suitable oppritunity to end him (albeit in a slower fashion then some might expect) came up.

So ended the tale of Bryce Aldemann, a Corporal, once Lieutenant, Archmage, Cormyrian, Friend, Hero and to some Villain. There was things he had wanted to do but were not completed. I know not all of them could be continued by others in due course. One of them being, a couple of interesting Mythal experiments I never really got into doing as planned, I fault myself heavily on this as other things caught both my attention and his to draw away from them.

Do I lament this, perhaps. But, in my lamentations I can find new oppritunities, a perfect example is something Cpt_Metalien_XC convinced me to do, idly once while in party chat. Make a Banite.

I still have Warrick, I still have Vaelmith, I still have Tiasar *though I readily confess he's not played so much but I'll work on that*. I also, still have Hispara. All of whom will continue to play, have their own arcs and things happen to them.

Going back to the topic at hand: Why can't PC's take it on the chin? Why can't they die and be unable to return? These are questions which should be asked in your own minds, and thusly answered as well. I would welcome private messages or MSN conversations to reply to them if you feel you can offer interesting answers (even if they may disagree with my implied views).

My PM box is always open and my MSN generally always willing to accept new contacts s'long as I can recognize you somehow.

Grymia,

I didn't say anything about excluding PCs from taking it on the chin. In fact I even agreed with it on a few occasions(see above).

you3507 wrote:

<snip> So performing a kidnapping from inside the dale will be difficult at the moment. However, once this issue has finished would be a great time to attack as everyone will be weary and not expecting another threat.

I addressed that matter above, if you read all the posts.

BlackDahlya wrote:

I was also going to take my PC at the Dale (around the Dale, of course, not within the city) to check the security around the area, check the ins-and-outs, all before doing anything.

An ambush would have probably been set somewhere. It would all depend on what my PC would have found out.

Anyway, for now I shall abstain from posting here. Some of the replies here and on the previous thread got me insulted and disappointed, and I am trying to get over it all.

Personally I loved the idea, and don't understand why the thread was locked.

I'd even consider being one of the Hin PC's if I didn't have another character who would want to be involved.

I've always wondered, is it possible to set factions so that some PCs are allied to certain NPCs while others weren't?

For example, could it be possible to have a drow NPC group allied to drow PCs and march them all over to the dale, where the hin were enemies of the drow NPCs?

Just wondering, because I had drawn up a rough draft for a raid plan long ago, but scraped it due to the impossibility of filling all the required roles (a mage group with fighter escort emerging from every entrance at approx the same time)

Also, is it possible to temporarily turn off porting in/out of areas? Example: dale is under attack, hin runs into tavern, ports to cordor, rallies epics, ports back in with army, drow routed.

compared to drow attack dale, lone hin escapes towards cordor, runs his way to the city gates, rallies epics, army runs back to the dale and save the day, but drow might have scored a victory in the time it took.

Quote:

I've always wondered, is it possible to set factions so that some PCs are allied to certain NPCs while others weren't?

For example, could it be possible to have a drow NPC group allied to drow PCs and march them all over to the dale, where the hin were enemies of the drow NPCs?

Just wondering, because I had drawn up a rough draft for a raid plan long ago, but scraped it due to the impossibility of filling all the required roles (a mage group with fighter escort emerging from every entrance at approx the same time)

Get the PCs to be the invading army. you can still make a powerful blow to an enemy side with PCs alone, regardless of friendly NPCs on their side.

It does mean you'll either require a lot of PCs, a few PCs with a very SOLID tactical plan, or a mix of the two.

Why bother attacking the Dale when that faction is busy? Come and attack Kolinghen, we'd love to smite some Drow.

Last edited by FA_Frey_XC on Tue, Jan 27 2009, 6:34 AM, edited 3 times in total.

Zanthair wrote:

I've always wondered, is it possible to set factions so that some PCs are allied to certain NPCs while others weren't?

For example, could it be possible to have a drow NPC group allied to drow PCs and march them all over to the dale, where the hin were enemies of the drow NPCs?

Just wondering, because I had drawn up a rough draft for a raid plan long ago, but scraped it due to the impossibility of filling all the required roles (a mage group with fighter escort emerging from every entrance at approx the same time)

Also, is it possible to temporarily turn off porting in/out of areas? Example: dale is under attack, hin runs into tavern, ports to cordor, rallies epics, ports back in with army, drow routed.

compared to drow attack dale, lone hin escapes towards cordor, runs his way to the city gates, rallies epics, army runs back to the dale and save the day, but drow might have scored a victory in the time it took.

Unfortunalty, Z, that's something that affects almost every plot.

How many of you have been part of a DM event that HAD NO ANNOUNCEMENT, yet within the space of three clicks of a mouse everyone and their grandmother has suddenly "Wandered into the area" or "heard some noise and came to investigate" when they've never stepped foot in the place?

