The thing that people seem to forget about a "deep" evil character is one simple process.

It's not "I do ____ because I'm evil."

It's "I'm evil because of ______."

If you look at evil characters, you can very easily differentiate between the two. The latter, to me, are the more well-played and believable evils. I don't like the evil for evil's sake kind of schtick. It just leads to incessant PvP where everyone just gets pissed.

Also, do you think you can cut with the namecalling. It's very rude and does not get your point across. All it does is makes people dislike you.

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

I think at this point, this topic has gone on long enough. Clearly there is too much bitterness in the air for things to stay civil and I don't think it's the kind of conversation that should be going on so viciously public anymore.

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Maybe one day an unbiased account of exactly what happened in Caraigh could be written down for server history... because im still in the dark how the cultists just up and left one day and the jarl got involved somehow *and I play a Jarl Warden*

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"It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."

your the one who keeps trying to claim evil goes around and causes chaos for evil and chaos alone.



hate crimes are simple they happen and continue happen off because of a belief of ones race,gender or religon is superior to that of anothers
if that does not scream Drow on many levels I dont know what does.




I assume by discourse you ment "gain" if not correct me. (because I use that term as to have a discussion and talk)

so thats far from pointless with no gain,killing followers of another god weakens them for a attempt to other throw them, or they are are geting to strong and are becoming a threat to your saftey.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

For the love of god. Lock it!

Corpyx, Needler - You're embarrassing urselves

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Well, I can not give an "unbiased" account on what happened since I was one of those "culstists". But I do know why the cultists left. However, I do not feel like that is anything which needs to be added to any server history or be mentioned to anyone outside the cultist group anyway. The previus posts regarding that subject matter and open evil pretty much sums things up neatly.

I've read this thread, and I can't think of anything productive that would be geared towards closure except for explaining some of what I know about psychiatric disorders and how they relate to socially unacceptable behavior: I.E., being evil. Keep in mind that there are a lot of theories and they're all just trying to explain the same thing.

There have been a lot of questions about why evil people do things, and trying to use real life examples about why people do evil things and whether or not someone could just get up and kill people one morning. The answer, really, is yes. But these people are psychopaths. They usually have their own reasons and logic that they understand for doing what they do, as is the case of people who premeditate violence and abuse. Even though their behavior is deviant (any behavior that does not conform to a set of rules or norms is) it is also rational, especially to themselves. But, sometimes, there is a case of schizophrenia that develops one way or another; drugs, heredity, etc.

And sometimes its just stress that triggers a condition, and alters their thinking towards self-preservation. That's what some psychologist people say, anyway. That was the explanation given for Susan Smith who drowned her two toddlers in a lake by pushing her car into it while they were buckled into their car seats. She was a divorcee, and her boyfriend just dumped her because she had kids and he didn't want to commit. Her rationale was that her children were keeping her from being able to exist. It's terrible, but rational for her. She was said to have a mood disorder, and she was so depressed that she would do anything to save herself.

And then there is a theory about behavior: that it can be learned from people they spend a lot of time with, and whether or not certain behavior is rewarded or punished. Some people say its why abuse and violence runs in the family, but it could also be a combination of biological issues. Biological issues also have unique stressers; like, of course, just plain stress (from perceived threats, which could be anything), but also drugs and alcohol.

Most of the time, it is a combination of a lot of individual things that create someone who becomes "evil"; say a mass murderer like Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. He was said to have Antisocial Personality Disorder, and really, most people who met him said he was a quiet normal guy. Chances are he had a combination of disorders, but the one I mentioned probably caused his utter lack of remorse or care for his victims. A documentary I watched had his police interview tapes and he considered that he was playing a game with the police that was never supposed to end. He'd kill someone, send in evidence and communicate to police, and they'd enjoy the time they spent trying to catch him. He couldn't understand that the police lied to him when he asked if they could trace the disc he sent them. He couldn't fathom why they'd want it to end.

And sometimes, there are people who know they're doing wrong but don't care because they're upset and frustrated, which has to do with their personality. Sometimes they'll project their feelings on other people who fit the "type" or are similar to the actual person they want to project their feelings on. This one I actually read in a newspaper: a middle-aged man with two sons just got divorced from his wife and lost custody of his children. He was a college-educated man with a decent career and a nice house, but his personality was submissive and his wife was domineering. The divorce was her idea, and she took his kids. He ended up kidnapping a woman off the street and keeping her locked in his car trunk for a couple of weeks where he abused and raped her, and did strange things that call her "his wife" and offer to marry her and so on. He was also building an animal crate in his living room to keep her in so he could give her to his oldest son when he turned eighteen. Eventually she escaped and ran half-naked across the lawn to a neighbor's house to get help. The guy saw her run, and screamed for her to get back in the house, and then I believe he screamed that it served her right for what she had done. Then, he promptly drove to get a lawyer and turned himself in to the police.

The legal definition of someone insane is a person who doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. I can't remember who it was, but it was some serial killer who is in prison for life who was exceedingly rational. He knew what he was in jail for, and what he did, and what he apparently did wrong, but he didn't understand it. Most of all, he didn't understand why he didn't understand why it was wrong. From his cell, he asked for a psychiatrist to explain some of the theories to him because he genuinely did not know and was interested. He didn't argue, he just listened until it made sense to him what other people saw. He still didn't understand by himself, but he gained a new perspective and was content.

