AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

So, I know nothing about how to approach building a character in a max-level 30 environment. I've always played with level 40 builds, that's really all I know (and I don't even know much at all)

That or it was max level 4 and my character is going to die anyway so who gives a what (<3 ZS servers.)

So, getting to the point, I look to the forum and discussions there-in to see what I can find out about the many facets of actually building a useful toon.

Usually, I just do the following:

1) Build my RP concept, and base every thing I do with leveling upon that.
That is, I decide who I want my character to be, their possible story arc, and what builds I can make out of them. I take into consideration "what if's" that may cause me to go a different route in terms of building. That doesn't mean I go about making an assassin, character falls in love with a kitten, and the next day he is a Paladin, smiting all the evil kitten slayers of the land.

2) Derp around. Gear will come, so will exp, so will gold, so will groups. Have fun and the eventual "end-game" shall arrive in tow.

3) Ultimately, I don't need a list. I focus on RP. That's why I play RP servers.

but...

Here's what I'm worried about.
The more I read the forums, the more I get a feeling of...

this.

I get the same feeling about class builds, too.
Discuss?

There are plenty of players who min/max neither their characters nor their gear. I am not one of them, but I know there are a lot of them and they appear to still have a great time on the server. I think the answer, or perhaps the question, is more subjective than objective. Min/max'ing stats and gear can and often does provide a competitive advantage in mechanical conflict, but it can prove tiresome and uninspiring, too. If you perceive not min/max'ing, or worse, ever possibly losing a conflict as a bad time and do not mind the drudgery of min/max'ing your stats and gear, go for it. If variety is your spice of life or if you just don't give a shit and don't mind being in a situation where your build is not optimal, then you have the freedom to build your character in the way Pee Wee Herman built his Breakfast Machine.

In other words, it really depends upon your personal expectations.

Gonna say that most builds can assure they'll be able to get the +12 cap on primary stats, easy, and then from there you can pick and choose from the common stuff like +saves, damage resists, and jucier goods like specific feats or skills.

If you take a look on the left bar, you'll see "Mythal Crafting System" which gives you some information about what PCs can make with their own found loot, providing you or someone you know has spellcraft, craft weapon, or craft armor (easy folks to find for a price.) On top of this, the module has most things you'd think of needing aside from OP stuff like permanent Haste.

Then, of course, comes "end game" epic loot which is predominantly stronger versions of stuff found elsewhere in the module and other exotic trinkets. Finally, the server has a request system that operates off "Dreamcoins" gained through roleplay which can be spent on custom items (examples of which you can view in the request forum.)

All in all, go with what's going to get the RP you want and be flexible for the best time. The gear will be there to support most anything, and it's your class/feat/etc choices that will make or break you. Solo, anyway.

Let me add the caveat then....

I fully support anyone who wants to do this and not worry about min maxing who takes all the social skills, etc.

But then don't be the person who spams the persuade or bluff rolls in DM events and is super hero there then bitch about your low saves/damage/hp/strength/discipline etc when the mobs overrunneth.

My main has max persuade and I cant max his saves or some other things I'd like to because I've devoted all the slots on his gear to taunt because I'm an idiot. My point is choose your role and don't complain when you're not the other guy!

The problem is that often people are plainly ignoring your skill rolls. I've seen epic characters ignoring my merchant's appraise (he has epic skill focus in appraise btw) where there difference in price would've been 2,500 gold "Not that I do not have the money, but I am not going to be overcharged.". And that's just appraise. Imagine someone rolling intimidate against your epic villain, or persuade against your super smart wizard. On the other hand, people don't get to ignore your fort save, or your strength modifier.

But we digress. Just like the build, your gear is very important. I've had a monk in the Church of Bane, crappy RP build, crappy gear (due to the lack of money), but I had as much fun as I'm having on my super power, all-epic-stuff, palemaster. So imho, the gear is just like the build. If your character would IC do everything he can in order to attain better gear for any number of reasons, then you should go for it. If he wouldn't care as much about the gear, but would rather spend his time.. dunno.. mining iron or writing poems.. then you will have just as much fun.

