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Mechanically gimped concepts.
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Author:  Kamina [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 16:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Mechanically gimped concepts.
Heya, I have a concept in mind that's going to be your standard FTR/WM/ROG build, however her main style of combat will be one-handed Rapier.

This is less of a Build query and more of a Concept query due to the following question:

Have you ever forgone something mechanically viable (E.G. 1h + Shield, an armour type (Leathered rogue as an example) or a feat all together) for the sake of a character's build an roleplay? What was it if so? How did you find the RP payoff as opposed to the mechanical smoothness?
Author:  Analog Kid [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 17:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
One word: Derrin. Without giving away too much, I'll say that I sacrificed a lot with his build to gain what is now a largely useless in mechanic. Stealth. Everyone and their brother can spot Derrin on a whim, and his Stealth score isn't far from the cap.

All in all, the rp has been worth it, with the exception of being almost perpetually poor. :)
Author:  Magiros [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 20:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Las'Claianna Le'Quella.. I can speak openly as my rebuild requests have always been public.

Divination focuses, doesn't really offer any mechanical benefits. In comparison to abjuration, necromancy, transmutation or necromancy... Oh and conjuration. Taking divination specialization made the situation even worse for lack of imp invis and shadow shield. A tad challenging to survive now.

Both non-epic and epic skill focus on spellcraft.

A lot of epic feats for roleplay purposes. Great Int, Epic Spell Focus Divination, Epic Skill Focus Spellcraft, Epic Skill Focus Spot, which could have been allocated elsewhere for better mechanical bonuses.. Such as other epic spell focus or epic spells.

Did pay off in RP. The character does have some reputation with divination school and magic in general IC:ly. As well have been able to reveal information, at times, which revealed the enemy intention/target/location. I rather have character fitting build over mechanical build. Plus I live in constant hope that DM's in event notice these facts and they do. :D
Author:  Naivatkal [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 20:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Divination foci do give bonuses to some spells, you know ;p
Author:  555444333 [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 21:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Kamina wrote:
Heya, I have a concept in mind that's going to be your standard FTR/WM/ROG build, however her main style of combat will be one-handed Rapier.


http://i.imgur.com/Sj9nzvb.gif You will hate 2hander barbs even more?
Author:  Magiros [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 21:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
They do. But when most benefits are about Lore/Spot/Listen or small +Hp to Power Word Stun or Kill, the benefits are not that great. Feeblemind would be great with transmutation book page.. As curently it is only good against wizard, if they happen to roll 1 on will safe... Or very low. And still they are left with spells and Epic spells.

If we consider Clairvoyance spell, it gives both spot and listen skill benefit, but the spell does not last long, not even as extended. Then we have identify and legend lore spells that increase Lore, well, with extended they last decent enough time.. But there is no real mechanical benefit in having high lore. When we consider that wizard or sorcerers tend to have it high regardless, for the purposes of identifying items. Spot is lovely if you are spot focused build. However, without epic skill focus Spot and skill dumping, the skill is rather useless. Even as I get +16 Spot... I still need to get some from equipment or be able to recast Clairvoyance all the times to keep it maxed. Not to mention spot is wisdom based skill.

Power Word Stun and Kill do get + XX to the amount of Hp they can affect. But still, they are very hard to aim at right time. "Near Death" varies so much depending on character or monster. For some "Near Death" might be around 200 HP.. While for wizard, it might be considerably lower.

So therefore, Divination can not be said to be a powerbuilding school of magic. If I want to powerbuild, I would go Epic Focus Transmutation (Epic Summon), Epic Evoc/Abju.. Depending on the build.. Then take Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, Mage Armor and would not waste a feat on Skill Focuses, maybe Spot if I wanted to be spot whoring wizard. But let's not derail this topic further from the initial question.

What makes me consider my feat/specialization selection worthwhile, is the roleplaying aspect of them. And I love the build and being an epic diviner. There is such possibilities with the school roleplaying wise, but much depends on fellow players and DM's. Just the fact that you're able to gather information from your surroundings and seem all knowing biach, is enough for me. :D Sadly, I don't seem like that IC... But, I have a dream. I love the RP value of the school being about information gathering and at times, with DM help... It pays out so much! The satisfaction of going "Oh, you don't know already..? What, your mages failed in divination? Well..... I succeeded.. Let -me- educate you..."