As for average acts of violence, assault and abuse, it's theorized that it's just individuals justifying and rationalizing what they did. Some of them are: Denying responsibility (It's not my fault), denying the injury (It doesn't hurt anyone, really!), denying the victim (they got what they deserved), condemning authorities (they're dishonest, corrupt and in it for themselves. Why should I listen to them?), or appealing to "higher" principles or authority (my standards and what I believe is more important that your silly laws and rules). I think this is personally what most Amian evil is.

But, these are examples that actually had interviews with the criminals to go along with them, so we could understand. For the rest, like the Columbine killings and Virgina Tech there are a lot more theories, but the one I like the most because it's a bit broader is that they were missing something that people have to keep them sane and functional. Normal. I think it was Stanford that published a list of traits for a healthy person. They were things like having goals, having family/family-like relationships, being able to have fun, being able to love, to be able to grieve, social connections, and so on. The loss or absence of these could be a trigger. I believe it was theorized that the Columbine killers were social outcasts who were quiet and frequently bullied, and didn't have friends, or social interactions and so on as a result. Since they also committed suicide, it works with Durkheim's theory about one reason for it: lack of a connection to the world and people.

Anyway, that was a lot more than I intended to write, but this stuff fascinates me I also have some of my college text books left over, and I wanted to use them before I send them back. <.< I can answer PMs about more of this stuff, probably.

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"The world takes and takes, even things that aren't offered. Finally, it gave us something back; I wish he was here to share it with me."

The part of doing something is true, an individual will have a motivation for doing some action. It may or may not be apparent to others, but "I felt like it" is perfectly plausible.

The alignment for drow however is CE, the problem is that many people reconcile that with anarchy and is at odds with what CE truly is. Drow are motivated by three things in life; Pride, anger, and fear. Pride in the belief that they are created as a superior species and that even their own failures are the fault of someone else, a CE worldview. Anger, they are quick to resort to vilence and revenge is a common goal. The failure of a subordinate, another who holds power that they should have are things that spur the primal anger of drow, both again CE traits. Fear, the constant terror that a drow carries with them also makes for a large part of their motivations. Fear of those above them in power, fear of those plotting against them, fear of the dread capricious queen they serve, even fear of seeming weak. Fear is another common CE trait, and all lawful tendencies seen on the surface or simply there for the appeal of apparent stability. The only real law of drow society is that being caught breaking a rule placed upon you by another. The rule itself is largely immaterial if the rule breaker has the political support to break it. Again, a CE trait.

It should be noted that none of the motivations that a drive drow require constant PvP, killing of random people, or proclaiming "Urr, I'm really evil, fear me!!!". They are simply too busy plotting the downfall of that bitch who's using the power they should be wielding.

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

yes because you did nothing but..... make every PC leave the island of Caraigh,trash the mill that takes many hours of collecting supplies to repair and rebuild, perma killed NPCs...ect yep you lost and did nothing there.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

It's clear what YOUR reason is for playing evil then.

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

Quoted for emphasis. (QFE).
Please read it.

It's so spot on what we need in this thread. Tips, Theories, Ideas and inspiration.

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Not gonna lie, I totally bypassed the whole corypx/Needled247/Bella Rose convo due to an absurd about of fail in there. And I can say it's certainly not directed at Bella or Needled.

But, yeah... I think this needs to be put to pasture finally. There's been good stuff here, but there's a ton of OOC bitching and whining going on from all around and it's only going to get worse it seems -_-


I have to emphasize this.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I've worked with plenty of evil folk. Not sure who locked this but I can see why it was locked. If you've personal issues with specific players, or groups of players, try approaching them like adults before insults and accusations are hurled about. If that fails contact a DM to mediate the dispute. If that fails, well, keep the dispute out of the game and the community. No one on the team is, from what I have seen, purposely out to sabotage players. During my time as a DM I've seen evil win, evil lose, good win and good lose. Hell, most of the time I see evil and good win together, I've seen neutrals come out on top too! Allignment, for the most part, is irrelevent when it comes to DM supervision (with exception, perhaps, to the underdark who have a few specialist DMs down in that dank pit.) As I'm posting this there are 45 players on the server and we've got about 10 active DMs, some of whom are only active on the forums currently. Not everyone is going to recieve the attention they deserve and when they do recieve attention they can't be picky about the type of attention really. The thing that keeps me DMing (Yes, sproadically, I know) is doing things that interest me, weaving stories and plucking characters to push that story forward, sometimes a player request will get my interest and I'll work with them to futher their characters development. Anyway, I'm rambling, the point is that players fall under the radar including banites, slavers, cultists, triadic knights, war knights, ralten's etc, etc. You're not always going to get that request approved, or that quest supervised it depends entirely on the DM's willingness to run it and the time at our disposal. To say roleplaying evil is ridiculous in any context. Roleplay whatever the hell you want and make it work, defeat is going to follow you regardless of what you play as well as victory.

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I wanted to add a note that says: If people still have issues they want o discuss or need addressed, my inbox and MSN is always open to you, as long as you want to talk about it and not just vent your anger and play the blame game the Nth time. I am a problem solver, not a miracle worker. I can give answers but I make no guarantee its the ones you want, just the ones that are there.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham