Why you little bastard! *smirks*
I didn't care about your reasoning just the no scythe part.
Not that it matters a whole lot to me. I'll still call them all farmers and keep on happily playing.

Btw thanks sYusan for that picture of a proper war scythe.

If I have the strength to heft a Buick w/ ease, wielding a scythe 1 handed is nothing. Not to mention I can simply use my hip/side for torque.

Crying about realism in a game full of situations that are impossible to even produce IRL is grasping at straws desperately. If people were such realists, we'd never see a tower shield in combat.

And "abuse" is taking advantage of an exploit in code for an unintended, advantageous result. Abuse isn't building well.

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Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)

Two words : Greek phalanxes. And it is just an example.

But no matter. It is a fantasy game, I accept the premise. Do a one handed scythe.

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Daegan Van'Straaten - Duty to Helm is above all!

I've got the old monkey grip widget on one of my toons, the one you paid 25 DCs for back in the day with nil penalties. Because of that, I know how powerful an exploit it is. Even if the modern version of the monkey grip widget has some penalties which the old one didn't, it is still an extremely powerful boon.

Some weapons are just not meant to be single handed. The scythe is on the top of that list.

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

Yeah, to me a monkey grip scythe combo is just too powerful. I don't think it's really balanced, what with Monkey Grip being OP anyways. I mean, the negatives are paltry, you can pick which ones you want so they hurt you the least and then the slots on your shield can make up for some of them soo... yeah it's just ridiculous regardless.

But, whatever.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Okay.

Then how balanced are most of the custom made spells then... Some of the custom made Cleric haste spells, or the Willsave, Fortsave, Reflex save custom made spells that also check for spell resistance for the fourth effect.

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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

This horse has been flogged

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

A comparison of a monkey-grip scythe weapon master's damage to a scimitar weapon master's damage. The calculations were done assuming that either had the best weapons they could have using the available epic drops and the Mythal crafting system, and that they monkey-grip weapon master chose -1 damage as their penalty from the second list. The build used for the purpose of the calculations was 12 fighter, 16 weapon master, 2 rogue.

The insinuation that there is a large discrepancy between the power of a scythe weapon master using monkey-grip and a standard scimitar weapon master is fairly misleading. The summation of the monkey-grip scythe weapon master's actual differences from a scimitar weapon master is as follows:

4 more damage per flurry.
Large weapon for the purposes of disarm attempts as well as devastating critical's duration
An additional power slot for the purpose of the Mythal crafting system
One of the drawbacks detailed in list 1 of the monkey-grip style penalty section
Dual-damage type for the purpose of bypassing immunities and resistances

For the sake of illustrating the inherent difference of the base items without the superior properties (namely the 3d6 massive criticals) of the warforged scythe to bias the evaluation, here's the comparison using identical weapons (+5 enhancement, keen, 1d10 bonus damage, 1d6 massive criticals), though still taking -1 damage as a bonded weapon property on the scythe. Under these circumstances, the differences of a monkey-grip scythe weapon master from a scimitar weapon master are as detailed below:

Between 6 and 0 damage fewer per flurry on targets with 50 to 63 AC
Negligible difference in damage unless target has 84 or higher AC; difference becomes negligible again after 93 AC
Large weapon for the purposes of disarm attempts as well as devastating critical's duration
An additional power slot for the purpose of the Mythal crafting system
One of the drawbacks detailed in list 1 of the monkey-grip style penalty section
Dual-damage type for the purpose of bypassing immunities and resistances

Stripping away those differences which are really only important to pedants like me (and the devastating critical duration, as it is there to compensate for the difference in the number of saves made against devastating critical's effects between different threat ranges. The desirability of potency versus frequency varies depending on the nature of the target), the difference of a monkey-gripped scythe over a scimitar on a weapon master is thus:

Large weapon for the purposes of disarm attempts
An additional power slot for the purpose of the Mythal crafting system
One of the drawbacks detailed in list 1 of the monkey-grip style penalty section
Dual-damage type for the purpose of bypassing immunities and resistances

The reasonable conclusion is that assuming that the standard scimitar weapon master itself is not overpowered, then there's no reason why a monkey-gripped scythe instead of the standard blade is "too powerful" or anything remotely game-breaking.

