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VitrossBeckett
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 Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 1:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Location: Australia GMT+10
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Is a PC's summon an extension of the pc, that the player can give a personality and roleplay, or does the summon count as an npc, only to be run by the dms?
If a PC rp's faithful to lore, deeply and realistically broadens the rp of the personality of the creature involved, and otherwise maintains world realism while adding depth, is that tolerable?
I want to discriiminate between players "roleplaying" monsters to achieve game effects, like claiming an efreet appears as a messenger beside another pc (to my understanding this is illegal) and pure roleplay, developing the character and personality of the summon, giving it a name, and having its opinions being relevant as well as its combat statistics block.
Of course this ties intimately with the reskin request i have running - because the answer here changes what options can be explored with that request.
If theres an existing thread i did not find on this subject, feel free to lob in a link and i'll shut this thread down.
Last edited by VitrossBeckett on Wed, Nov 25 2009, 1:41 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 1:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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you should RP your summon if you can. I haven't played a character that has summons since I found out how to make them speak, so I don't know how it would be to speak for them.
its obviously used already with undead... you don't see paladins ignoring those, but it would be nice to see interaction with other summons. you pulled them from their plane to do your will, but that doesn't mean they have no personality
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Gers
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 1:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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RPing your summon is perfectly alright, especially if you try to make it lore-accurate.
That's the main reason we added the f_voice commands: so you can RP your summons by having it emote and speak.
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 1:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I always RP my summons with me in control. I do try to keep to lore, though.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Gunz
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 3:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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I try to RP my summons whenever I remember to.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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DolphinRacer
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 3:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2009
Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
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Some of the best and funniest RP I've done here and elsewhere has been with peoples summons and familiars. Tae used to tie Sunny's dragon to trees by its tail when it got too annoying.
_________________
Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!
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Halecta
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 4:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Except elementals and golems, they generally dont talk much
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ainjyll
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 4:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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I think it's great. I do it as much as I can remember to.
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 4:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Killed the capitals. No need for them.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 10:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Familiars can speak for their masters within a one mile radius, I just checked with a DM on this.
There is a difference between a Summons and a Familiar. A summons, for instance, if it's undead, couldn't speak, or carry a conversation.
I'm all for realistic representation of our familiars, and I =-love-= the f_voice stuff because it allows me to emote now for Sasha, for example. But considering she's not my familiar, but a summon, Sasha would never speak.
That's the only thing I can't stand... people that RP their summons speaking as if they are a real person, with a mind, etc, when it's not.
Regards, _________________ 
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 10:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Well, I know my summon (reskinned EDK into a Myrlochar) most certainly does have a mind of its own, since it is sentient and the manner in which it came to be. Also, I think anything summoned from Gate has a mind of its own, and I'd imagine creatures such as the efreet and Azer do too. I doubt the act of being summoned strips these creatures of their sentience or ability to speak (although I suppose it could, but I don't have the PHB right in front of me).
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 11:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: I doubt the act of being summoned strips these creatures of their sentience or ability to speak
It does not.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 12:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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With summoned creatures, particulary evil ones, could it be a case of them hating their summoner? Either not talking to, or spitting abuse at, their temporary master? Im not sure how it works, after all they are putting their lives on the lines to serve you, but I could easily imagine a summoned Efreet or a Red Dragon being none too happy about being enslaved like that...?
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 12:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Yurell wrote: Well, I know my summon (reskinned EDK into a Myrlochar) most certainly does have a mind of its own, since it is sentient and the manner in which it came to be. Also, I think anything summoned from Gate has a mind of its own, and I'd imagine creatures such as the efreet and Azer do too. I doubt the act of being summoned strips these creatures of their sentience or ability to speak (although I suppose it could, but I don't have the PHB right in front of me). Did you miss the qualifier? Quote: A summons, for instance, if it's undead, couldn't speak, or carry a conversation.
I'm specifically talking about summons that would not speak, or what not. That kinda goes in line with the "Lore correct RP" thing, Yurell you big spammer you 
Regards, _________________
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 12:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote: With summoned creatures, particulary evil ones, could it be a case of them hating their summoner? Either not talking to, or spitting abuse at, their temporary master? Im not sure how it works, after all they are putting their lives on the lines to serve you, but I could easily imagine a summoned Efreet or a Red Dragon being none too happy about being enslaved like that...?
Very true.IT's actually why EDK is a rather dangerous spell to cast.
A summoning spell means that it must obey any order you give it. It can act freely outside of that, unless it is directly and consciously harmful to the caster. Thus it's often best to make sure you don't piss off your summon too much, else he -may- just find you one day after he's been desummoned/dispelled (Since summons 'killed' while summoned simply return to their home plane, battered and bruised)
_________________
Mostly Retired
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 12:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote: With summoned creatures, particulary evil ones, could it be a case of them hating their summoner? Either not talking to, or spitting abuse at, their temporary master? Im not sure how it works, after all they are putting their lives on the lines to serve you, but I could easily imagine a summoned Efreet or a Red Dragon being none too happy about being enslaved like that...?
