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When creating a Fighter/bard/PM would you need 20 Intel or 20 Charisma for Epic mage armor or can you simply pick one?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_spell:_epic_mage_armor
Following the wiki, you need to be level 21, have 26 spellcraft and have 15 pm levels.
As long as you meet those standards, you can just pick it up.

Dont i need 20 Cha , Intel or Wisdom on Amia to cast epic spells ? Atleast that's what it says on the Epic summon part
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&p=1121583#p1121583

For a basic caster (Either the Weave or Divine) a Wizard requires 21 levels of (caster) class, Spellcraft depending on how high, and 20+ STAT depending which class you've taken, I believe.

Yea but a Bard's Primary is Charisma and a Pm's is Intel.....so confusing

Darkblade wrote:

Yea but a Bard's Primary is Charisma and a Pm's is Intel.....so confusing

Its 20 cha you need for it.

Actually, it's neither. So long as you meet the spellcraft requirement, you'll be able to take an epic spell as your level 16 Palemaster feat regardless of Ability score.

So yeah, this:

Dergaii wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_spell:_epic_mage_armor
Following the wiki, you need to be level 21, have 26 spellcraft and have 15 pm levels.
As long as you meet those standards, you can just pick it up.

Yea but dont Amia forces you to take 20 intel,wisdom,cha to cast epic spells as its stated under Epic summons, or dose that only count towards Epic summons?

Darkblade wrote:

Yea but a Bard's Primary is Charisma and a Pm's is Intel.....so confusing

I may be confused but Bards have nothing to do with Epic spells mate.

I thought that the PM is depending on the primary caster ability, thus in the case of a bard it is charisma, no?

And a bard can cast epic spells if they take PM

15 PM lvl's give you Epic spells , but that's not the point, in STANDARD nwn i could simply take Epic mage armor at pm lvl 15, but reading up on the changes made here, you apparently need 20 cha,intel or wisdom to cast epic spells on amia so i'm confused at witch one i have to bump to 20 in a Fghiter/bard/PM build ! Or can i just pick one ? :mrgreen:

i totally get what you are saying. i don't think PM levels consider Bard as caster levels so you wouldn't be able to take EMA or anything else epic spell wise. when a sorc does it then yeah it's based off of charisma for sure, because palemaster count's that as a caster class.. though as a sorc you don't get the extra spell slots because that is based off of intelligence. hope that helps. basically what i'm saying is the pm levels will function off of intelligence and would not count charisma as a caster's stat at all in the build you are talking about.

Ps. I could have totally gotten everything i just said wrong. pretty sure though.

You can get EMA with Bard/PM at 15 PM.. I have one with it. Normally you would not need 20 cha, that is true, but on Amia, you do. I know someone that tried the same build as me, except they eschewed Cha.. they could not take it.

So to answer OP again... As someone with a similar PC... You need 20 Cha, not Int., and 15 PM levels. Then you get your EMA.

You do need the 20 CHA to get epic spells to work on Amia for a bard/PM, yes.

I honestly didn't know a bard even with Pm could get epic spells idk why. Now I know. Thanks.

I seem to have ignored the Amian specific requirements. Though I am happy they are in place, it makes much more sense this way, since epic spells are tenth circle or up.

Raua wrote:

Actually, it's neither. So long as you meet the spellcraft requirement, you'll be able to take an epic spell as your level 16 Palemaster feat regardless of Ability score.

So yeah, this:

Dergaii wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_spell:_epic_mage_armor
Following the wiki, you need to be level 21, have 26 spellcraft and have 15 pm levels.
As long as you meet those standards, you can just pick it up.

This is wrong. It is 20 CHA if you're a bard/sorc, 20 INT if you're a wizard, and 20 WIS if you're acleric or druid.

Here's a nitpicky related question for the epic spell requirements (though not PM related).

Do you need STAT 20 to pick the epic spell feat or just to cast it?

Reason for asking: I can only pick my epic spell feat at a level with STAT 18. In vanilla, that works, and I'll eventually have STAT 20 to cast it (as needed on Amia for sure). I'll find the answer eventually, but I level really, really slowly. And maybe my build is already screwed if I can't even select the feat ...

Has anyone tried this or knows how the check is implemented?

Thanks!
Ts

I want to say you can pick it even if you don't meet the stat prereq at the time. Pretty sure the check is upon casting the spell, and not selecting the feat. But I've never done so to be able to say for absolute certain.

Pretty sure you can't pick it unless you meet the stat requirement. I have a memory of making a similar mistake and not having the option at all.

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