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Although I have the feeling that polytheism would be a normal concept on Amia, I have no idea how it would work with paladins. How to change a paladin's deity ?

I've conduced myself a small research about Kelemvor and Tyr and I came with the following conclusion, for which I kindly request suggestions and advices:

Kelemvor represents the final Justice, judging the faithless souls and the heretic, putting the dead into his final rest. In summary, judging the dead.
Tyr would represent the living justice, judging and punishing the evil. According to Wiki, Tyr would considerer slaying agents of evil to be honorable and worthy of the highest praise. In summary, judging those who live.

I was wondering If It would be possible a paladin worshiping Tyr and Kelemvor. Would this paladin apply the uber justice ?

You can worship five gods but your pally must adhere to the oaths and dogma of your one and only patron deity from which he gets his divine gifts.

hendrack wrote:

You can worship five gods but your pally must adhere to the oaths and dogma of your one and only patron deity from which he gets his divine gifts.

So what would happen If he chance his mind, supported by a good RP ? I guess I'll find it out in game, right ?

Last edited by hendrack on Mon, Sep 27 2010, 22:39 PM, edited 1 time in total.

That's up to the request and the DMs you'll have to write.

Alright, thank you !

I doubt that Kelemvor and Tyr can be a patron of a paladin in the same time. There are paladins in pnp, like the Triadic Knight prestige class: paladins who are granting their divine powers from three gods..but that is the Triad, not sure if it will work with both Kelemvor and Tyr.

It is the god who will accept you, so hendrack is right: ask the DMs

Lutra wrote:

It is the god who will accept you, so hendrack is right: ask the DMs

If I could offer a bit of a distinction... a god doesn't 'accept' paladins, a god 'calls' paladins. Speaking on an IC level, becoming a paladin isn't a choice made by the character, it's a choice made by the god. The character just answers the call. (Or tries to.) If I were a DM, I'd rule against a dual-faith paladin, because there's no reason to suspect that Kelemvor and Tyr get together to decide who to call, or that they'd even agree on who to call if they tried it. Their dogmas diverge too much for them to be in that much agreement on something as important as whom they choose to be their champions in the mortal realm.

Last edited by Silvarus on Mon, Sep 27 2010, 22:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.

A paladin probably can only have a single main patron, but everyone in FR is Polytheistic.

EDIT: Forgot the relevant word. Silly me.

Ah..very true, I guess I did not chose my words correctly...: A paladin is a chosen one of his patron god.

So I presume it would be unnatural to a paladin to "attend a supposed call" incoming from another deity ? Would it be heresy ? :shock:

I imagine they don't tend to get the call.

Tyr and kelmevor seem to have different goals as dieties. I would see POSSIBLY a Hoar -> Tyr type of deal or jergal to kelemvor. But it doesnt make much sence to me from kellie to tyr. or vice versa.

You start serving Kelly, there's no turning back from the dark side.

Lizzie wrote:

If I could offer a bit of a distinction... a god doesn't 'accept' paladins, a god 'calls' paladins. Speaking on an IC level, becoming a paladin isn't a choice made by the character, it's a choice made by the god. The character just answers the call. (Or tries to.) If I were a DM, I'd rule against a dual-faith paladin, because there's no reason to suspect that Kelemvor and Tyr get together to decide who to call, or that they'd even agree on who to call if they tried it. Their dogmas diverge too much for them to be in that much agreement on something as important as whom they choose to be their champions in the mortal realm.

What's your source for this?

It seems like a good explanation, and it has parallels in real world religious history (take OT prophets, for example). It may be that this is common in FR, too. But where is it explicitly stated that this is the case? I am rather suspicious of this statement, and could probably find examples in literature where a boy made the decision to become a squire in a paladin order seemingly on his own initiative.

As for the topic in question: I'm sure it's possible, but it seems so extremely unlikely that I don't see it happening. Especially because of the contradiction Alamut himself (unknowingly) pointed out in the first post. Tyr is god of justice for the living. Kelemvor is god of justice for the dead (in a way; he doesn't actually judge their moral worth). Why do you assume these are identical? To the contrary, a Tyrran paladin may be interested in "balancing the scales" in this life and dealing justice to the living, to the point of death sentence. A paladin of Kelemvor might instead not care so much about mortal justice if he knows your ultimate worth will be judged in death, inevitably. He would not issue a death penalty unless absolutely necessary, I imagine. And moreover, there's simply no reason to judge those about to die, because they're about to meet a much greater Judge.

Not every Tyrran and Kelemvorite thinks like this, of course. But at the core of their faiths, I think there is a crucial difference in their logic of justice.

IronAngel wrote:

Lizzie wrote:

If I could offer a bit of a distinction... a god doesn't 'accept' paladins, a god 'calls' paladins. Speaking on an IC level, becoming a paladin isn't a choice made by the character, it's a choice made by the god. The character just answers the call. (Or tries to.) If I were a DM, I'd rule against a dual-faith paladin, because there's no reason to suspect that Kelemvor and Tyr get together to decide who to call, or that they'd even agree on who to call if they tried it. Their dogmas diverge too much for them to be in that much agreement on something as important as whom they choose to be their champions in the mortal realm.

What's your source for this?

My source is the Player's Handbook.

p.43 wrote:

No one ever chooses to be a paladin. Becoming a paladin is answering a call, accepting one's destiny. No one, no matter how diligent, can become a paladin through practice.

Ah, I hadn't noticed. No mention of that is made in any Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings, though, as far as I've seen. PHB is not a very reliable source when it comes to lore, IMO. I would take it with a grain of salt (or ignore it completely).

Even so, there's no mention of a God choosing you, personally, and calling you. It's a metaphor: the call of destiny. Whether or not that calling is apparent before you become a Paladin, and how exactly it manifests, is left open.

EDIT: I checked The Complete Paladin's Handbook, and it lists several ways to become a paladin, in this order: Religious patronage, divine intervention (being called), government sponsorship, supportive mentor and inherited title. No preference is shown to one or the other, and direct calling is only involved in option 2. In some other options, candidates are picked for training as a child, and they practice in some facility for years to earn the priviledge.

I summary... as I could understand, there is no way a paladin of Tyr to be converted to Kelemvor ? I'm asking that because I don't want to waste my time trying to create a proper RP for that. Unless It would worth a try and the answer for that would come as a consequence of the RP.

That would be quite possible, and even quite logical if he understood the implications of the different kinds of justice the two gods represent, and chose Kelemvor as the final truth instead. What people are saying is that the two gods wouldn't both simultaneously sponsor one: you would have to leave Tyr's service, somehow atone for it and get inducted into Kelemvor's church.

Kelemvor and Tyr

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