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

Well said.

In practice, you will see a 2d4 weapon with a 5x critical multipler will do much more damage then a 1d6 weapon with a 3x multipler, one handed a scyth WM can hit 300 damage criticals reliably.

In theory there should not be much of a difference, in practice there is a huge difference.

Please explain to me how you can "in practice" get 60 damage a hit on a one-handed weapon master.

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THREE

Read bini's post. This topic got served.

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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

2d4 + 2d6 damage bonus x2 + Epic Specialization + 15 STR mod + Flame Weapon/Darkfire = 63 damage with Ki Strike, 315 on critical


Then you add in Overwhelming critical and massive critical

Gods I wished Ki damage worked like that, it might actually be semi-useful then. Unfortunately, Ki Damage affects only base weapon damage (2d4 is automatically 8 on successful hit), all other variable damage stuff remains variable.
Also, where did you get 2d6x2 damage from?

Edit: also, after reading a bit more about Ki damage, seems that on a critical hit, it doesn't even multiply max weapon damage (8x5 in case of scythe WM), but only one instance of base damage (8 + 4x2d4), making it even more useless than I thought.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

No.
2d4 (base) + 15 (strength, this mod is pushing it for a wm, but whatever) + 6 (w.s.) + 5 (enhancement) + 1d12 (flame weapon) + 1d10 (assuming here, never seen an epic scythe).
5+15+6+5+6.5+5.5 = 43 on average
ki damage turns that to 46 on average

on a critical you would add 1d8 (massive critical) + 5d6 (overwhelming critical)
43 x 5 + 4.5 + 17.5 = 237 average critical
using ki damage actually lowers your overwhelming crit damage, so a ki damage critical would be 226 damage

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THREE

Quite doable for +2 str race, usually it's +14 (26 base str)



Warforged weapons give +2d6 damage, except in case of quarterstaff and heavy flail which have +2d8.
Mass crit bonus depends in crit multiplier, it's +2d6 for weapons with 19-20 as base range and +3d6 for weapons with 20 base range.



I just read about that. I'm at loss of words.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

This is NWN, push a button to do less damage is par for the course it would seem.

Just posting my two cents here

Scythes are simply not balanced for that sort of thing. If you want a one handed scythe, we already have the sickle. I know we have style penalties, but the scythe is a big piece of wood with a giant curved piece at the end and thus simply doesn't seem like it'd work as a one handed weapon at all. It's just to hard to use.

I'm not really here to argue the numbers since there are people who are much better at it than me, but a one handed scythe seems silly to me.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

You're really complaining about that when there's goblins and such running around in a world filled with magic, and people are able to have 50 strength thus giving them the ability to lift and carry houses around without breaking a sweat? It weights like 12lbs, the tower shield is 50, you carry 100s if not 1000s of lbs in your inventory. That's too absurd to use from sheer physical capability?

How absurd.

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As someone who has actually trained in how to use the scythe as a weapon.

Point the first - scythes are really really bad weapons
Point the second - ...scythes are really really bad weapons
Point the third - it's a fantasy game where scythes are really really good weapons.

Therefore I conclude: It's the choice between adopting some form of reality (at which point we must assume that the 'scythe' is deliberately tailored for combat and thus can be wielded single handed) or we assume it's a fantasy world, who cares about non-magicworld logic.

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Unuldor d'Vilrath - Herald of Discipline
Nadrin Vlos - sadistic torturer, physician and
Brognar Steerinsport - crazy dueregar monk
Saul Rephaim - Sane

I don't think weight is of any issue here, but game balance. And balance is more important here then any "realism".
I dislike people using "it's magical world" argument though. It's just lame-ass excuse for anything. I'd actually like to see people argue and talk about martial styles (no matter how realistic or fantasy they are) and ways to actually make this work, then just handwave everything into "it's magic" category. This server just has too much magic, and too little martial stuff being worked on. Just look at DC requests. When did you see request concerning martial style/WM abilities that wasn't monkey grip? And compare that to number of spell requests. But again, that's stuff for another discussion.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

I'm not worried about game balance. Amia is pretty great about balance (check out any other server with a level cap past 20 if you need a reference.)

I just think it would look stupid.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!