With spellcraft.. It is just somehow satisfying rolling spellcraft in an event and go...1 + 110 = 111 or even with 20 + 110 = 130. Plus the fact that the skill is used to identify spells, but I consider it as well to be about spell developing and researching... Which is why I made it so high, my character has done extensive work in those aspects and should have high spellcraft.

Also, my wizard does not have familiar, which can be considered as a gimp for a wizard. Would be far more efficient to hunt with familiar and epic summon... And the Epic summon feat, I can't even use for rp reasons.. So I am constantly forced to take others out for hunting, which I don't mind as it is more fun.

Oh.. And my character does not have portal wand either. So, I go everywhere by running or using lamp/transportation.. Or get other people to teleport me there. Great satisfaction when you get to cast teleportation spell under DM event.

EDIT: What I love the most is the foreseeing aspect of the school.. AH! It would be so awesome to RP that more, but would require DM assistance to make it accurate!
Author:  555444333 [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 22:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
There's a concept for you. A character who never got issued a portal wand. 8)
Author:  Naivatkal [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 22:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
A concept (I've seen done a few times), yes. But not a mechanically gimped concept.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Wed, Feb 25 2015, 23:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Neither of my mains use Tower Shields despite having the the mechanical ability to. Beldor hates trading mobility for durability (and refused to ever learn to wear Heavy Armor effectively for that same reason). Zammikyra is similar in that she finds it a bit "overkill" to use a phalanx-oriented defense for solo combat; she's more of a duelist and uses the saber(rapier). A Tower Shield would likely throw off her balance while flying too much for her to bother with them, really. I'm not sure if there's any real RP value in that other than what I get out of it. Even then, there are a good deal of Large Shields out there that make the sacrifice almost negligible.

I wouldn't think of it as gimping, but in a min-max sense I guess it is: Beldor has Scribe Scroll, despite being a Sorcerer. He has studied magic formally and always thought it was shameful that most Sorcerers are "Art illiterate." The RP benefit is that he often gets into a lot of interesting discussions with other arcanists and people he teaches because of it. People that normally write Sorcerers off as incompetent usually give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure if he would consider it a benefit though, as he sometimes gets mistaken for a Wizard because of it.

Zammi has a dozen or so ranks in Lore, even though nothing in her build will ever depend on it. It's to represent being trained and ordained as a Tormite priestess, which involves her Preacher, Exorcist, and Spiritualist Jobs. It really doesn't come into play much, however. Any time a Lore Check needs to be rolled, there's always someone around that has more Lore and who can figure it out for the group. But it does make me feel less dirty when I can have her speak freely about divine history, especially the Time of Troubles. All my characters have had equal or greater Lore investments, simply because I don't know how I'd RP someone without it.
Author:  Spirit of Rock [ Thu, Feb 26 2015, 5:00 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Walsen, my current character, currently has (and will later have) all the mechanical force of a gentle fart. I highly doubt he'll get to level 20, much less max.
Author:  Alaria- [ Thu, Feb 26 2015, 5:49 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Lyraesel is an intellectual and therefore doesn't have Blind Fight. I left RP doorways open for her to learn it, but it hasn't come to pass yet. I don't want Lyraesel to come off as an extremely skilled warrior since she simply isn't. Having an extra miss chance or generally having no clue how to battle sneaky/stealthy opponents simply makes sense for her and I like it.
Author:  Mercedes [ Thu, Feb 26 2015, 19:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
I'm sure a lot more people make sacrifices in Power for roleplay than we'd think. I locked out divination and a few other spell types on my Sorcerers for various reasons, and going forward there will likely be other sacrifices.

That's not to say you can't be unique or well played as a cookie cutter build either. Regardless... good RP is a primary focus here so most any task in the game is worth it
Author:  555444333 [ Thu, Feb 26 2015, 22:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
I had the best idea. Play a fighter with 8 intelligence, who has all his skillpoints in Ride. :lol:
Author:  MazeOfThorns [ Thu, Feb 26 2015, 23:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Analog Kid wrote:
One word: Derrin. Without giving away too much, I'll say that I sacrificed a lot with his build to gain what is now a largely useless in mechanic. Stealth. Everyone and their brother can spot Derrin on a whim, and his Stealth score isn't far from the cap.


