AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Clarifications please! Bladesinger and Spellsword?

I have created a new Elven character who I am making my main. She is a Spellsword, but... I have seen the term Bladesinger used to refer to what appears to be Elven Spellswords. Then, I've seen Bladesinger used in almost an Elven Paladin-like manner. I'm curious to know the details of what a Bladesinger is on Amia, what is required to become one, and if a special request is needed.

I have seen conflicting information on the forum regarding this. Some have said you can call yourself a Bladesinger with no request so long as you don't claim any abilities your character levels don't grant you, yet, I did find at least one request for the Bladesinger PRC.

I've read the Wiki's, I've done some research, so, really what I want to know is how the DM Team and in general, the community of Amia view Elven Spellsword vs Bladesinger, as in, the differences and requirements and expectations of each.

Thank you, as this information will go a long way toward forming my character

.

-B

Bladesinger is actual DnD class, if it would appear in NWN it would be a prestige one. we have atm server Couple of Bladesingers, Selikean Durothil being one (as far as i know), im not sure of the players forum account, but he would be one to ask.

i used to play, and still do (inactively) a fighter / Mage combo as bladesinger.

it has more to do with how you play your character... in elven society bladesingers can be perhaps related to Paladins in human, they specialize in combat differently but they are the protectors of elven people, Heroes, and guardians.

there are a lot of Lore monkeys around to give you detailed information. i allways direct everyone to Iron Angel with questions of Lore about everything, but he might be gone since ive not seen him in a while. im sure someone hits you soon about this.

meanwhile i suggest doing some google search about Bladesingers.

You do not need a request to play a Bladesinger. If you want custom abilities, though, you need to request them. (I think someone got a combat style recently, and my PC has a custom spell.) We don't really enforce any specific fighting-style, either. In NWN you can cast spells even if you wield something two-handed, so there's no IC reason they couldn't use a greatsword, for example. DMs may not let you get custom DC goodies based on the PnP Prestige Class if you don't adhere to its restrictions, of course, but if you don't want to add your Int modifier to AC with a bazillion DCs it's not much of an issue.

The sources offer slightly conflicting information; the 3e Prestige Class is more restricted than the lore supports (in weapon choice particularly), so take it as one specific kind of Bladesinger. What you want, for the background, is the Complete Book of Elves. Here's what it says:

Quote:

Bladesong Fighting Style
Dedicated elf warriors take their craft seriously
enough to have created a uniquely elven
fighting style. Unlike the martial arts of other
races, the elven fighting style, also known as
the bladesong, emphasizes beauty and economy
of movement over sheer destructive
power. However, the elven bladesong is deceptively
dangerous, for all its seeming gentleness
and apparent grace.
There are two types of bladesingers: those
who learn it as an additional skill (described
below), and those who have made it their
lives. Those in this second category are
known as Bladesingers, and they are de-
scribed in Chapter Ten.
Bladesong is so named for several reasons.
The first and most obvious is because of the
whistling of the blade as it slices through the
air when this style of fighting is used. The second
is for the haunting, wordless tune many
of its practitioners sing as they fight.
Those who practice the bladesong appear as
if they are dancing when they fight. Their
movements seem misleadingly slow and elegant,
deflecting opponents' blades while lazily
drifting back to score hits themselves. The
technique requires, above all, misdirection
and subtlety. The bladesingers do not believe
in smashing blows or strong and crushing offense,
but rather in guiding their opponents to
anticipate a different attack entirely, thus
overbalancing the foe and making him seem
clumsy.
Bladesinging can be done with any Smallor
Medium-sized melee weapon, although the
majority of practitioners practice their art
with the sword. Due to the awkwardness of
polearms and two-handed weapons, there are
no known students of bladesinging proficient
in these weapons.
To take advantage of the bladesinging technical
benefits, the character (who must be a
member of the warrior, priest, rogue, or warrior/
mage classes) must devote at least two
weapon proficiency slots to the style. Otherwise,
the character can gain no benefits from
the technique. This cost does not include the
initial slot devoted to learning rudimentary
use of the weapon, so the total cost is three
weapon slots.
Obviously, rogues and priests cannot pick
up this technique until they reach the 4th level
or higher, since they start out with only two
weapon proficiency slots and don't acquire a
third until having progressed in levels. (As
noted above, mages cannot learn this style at
all.) Even if rogues and priests devote all their
initial slots to a weapon and the first half of
the bladesong proficiency, they must take a
significant amount of time away from adventuring
to learn the second half. Unless their
companions are remarkably understanding [My PDF is messy here, can't copy-paste. Basically says elves never teach this to non-elves and they don't have the time to learn anyway.]

And some choice quotes from the character creation kit chapter:

Quote:

The Bladesinger is always identifiable by his weapon of choice. Such an
item is always ornate and beautiful, enhancing
the Bladesinger's appearance in battle.
Distinctive Appearance. Not only are
they easily identifiable by their weapon of
choice and catlike grace, Bladesingers are decorated
with their weapon guilds distinctive
tattoo. Each guild has a separate and unique
tattoo depicting its style of weapon through
an animal representation. Long swords are often
represented by great cats such as lions or
panthers, a whip would be shown as a striking
snake, and so forth.

