AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Gers wrote:

I've got a bit of a different take on it. One of the main things about Llothism, is that despite it's dedication to chaos, normality is literally enforced. Anyone with any sort of "defect" or unusual behavior, unless they've accumulated a lot of power (be it magical, divine, economic, or other), is generally viewed as inferior, or a threat, and as a target for elimination.

This. As one of the two dominant UD DMs, I can state authoritatively that Traditionalism is the direction I have been witnessing our Amia Drow community moving in as a whole. Ainjyll, being the other one, can likely corroborate such.

However, on Amia, Selvertarm is far more prevelent in Lolthite society than is typical in a traditional lore sense. Hence, in Edonil, you may find many a male openly declare their dedication to Selvertarm with the understanding that they are Lolthite first and foremost. They get away with this on the argument that are following Selvertarm's exemplary demonstration of service to the Dread Queen.

To answer the OP: Lolth-dedicated Male Clerics are rare and almost completely unheard of in Edonil. They can exist, but large numbers of them will likely bring Lolth's ire. Furthermore, my two cents worth is that they likely would be hard pressed to rise in Temple rank beyond Yath, but, as Edonil is a Player-Driven city/town, I can not speak definitively for the players of the Temple PCs.

I guess you must have a problem with sacrificing freaks then, but I don't. I think it's great role-play, and that's what loltholites do. They sacrifice drow freaks. I just don't see why that can't be handled in character rather than saying out of character, "You can't do that." If you have to break character to remind people of rules, then you are a weak role-player, period.

...? Who was that even targeted at?

Also, side note, it is never "weak" to break character in order to politely point out to a fellow player that they should adhere to server policies. This is especially true if you are tossing them under the knife as sacrifices. Likewise, it is also pertinent to mention that sacrifices are subject to the "PCs can't force Perma-kills on eachother" rules, so pretty much a sacrificed PC can respawn and prance around again at their leisure unless they make the effort to treat the death as a Perma event.

Furthermore, it is increadibly rude to toss such a stigma as being a "weak role player" on others who are being mindful that this is a game/server/setting with set parameters and are likely only trying to be helpful. This server is all about trying to respect the notion of "different strokes for different folks" while still adhering to the wonderful Lore of the FRCS and NWN's adaptation of D&D. Some of the sub-communities may take different approaches to such, but that idea and concept remain the same.

joe15552 wrote:

I guess you must have a problem with sacrificing freaks then, but I don't. I think it's great role-play, and that's what loltholites do. They sacrifice drow freaks. I just don't see why that can't be handled in character rather than saying out of character, "You can't do that." If you have to break character to remind people of rules, then you are a weak role-player, period.

I don't mind odd characters myself infact I quite like them (although i will warn people about playing them beforehand) the only problem is that since characters rarely ever die for good on amia you can start having issues if a number of people make fairly lore breaking characters.

Also, damn you Dust for editing your post to basically say what I meant to.

I would expect a written character request to play a male cleric of lolth along with a damn good reason why you can't just worship selvetarm.

Quote:

...? Who was that even targeted at?

It was targeting any player that has to break character while playing a drow character.

The rules of the game dictate that out of character consent must be given for certain types of role-play. The rules also state that every single one of these types of role-play occur in drow role-play. So basically, if you are playing a drow, there is no reason for you to ever break character.

So, to reiterate:

If you are playing a drow, and you break character, you are a weak role-player. Stated differently, if a drow is acting strangely, and you remind them of drow role-play rules out of character (without them asking first), then you are a weak role-player. Not to mention that you are being disrespectful to that player... which leads back to DustSpray's comment on me making rude statements. It is a fact that if you break character disrespectfully, inappropriately, and in order to place some emotional burden on another player because of the type of character they chose to play, you are a weak role-player.

serbiris wrote:

Is there a reasonable possibility for a female cleric of Selvetarm? I uh, probably should've asked this six months ago, but that's another story... As far as I know, cleric-hood is a question of aptitude for divine magic, and usually those females who show it would go straight into Lolth's temple. So is there a reasonable possibility that something else happens?

Serbiris, I have to tell you I thought this was an insane idea - having a female Selvetarm cleric. However, your RP was stellar. I mean I was wow'd and so was Nizzre'tyne. This is the example of how you can manage a rare class type in the current Lolthite society in Amia and fit in.

joe15552 wrote:

I guess you must have a problem with sacrificing freaks then, but I don't. I think it's great role-play, and that's what loltholites do. They sacrifice drow freaks. I just don't see why that can't be handled in character rather than saying out of character, "You can't do that." If you have to break character to remind people of rules, then you are a weak role-player, period.

FYI that the current leaders in Edonil play a huge role in what may or may not be accepted as far as characters that get to roam around Edonil. “Drow freaks” are not sacrificed – probably killed, banned, or found a good use for... Ainjyll said it best when he said it’s more a deal where the oddity is noted and filed away for use when the one who noted it can use it to gain more power.

Also it’s not a matter of you can’t do that as much as don’t be upset when your character is treated like the freak it is. Any male who claims to get their divine spells from Lolth should follow Tormaks advice because you’ll be asked (probably not politely) in game about it. Heh.

joe15552 wrote:

Quote:

...? Who was that even targeted at?

It was targeting any player that has to break character while playing a drow character.

The rules of the game dictate that out of character consent must be given for certain types of role-play. The rules also state that every single one of these types of role-play occur in drow role-play. So basically, if you are playing a drow, there is no reason for you to ever break character.

So, to reiterate:

If you are playing a drow, and you break character, you are a weak role-player. Stated differently, if a drow is acting strangely, and you remind them of drow role-play rules out of character (without them asking first), then you are a weak role-player. Not to mention that you are being disrespectful to that player... which leads back to DustSpray's comment on me making rude statements. It is a fact that if you break character disrespectfully, inappropriately, and in order to place some emotional burden on another player because of the type of character they chose to play, you are a weak role-player.

Perhaps you can give an example of breaking character to be disrespectful, inappropriate, and create an emotional burden? In relation to the subject of the OP, the player would have a very difficult time playing a male cleric of Lolth. There would be no need of any OOC commentary in game as it's all being laid out here in the forums, and hopefully anyone who reads this would create that PC with the knowledge that it will be an IC struggle to play against type. That is not to say that one cannot ever play such a PC, but that it will not be a cakewalk, and many established characters and the lore will be working against that player. But, that is how things get changed, but it will never be a case of "I want to play 'X' and everything should accommodate my wishes."

Fierene Havenstar wrote:

FYI that the current leaders in Edonil play a huge role in what may or may not be accepted as far as characters that get to roam around Edonil. “Drow freaks” are not sacrificed – probably killed, banned, or found a good use for... Ainjyll said it best when he said it’s more a deal where the oddity is noted and filed away for use when the one who noted it can use it to gain more power.

Also it’s not a matter of you can’t do that as much as don’t be upset when your character is treated like the freak it is. Any male who claims to get their divine spells from Lolth should follow Tormaks advice because you’ll be asked (probably not politely) in game about it. Heh.

Thank You Firerene. Just that small amount of sanity encouraged me to role-play on Amia again. As long as by "character treatment" you exclusively mean "the way your character is treated in role-play." I have found way too often that players are so willing to send out of character tells to other players they feel are not "role-playing correctly." This is out-of-character treatment of players, and should not be considered role-playing... in fact, it could be considered harassment.

I am starting to wonder if someone in particular has been rude to you in OOC fashion and it was not resolved to your satisfaction. If this is the case Joe, please feel free to PM me or any other DMs the specifics so that it can be looked into.

Otherwise, I'm siding with Tormak here.

TormakSaber wrote:

I would expect a written character request to play a male cleric of lolth along with a damn good reason why you can't just worship selvetarm.

It can save a lot of hassles in game if someone challenges it OOCly as they may not know better and you can simply point them to an approved request.

joe15552 wrote:

The rules of the game dictate that out of character consent must be given for certain types of role-play. The rules also state that every single one of these types of role-play occur in drow role-play. So basically, if you are playing a drow, there is no reason for you to ever break character.

Playing a Drow does not equal auto-waving your rights as a player. The need for OOC in all Racial RP is very real. Drow aren't an exception.

Otherwise, IC interpretations of Characters and Actions are one thing, but when there are real large oddities (like red haired Drow, Lolthite Males, etc.) and a fellow player blows a whistle on that OOCly, I wouldn't put up a fuss. They are playing by what they know of the setting and for all they know you as a player could be brand new to playing Drow and may not have intended to be so out there.

Most importantly of all, remember to have fun as players and remember that others are entitled to the same. More specifically, given the nature of Drow RP, while IC your toons may be some of the cruelest PCs to rock our Amian interpretation of Faerun, OOC wise you can't spell Lolth without LoL so try to make sure things are a good time for all involved.

Most people just ignore 4th edition for good reason... It's garbage. :lol:

No need for the horrible lore of 4th edition imo, we weren't stupid enough to kill Vhaerun or Selvetarm with bad writing which is the only (poor) reason 'never' went to 'rare.'

TormakSaber wrote:

I would expect a written character request to play a male cleric of lolth along with a damn good reason why you can't just worship selvetarm.

This. Please, pay attention to this.

If someone says that a male cleric of Lolth isn't possible..... they could cite two different sources and be correct. Both The Underdark and Faiths & Pantheons both make mention of there not being any male clergy for Lolth.

That said, it's not any other player's place to tell another player what they can and can't do. That's what we DM's are for and if someone sees a player who's character is a slap in the face of lore (be it a purple-skinned dwarf RDD who loves to defend the small and weak and uphold justice and freedom for all or whatever), then they should screenie all relevant info they can and send it to a DM for us to look over and rule on.

Wasn't there a male cleric of Lolth in one of the Drizz't books? Rai-guy or something? Second in command to Jarlaxle.

I think he even cross-classed as a wizard.

Drizzt novels........... That's all I have to say.

As a player of a lolthite priestess I will say that just like lolth and the dms that elvis would need role-play as strong as a good request - aka someone with a powerful presence and confidence and as much ooc knowledge as me about the culture itself - to be considered "won over." that is assuming Elvis ever is won over.

Estara wrote:

Drizzt novels........... That's all I have to say.

As a player of a lolthite priestess I will say that just like lolth and the dms that elvis would need role-play as strong as a good request - aka someone with a powerful presence and confidence and as much ooc knowledge as me about the culture itself - to be considered "won over." that is assuming Elvis ever is won over.

Thank you for confirming my suspicion that lore-fu is the requisite for character creation. Why would we think players are creative enough to come up with a reason for oddities to occur in character? That's so hard... oh ... so hard...

You are right. Let's just make things easy and say that unless you can't prove your lore is better then Estara's, you have no right to play your character, no matter what it is.

joe, signing off

Did I insult you, Joe? If so, perhaps we can work it out via pms. Otherwise your attitude is totally unnecessary as I have every right to expect interesting characters to be the ones to captivate my own. Create what you want, sure. Thats not within my realm of control and even if it was I'm sure you can come up with something I'd approve. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Or you, for that matter!

joe15552 wrote:

Estara wrote:

Drizzt novels........... That's all I have to say.

As a player of a lolthite priestess I will say that just like lolth and the dms that elvis would need role-play as strong as a good request - aka someone with a powerful presence and confidence and as much ooc knowledge as me about the culture itself - to be considered "won over." that is assuming Elvis ever is won over.

Thank you for confirming my suspicion that lore-fu is the requisite for character creation. Why would we think players are creative enough to come up with a reason for oddities to occur in character? That's so hard... oh ... so hard...

You are right. Let's just make things easy and say that unless you can't prove your lore is better then Estara's, you have no right to play your character, no matter what it is.

joe, signing off

Gawd, puhleez, don't be such a drama llama. All she did was say "A male better have a good reason to be using the powers of the Spider Queen 'cuz my lolth-y shebitch ain't gonna like that round these here parts."

Yea, I think this has served its purpose.

Quote:

I would expect a written character request to play a male cleric of lolth along with a damn good reason why you can't just worship selvetarm.

And that is all you need to know.

Male Lolthite Clerics?

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