I purposefully didn't add spot to Rith'tar specifically because of this. I wanted to support the SD's out there by having a character you can sneak up on with abandon. Which suits his paranoia RP perfectly.
Author:  Overneath [ Thu, Feb 26 2015, 23:30 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
I have a good deal of trouble with this. Coming 'down' to Amia from general 3.5e, where at least middling levels of optimization are almost mandatory (at least in the groups I usually play), I find myself transferring that trend subconsciously every time I make a character. Fortunately, it's usually counterbalanced by the 'concept -> build' formula; it's easier for me to set limits on a character first and build around that than to subtract from a full build to suit the character. And the changes don't always have to be massive. For example, both of my rogues took shield proficiency because they aren't ambidextrous, my paladin has a lower stat output because I wanted enough skill points to dump into Lore, and the Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple is...well, a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. Little things, admittedly, but just to add spice without crippling them. I can almost never bring myself to make an 'RP build' RP build.

...Except for Pan'lamin, who is essentially gimped just for the sake of being gimped. But his Lore is going to be incredible.
Author:  Shadowfiend [ Thu, Feb 26 2015, 23:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
I think if you wanted to make an actual stereotypical ninja you'd be gimped. If you go the fighter/wm route you won't have much skill points for hide/ms, if you go the rogue route..well either offer ab by going dex with your katana, or go str and have everything else gimped. Though, if you really wanted to make a ninja and not be gimped too much, using ranger as a base would be a good start if you look at it buildwise, and not too much lorewise
Author:  Mercedes [ Fri, Feb 27 2015, 15:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Always wanted the Crossbower that doesn't melee and isn't a shadowdancer. Always gotta be sneaks...
Author:  DireCorbie [ Fri, Feb 27 2015, 18:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
My (lvl 30) character has 60 hp :(
Author:  Spirit of Rock [ Fri, Feb 27 2015, 20:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Mercedes wrote:
Always wanted the Crossbower that doesn't melee and isn't a shadowdancer. Always gotta be sneaks...


I love flirting with the same idea. Crossbows are bad-ass. Could you not make a zen archery Cleric or something?
Author:  The Blue Hand [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 7:49 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
Trying my best to portray a professional criminal, master burglar, and gentleperson thief - it's pretty hard. (I didn't think it would be easy, mind.)

Needless to say, the character eschews violence, so much so that they carry no weapon as being caught with a weapon means a tougher sentence. The character is entirely skill-based. Most of the feats chosen are ones that boost skills in various areas from sneaking about to running cons, most of the skills are typical rogue ones and a lot of social ones.

The character doesn't kill things, being a cowardly, cautious sort. After all, the character is intended to relieve the maniacs who do kill things of their wealth - through non-violent, skillful means, mind you.

Having said that, leveling it is very, very hard.

Looking to the Job System for help, Burglar seemed a natural fit and it's great fun, but 50% is not 50% and having a 10 minute (!) cooldown means leveling will take a crazy amount of time. I took a 2nd job to help offset that and provide a cover, but it also meant I wasn't going to be getting burglar 2 til level 9 which will really slow me down.

Pickpocket seemed fitting for a "day job" as a cutpurse. Unfortunately pickpocket has been so hamstrung that it's impossible to even use it to get experience or portray a low level cutpurse at all.

Would kill if a DM ran a non-violent crime adventure that just rewarded experience to help me along, haha. Oh well. Not sure where else to go from here.
Author:  Dakotaen [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 9:59 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
The Blue Hand wrote:
Would kill if a DM ran a non-violent crime adventure that just rewarded experience to help me along, haha. Oh well. Not sure where else to go from here.


It's worth sending a PM to someone on the staff and ask. The team seems very busy these days, so it might not happen as soon as you would like it to, but the concept of your character and how you play it is certainly interesting enough that someone "up there" might be interested in helping you along with it. Try! :)
Author:  555444333 [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 18:19 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
I'd totally love to be the Trevor to your Michael :lol:
Author:  blackvswhite [ Sun, Mar 08 2015, 4:32 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Mechanically gimped concepts.
My character Angus's feats are Silver Palm, Skill focus: Appraise, and Skill focus: Lore.... And I'm planning on continuing taking such excellent merchant feats! If I ever get to level 6....
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