I know people in Tarkuul for instance, whose builds are a horrible mess. Yet it is the RP that counts not the ability to whack something in the face. It's all about the concept.

Last edited by Uberuce on Thu, Feb 13 2014, 10:40 AM, edited 3 times in total.

I will do my best to ignore social skill rolls against my characters. I'm not an NPC, and I don't consider a dicebag to be roleplay.

When I say I'll do my best to ignore them, what I mean is I'll try not to take the hump and judge the actual roleplay ie words appearing above the other character's head more harshly that I otherwise would. I certainly won't just look at the 100 in the dicebag dialogue and turn into a robot.

I doubt I'm very good at that, so really it'd be better if you just RP'd. That does of course mean that my characters can be verbally outdone by players with good wordsmithery and low skilled builds, but that means I've been in the presence of good RP, so I am happy as the proverbial shitty pig.

Your comparison to Fort/STR mod is invalid. The server doesn't, shouldn't, physically and legally cannot act as a conduit for martial and magical combat between players, so that really does need to be handled by the game engine but the server can transfer roleplay.

Back to the OT:
For PvP against equally skilled players you'll need a top-notch build and the best epic drop gear to have an advantage. The 'epic drop' gear is also refererred to as the +5bin and is what that Pc Auction forum is mostly about. They drop from the epic level bosses that you'll start seeing at the end of dungeons from about level 18 upwards, and many level 30 players spend several hours or tens of hours a week running round each one to kit themselves out. Used to do that, but I get bored shitless after an hour or two, tops, these days.
The killer is the 'equally skilled players' bit. Disparities in skill that overrule build/gear quality are common.

For soloing the hardest areas and bosses you'll need a top-notch build and the best shop-bought gear.

If you're in party or willing to let the last two or three areas stay off-limits for mano a mobbo jaunts, you still need to pay attention to what you're wearing, but you can play anything that isn't hopelessly broken. Running about in the fire-themed dungeons as an INT-based Barbarian and wearing no fire resistance gear at all is what I mean by hopelessly borked and inattentive to gear.

There's really no need to worry about this in advance. Gear comes and you'll learn as you go. I suck at gearing up myself, because I never seem to end up in PvP (that's what you get for playing a loser, I guess) and haven't bothered to max saves at the expense of stats, skills, resistances and spell slots. The module still seems pretty easy to me. I can even solo an epic boss at 25 (or am I 26?), but usually you'll party anyway.

PvP is a different beast, of course. When you're up against other players, they will obviously have the edge if they've optimized their gear set to beat you better than you have. But that's sort of the whole point: the better player/character wins.

When you're at max level and feel you need to do better, I guess you could ask for help in optimizing your gear in the build topic. I really should do that myself, because I am hopeless.

Uberuce wrote:

I will do my best to ignore social skill rolls against my characters. I'm not an NPC, and I don't consider a dicebag to be roleplay.

I have this rule when I'm DMing PnP for my players. If you want to be able to use social skill rolls against NPC, then expect them to use the same on you. You are not immune.

Expecting a Cleric of Bane to cave like a sissy because your Cyricist rolled high intimidate - no. Getting 2,500 gp. more on top of 50,000 gp. - ignoring an epic feat investment into a character for pure RP, it's just tasteless move, from my point of view.

One could be hindering the character concept, the other one is just adding some flavor. Depending on the character of mine I will allow various rolls. I won't allow intimidate on my Banite, because he fears only Bane and his superiors, but I will allow intimidate on my rogue. The point of the server is RP interaction, not "my character pwnz". Sometimes your character should be at loss for the sake of being a sport and producing some RP. Heck I invested in Listen on my toon, just to have a way of preventing bluff and persuade rolls.

I have made gearing up part of my RP on my Salandran, and she is busy working hard in game doing every little job she can in addition to the obvious healing duties in order to scrimp and save to just get enough gold together to mount a credible attack on the auction forums.

I have no intention of power building either the character or the gear but if an item comes to her attention ICly that might help her be a better healer for example she might pursue it ICly.

All of my character builds are RP based and will not be mechanically the most uber but as I have little desire in mechanical pvp with the excel spread sheet nerd brigade who will know how to squeeze every little ounce of pvp powa from their builds, its not much of a handicap imo. But that's just me

I guess it comes down to this, if you enter the gear race you best play in Amia with your spread sheet open and calculate your every advantage and grind the gear accordingly for your fellow gear heads are surely doing the same.

Or you can just RP your little heart out and give two poohs as to the gear heads and their inevitable godmod RP (you know, where the 2 foot tall kobold keeps poking you with a stick next to a city guard to provoke a pvp battle the kobold knows he will win, because even if he looses the mechanical battle he will ooc you to death for ignoring the guard blah blah blah

)

Anyway I vote for RP and say to you "break a leg", then come find Abernathy Hearthart as she can fix it for you....for a modest *coughs* donation

It also quite depends on what class you play. I feel a wizard/ sorc and possibly a cleric needs a lot less gold to get the gear needed then a melee character would.

I concur that the top tier items will mostly make a big differance in pvp. In pvm the effect is felt much less, especially if you don't have the urge to be able to solo things and team up (Who needs a +5 sword when your friendly caster can make it +5 easily.)

All in all, I wouldn't worry about gear.

Can't comment on the class question, I never had a lv 30 character on Amia.

In case this is your subtle way of fishing for tips, here's a pro one: It's common sense, and furthermore, RP-sense to help out a bud in need. You don't play a lawful good Paladin with INT 14, CHA 14, and WIS 14 without tipping off a bro getting his buttocks bruised by a flock of crazy-clubbing ogres about a handy low-cost belt you can acquire from the dwarves of Brogendenstein that's just a 250gp boatride away. From thereon out your clubbing lifestyle will be easy-peasy. The same goes other way round, "How on earth are you not getting your buttocks bruised like I am, Sir Knight? There seems to be something very bouncebackable about your pelvis."

Why I think this is relevant, is because you cannot exclude RP from PvM and vice versa. The min/max isn't a wholly forgettable detail of the game, it's in the spirit of the game if you play a character who wants to do one's bit instead of wearing nappies.

You will also come across people, like some mentioned here, who will make sacrifices for the roleplay of others. For example, I am currently involved with a character who has odd tastes and will dump large amounts of gold on people for strange items (keeping potential level disparities in mind.) Does it or should it happen all the time? No, but it happens, and the culture of creating RP from others that one also benefits from is... healthy.

Also, your gear won't help you RP better, but I have seen people RP themselves into some pretty sweet gear!

When I started on Amia nearly a decade ago I did not have a grasp on how to build a character well. Yet neither the lack of power of the build, nor the lack of noteworthy gear ever diminished my ability to take part in enjoyable roleplay, hunts or dm plots and events. Over time I simply learned through experience and players who enjoyed helping me out how to better gear my character, what tactics to use in PvM and PvP and the like.

In all this time I have only had a single character who has been geared in any noteworthy manner. Epic Gear, in my opinion, is something you should simply look at as something you can slowly build up over time, if you are interrested in it at all. It gives you something additional to do. And it is even more enjoyable, if instead of trying to desperately to solo hunt, you do so in a party and rp while you do so.

There might be a few people who can more quickly aquire such gear by knowing the mechanics well and putting in an enormous time to grind bosses quickly, but those tend to be the minority. Your character just started on amia a few days ago (judging from your account). Of course there will be some distance between him, and those veteran adventurers who have roamed the lands for quests, glory and wealth since years.

And finally, there have been so many memorable, influential, and exceptional characters around Amia that neither were build or geared for combat.

I'll add that the word of an established character with connections forged in rp often carries much more weight then one loaded with epic gear who tends to focus on bosshunts.

Not that one is inherantly better then the other mind, its doing what you like best.

Min-maxing shouldn't matter in a game like Amia. It's just another way of using social rolls to get what someone wants in RP, and it's just as bad as using dice in every RP situation.

Hudson wrote:

I'll add that the word of an established character with connections forged in rp often carries much more weight then one loaded with epic gear who tends to focus on bosshunts.

Not that one is inherantly better then the other mind, its doing what you like best.

WHAT!? I can't hear you from the top of my mountain of epic loot and unnecessary items I won't ever sell!
Oh, right. I didn't really hunted for all that stuff. I just happen to be the Morgan and Sons of my character's friends.

Back to being constructive: It was said above: Build what you want to do. If you want to be an epic badass fighter, build for it. If you want to take a supportive role, build for it. If you want to stay in a freaking town and be the true-est of all bards and sing and be a social mastermind, build for it, but never expect to do something that is outside your character. Not OOCly, at least. ICly your character will fall down and stand up a thousand times before he gets to say "I shouldn't do that" or "I wonder what happens if next time I land with the butt instead of the face...?". Unless his wisdom score is damn high and he can see it coming.

One day you may reach level 30, yes, and perhaps your build sucks in combat because your character is actually a monk/sorcerer/druid. You can either live with it and RP the character as what he is, or evolve further. Rebuilds are not looked down in Amia.

Dead wrote:

The problem is that often people are plainly ignoring your skill rolls. I've seen epic characters ignoring my merchant's appraise (he has epic skill focus in appraise btw) where there difference in price would've been 2,500 gold "Not that I do not have the money, but I am not going to be overcharged.". And that's just appraise. Imagine someone rolling intimidate against your epic villain, or persuade against your super smart wizard. On the other hand, people don't get to ignore your fort save, or your strength modifier.

Gonna have to disagree with you here, you don't have any solid footing when making this argument at all. D&D in all incarnations explicitly always states social skills which can affect roleplaying or decision making _never_ ever affect PCs and for good reason. It's a roleplaying game, not a roll playing game. Otherwise, I'd just make a bard, geek the heck out of my persuade and persistently charm and subsequently own every PC on the island.

To the OP, as long as your character is reasonably playable, you'll be usable even in the endgame. So long as you're not something like an int-based druid, you will serve well in a party. Anyone can join a party and hunt epic bosses or simply make coin and buy the loot via auction just fine.

You have gotten some very good replies in the topic already but my few cents!

There are a ton of nice players on the server that give out epic loot as if it was nothing.

Generally though if you keep active and stick to it you will get geared in time =)

If you are conerned about gear, pick classes such as Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric/Druid that do not rely upon it as much. Mundane classes are fairly hard to play without good stuff!

I appreciate all the feedback, folks.
I feel motivated, now!

I personally like fighters because they often only have 1-2 stats to boost. (STR/CON) that leaves a lot of room for fortitude and the likes.

Dead wrote:

Uberuce wrote:

I will do my best to ignore social skill rolls against my characters. I'm not an NPC, and I don't consider a dicebag to be roleplay.

I have this rule when I'm DMing PnP for my players. If you want to be able to use social skill rolls against NPC, then expect them to use the same on you. You are not immune.

Do walls get to make reflex saves whenever someone tries to climb them?
Social skills work on npcs, not pcs. You can of course homebrew whatever you want in your own sessions, but don't expect people to go with it when it's stated to not work on pcs.

Hurtig 40 fortitude isn't to hard either.
A full fortitude class (cleric, barbarian,fighter, monk, arcane archer etc) get 12 from 1-20 then another 5 20-30.
That's 17 so far + 5 from fortitude cloak. That's 22

Now add +3 fort with the mythal system on your gear until you hit 38/39 fortitude.

Most of my builds suck. And I've been here for like seven years!

The Subject of "Gearing Up"

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