You want to know who causes plots to become mucked? You do. Yes, that's right, I'm pointing my bone finger at you. If it doesn't apply, then let it fly, but the reason I bring this up is, IMHO, it's the core issue.

The rest of this is just symptoms of the bigger problem... which is:

On Amia, No One Likes To Lose.

Being able to accept loss as a part of life and actually use it to empower, or strengthen your character is reality. We deal with this on a daily basis, and for some of us we take it for what it is, a learning experience.

Most, and notice I said MOST, people on Amia are the exact opposite.

They don't like to loose.

Their Hero's / Heroines are all godlike beautful, can move buildings with a pinky, and if they'd tell it the Gods come to THEM for advice.

So .. what? Get caught by Drow? PFFFt.

Personally? I'd LOVE for Frey to get caught by the Drow while he was walking to the Monestary.

1.) I'd get to see the inside of Ultrinnan
2.) I'd get to RP something totally off the beaten path
3.) I'd get a chance at what could be potentially a huge growth experience / personality changing experience for my character.

I look at the positives, not my personal ego-reasons why my character would never get killed EVAH!!!

I recently had someone tell me that they didn't want to take their character hunting because they were afraid if they did, and someone caught them, their character might be beaten and that would dispel .. something, I don't remember exactly what...

That is just wrong. You can't play things safe, and except everyone else to do the same. Go to a snuggle-bear server if that's what your looking for. Frey still walks, goes to Cordor, goes hunting, and by Chaos if he gets confronted by someone, he'll do what he does best. If it results in his body recorporating in Tarkuul, so be it.

If it results in him gaining another bone for his armour, so be it.

Either way, it will develop and add even more depth to my character.

I love that.

Regards,

More PCs = More roleplay = Happy DMs. Throw in solid tactics, and more happiness.

Mind, there have been an army of 30+ PCs raised in the past.

Currently, I only thought about the hin because the idea came through a RP I had earlier today.

But if something else comes up involving other cities, I will surely do something about it. ;)

Attacking the Glave maybe? They offer place to many creatures, but drow are not the first one they would choose I think. Some old crunsh against the druids maybe? Tho, that wouls be quite huge... So maybe not.

BUt anyway. I do like the idea of attacking somewhere with a IC tactics and RP alonside it. But no perma deaths. I even hate normal dying, even when raised. Everyone act about it personally. Some reamember the last blow, but not the fight. Some reamember nothing about the fight, some reamember everything. I hate improving my char threw dying, cause I can't well imagine how it would feel, in the emotional and thought part of your mind. *sigh*

Bit offtopic, but bare with me.

Daniel_Waynold wrote:

I even hate normal dying, even when raised. Everyone act about it personally. Some reamember the last blow, but not the fight. Some reamember nothing about the fight, some reamember everything. I hate improving my char threw dying, cause I can't well imagine how it would feel, in the emotional and thought part of your mind. *sigh*

Bit offtopic, but bare with me.

Daniel, I don't want you to feel like I'm picking on you, but this is kinda my point.

In the NWN PW you and I play in, death is almost like getting kicked in the na-nas.

It hurts a lot at first, then it stops, and you kinda forget about it after a while.

Die? You get raised. Live until your old, die happy, and then go to your Gods realm and spend eternity laughing about everyone else.

That's a pretty cool picture, if you ask me.

Regards,

*raises hand*

Got caught by drow.

Got dragged down to their house.

Got interrogated, via torture (which was well within the minor limit I set of not being too overly graphic, and was within the rules).

Gave up information.

Was killed.

Did not immediately jump up and say "Oh, this is what happened, it's no big deal. These are the drow who did it." In fact, I couldn't identify them at all, and it took a lot of fun rp with several others, before I even icly put the memory fragments together of what even happened.

Am icly scared shitless of drow now. And had a minor change to personality. Was, after all, kinda on the traumatic side.

Was it a "lose"? Guess that depends on how you look at it. The drow got answers from me. They captured me pretty easily - not because I *wanted* to get caught, but rather, because it was well rp'd. They killed me. I'm paranoid of them now. If you call that a "lose", then yup...I lost.

But considering it was FABULOUS rp, and has given me something new to work with on my pc, given her some character....well, I call that a big huge win.

Personally, I think a raid would be a wonderful thing. Drow do these things. They don't need to have any "gain" or "spoils" - the chaos a raid creates makes Lloth happy, and that's the motivation - getting Lloth on their "side". Plus it's a nice reminder that drow aren't nancy-elves. Those all live in Winya

The Dale is busy atm. But..I'm sure there's plenty of places that would love to be attacked. Kolinghen, Winya, Wiltun....just to name a few...

TBH I see nothing wrong with attacking the Dale. Oh no, Hin are busy?

You just got busier.

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