I have called them the elven paladins because they, too, have a code: they must always advance the cause of elvendom and help an elf in need. Unless the elf is proven to be an enemy of the People, they must sacrifice their life and limb to save his life. However, it is not like the immediate divine retribution for paladins: the bladesinger is free to determine if there really is an elf in danger, and they have often become too careful and skeptical due to attempts of deception and illusion and end up letting elves get hurt. (Paraphrasing Complete Book of Elves here.)

A Wizards article offers the Duskblade Prestige Class as an alternate, dark tradition of Bladesingers in the Realms, which shows that the concept of the class (if not all the specific powers) can have wider application:
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp? ... c/20070228

I don't remember which book the 3e Prestige Class is in. It has the powers but very little lore, and since you don't get the powers in Amia anyway, it's not terribly essential. You can try to Google it, though.

Here's an IC take on it:
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=46639

EDIT: I think there are two 3e versions; one in Complete Warrior and one in Races of Faerûn. Don't recall if there are significant differences between the two or if it's just a reprint.

Wow... thanks Iron. I read everything you wrote and the pages you included... very interesting.

One question though.... would a Bladesinger ever use a shield? I mean, sure, I could request the PrC officially, though I would need to rebuild already (feat choices from what I see), but, could she still call herself a Bladesinger and use a shield? I would think not, but I wanted to hear your thoughts.

I was considering her saying "Aspiring Bladesinger", for... without a mentor, she really wouldn't become one, and without the proper training, she really is just a spellblade. Not sure. Maybe she will just work to be the best damn Elven Spellblade she can be! :wink:

Thanks again!

Mine occasionally used a shield (buckler and the green round medium shield when we got the model, because it was pretty; would go back to buckler now that we have decent models though). I felt a little bit dirty, but his magic was bardic and the 0ASF shield did not interfere with it. The real thing with the one-handed style is that you needed, in PnP, a free hand to cast spells. That's not true IC in NWN's reality.

But then, my Bladesinger did not, mechanically, have that much in common with the PrC anyway. He was a Dex-based bard/fighter. The custom spell I got was bladesinger-themed but not directly ripped from the PrC's repertoire. I think it's reasonable to use a shield, both IC and OOC, as long as you don't have access to the thing that makes Bladesingers work without shield: the Int bonus to AC. Because from a design perspective, that's what the class is about; it's an arcane Duelist.

It is a balance issue more than it is a lore issue. Duskblades are not mechanically Bladesingers, but they are a Bladesinger tradition IC, so I don't see why you could not make your own tradition. More than being confined to a single style, I see bladesingers as followers of their own particular traditions, organized in lodges, symbolized by a spirit animal. A Turtle Bladesinger, for example, could easily go for a leisurely, defensive style with a light shield.

That said: as much as I want to argue otherwise (same for two-handed weapons) and as much as it's sensible lorewise, neither the 3e PrC nor the 2e fighting style use shields. So make of it what you will.

hi guys im newbie in this game , i would like to ask a question if its okay , what kind of weapon is bladesinger and spellsword , is it the highest level of all weapons ??

Not sure I understand your question. Typically, a bladesinger uses a longsword or rapier, but what do you mean by level of weapon?

I used to play a Blade singer 'back in the day', that is, when it came out as a class in 2nd ed.
http://dndtools.eu/classes/bladesinger/
This is the class I'm familiar with when I played it. This is a 3rd ed take on it of course, but it's very close.

Like all things d&d, the lore can be argued seven ways to Sunday, and I'm no lore monkey, so I'll just let that part be for now.

RheinJie wrote:

hi guys im newbie in this game , i would like to ask a question if its okay , what kind of weapon is bladesinger and spellsword , is it the highest level of all weapons ??

No you got it all wrong

it's okey though! bladesinger and spellswords are two prestige classes in d&d, however they are not presented in NWN so people uses multiclassing instead to represent the classes in game, usually with a mix of wizard or sorceror and fighter classes.

About the only thing one needs to know is a Bladesinger is a spellsword who is an elf, uses a longsword or rapier in one hand and nothing in the other, and wears light armor. Taking Maximize Spell to represent Song of Celerity is a good idea too. Those are the hallmarks of the class, really.

Mechanically, yes, however they follow a code, are trained for years, often in a one on one scenario. I see a Bladesinger as a Spellblade with a code of honor and some specialized skills.

bidocks wrote:

Then, I've seen Bladesinger used in almost an Elven Paladin-like manner.

When it comes to the Paladin-ness you might see a Bladesinger display, it's not far from the truth. For example;

Yossarin wrote:

In its mores and strictures, rituals and even knightly aesthetics, paladinhood is a very human institution. If you were to ask an elven scholar or theologian about paladins, he might claim there are none serving the Seldarine; the elven gods and peoples have their champions, but they are not to be confused with human paladins. In part, this is clearly true: in elven society, many of the typical ”paladin” roles and tasks are fulfilled by divine champions and, most notably, bladesingers.

That was found in the Lore topic about Paladins of various faiths.

Bladesingers and Divine Champions can easily be mistaken for Elven Paladins. My own Divine Champion of Corellon was thought to be a Paladin for a very long time by a few people, until the Quintessence came about and it was found out she couldn't cast Paladin spells. As it's said in the Lore thread, Bladesingers, along with Divine Champions, usually take on the roles of Paladins. Three vastly different classes mechanically, yes, but at their core, they represent the paragon of what that Faith would be, or in this case, what an Elf would be in terms of Elven customs, religion, and society.

Well, that's my take on it at least.

Clarifications please! Bladesinger and Spellsword?

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