I think I would give you a +1 if I ever saw you, or anyone else, RP their Red Dragon Knight like that.
That would be so awesome.
Regards, _________________
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 12:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote: With summoned creatures, particulary evil ones, could it be a case of them hating their summoner? Either not talking to, or spitting abuse at, their temporary master? Im not sure how it works, after all they are putting their lives on the lines to serve you, but I could easily imagine a summoned Efreet or a Red Dragon being none too happy about being enslaved like that...?
I should think he'd be disinclined to offer you any pearls of wisdom, except maybe where to find great treasure in a place where he'll be when not summoned by you. I can't imagine the summoned creatures named will be particularly impressed at all with their forced servitude.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 12:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Yurell wrote:
I should think he'd be disinclined to offer you any pearls of wisdom, except maybe where to find great treasure in a place where he'll be when not summoned by you. I can't imagine the summoned creatures named will be particularly impressed at all with their forced servitude.
Hence why undead make such great summons!
*snicker*
Regards, _________________
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 13:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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FA_Frey_XC wrote: -Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote: With summoned creatures, particulary evil ones, could it be a case of them hating their summoner? Either not talking to, or spitting abuse at, their temporary master? Im not sure how it works, after all they are putting their lives on the lines to serve you, but I could easily imagine a summoned Efreet or a Red Dragon being none too happy about being enslaved like that...? I think I would give you a +1 if I ever saw you, or anyone else, RP their Red Dragon Knight like that. That would be so awesome. Unfortunately nothing my character is able to summon can talk!
Another idea is that if you get into a hostile situation with someone who has a Dragon backing them up....You could talk to the dragon, play up to its vanity, and ask them not to fight you (As obviously, fighting such a perfect beast will result in your dismemberment), instead stand aside and let its master die, so it can be released from its bondage. 
Obviously, a good sport is required, but it could be fun!
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Magiros
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 15:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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How I have understood is that the summoned creature is forced to serve the caster, once it is summoned and command given, it can't work against it.
Anyhow, so I use f_command when I speak trough me summon.. or what? <.<
_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm
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ainjyll
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 17:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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In the shout channel type
f_Voice
then either C (Companion), S (Summons) or F (Familiar).
_________________ "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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DolphinRacer
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Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009, 17:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2009
Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
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Magiros wrote: How I have understood is that the summoned creature is forced to serve the caster, once it is summoned and command given, it can't work against it.
Anyhow, so I use f_command when I speak trough me summon.. or what? <.<
Technically not entirely true. Potentially a botched summon can cause the creature to attack you if you aren't careful. Oh and some summons may not actively attack you but the creature type may be inclined to try to get you into trouble.
_________________
Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 0:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Spell malfunctions happen. It's possible to have a run away EDK or a run away Mummy or a run away Elemental, etc. etc.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 1:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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I always sort of assumed most summons were (if non evil and arcane) some sort of tradeof between caster and summon, and if divinely summoned, a gift from ones god, wherein summon and caster are working together for a similar goal.
So allies, I suppose.
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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tsukasa1991
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 2:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
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i always role play my summons. very rarely are they simple combat machines. Maggot's dog summon is part of his multiple personalities so he talks to it often. i hate when im talking to someone with a summon ( not an undead perse) and it just stands there... not emoting... a good shot at great RP lost.
_________________
Plays-
Maggot Bucktooth (Retired)
Giando Paladrious (Retired)
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DolphinRacer
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 3:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2009
Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
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I love people who summon undead and then try to explain to me how its not an undead. It's so cute. I don't care if you summoned it from another plane, or it popped out of the ground. A zombie is a zombie.
And I used to get a kick out of RPing my undead summons, particularly zombies. I made them ooze on peoples carpets. *nod nod*
_________________
Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 6:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Spell malfunctions happen. It's possible to have a run away EDK or a run away Mummy or a run away Elemental, etc. etc.
Not... really. The only time this happens is generally with Planar Binding spells gone wrong. It's why Bioware Gate summons a hostile Balor unless you're Prot-Evil'd.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 9:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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If an Elemental makes a will save against your summoning, you summon a hostile, rampaging and angry kid on to Toril. True story. Kinda assumed it would be the same for the Dragons Knights and other summons, I admit.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 10:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 16:08 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Yep. The only thing I recall with "summonings going awry" or the creature being summoned having complete conrtoll of itself is with ritual summonings. You know, like fiends, demons, etc. Not just your regular summoning magic. Perhaps a better term for summoning like that is "calling" a creature... I could have sworn I've heard that used in D&D before. *shrug*
I must admit, it would be nice to be able to summon like a Primal Elemental, some huge titan-esque creature of air/earth/fire/water, but it having a will of its own. Sort of "summon this, then get the hell away." 
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, Nov 26 2009, 19:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Bah, nvm. I couldn't find where it said that till I looked at the FR Wiki. The false information still haunts me from time to time, apparently.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Guxx
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Posted: Fri, Nov 27 2009, 5:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Use to be in 2nd edition mages summoning elementals had to make a check against them to retain control of it. Not sure if it was the same for druids or not.
Atleast that's how I remember it from BG, so it may not be entirely accurate.
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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