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| A rebuild for Budly https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=88862 |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 20:23 PM ] |
| Post subject: | A rebuild for Budly |
Budly being a Rogue 16/Ranger 10 is in bad need of a rebuild to fit the server now. He was built about almost 10 years ago with no build idea or concept in mind but letting it come with time as RP evolved him, like becoming a ranger cause he was a pupil under Ohlde Mann at the Grove. I got some ideas from some players around here but thought I just start a thread where I can go back to this and look at it and write it down. I think I have to bind it to Ranger/Rogue still or something along those lines to not change to much of the concept and from the RP built around him. Adding maybe fighter lvls. But any idea is welcome. As of now Im unsure of his base stats but I will look them up if anyone want to know them. Atleast what he got right now. |
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| Author: | Tarnus [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 20:25 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
I presume Budly is dex based then? |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 20:31 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Tarnus wrote: I presume Budly is dex based then? Yes Horrible stats I noticed now too. I think I raised charisma and such on lvls. Str: 12 Dex: 17 Con: 12 Int: 16 Wis: 12 Cha: 16 |
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| Author: | Commie [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 20:57 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
17 starting dex is fine, lots of people do it as it frees up an epic feat. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 21:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Im not sure it is starting, I do not remember the starting stats. That is the stats on 26 so it might be anything from 15 to 17 I guess cause Im sure I dropped points into Int and Cha. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 21:10 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Budly wrote: Im not sure it is starting, I do not remember the starting stats. That is the stats on 26 so it might be anything from 15 to 17 I guess cause Im sure I dropped points into Int and Cha. Hit the player tools button and click characters and if you could scroll to the bottom of 'budly' and paste his level one self so we can know what we're working with. Your max level version too. If you want anyway. Don't feel obligated to. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 21:28 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
I linked it, how do I add it here easily? |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sun, Apr 23 2017, 21:43 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
I only find this. Sadly see no lvl 1. Budly Bundly (gelmar) Classes HP Race Deity Align Abilities Skills Feats Date Rogue 16 Ranger 10 284 Lightfoot Hin Eilistraee NG STR: 12 DEX: 17 CON: 12 INT: 16 WIS: 12 CHA: 16 AnimalEmpathy: 18 DisableTrap: 16 Discipline: 6 Heal: 2 Hide: 20 Listen: 8 Lore: 6 MoveSilently: 16 OpenLock: 29 Parry: 6 Persuade: 8 PickPocket: 8 Search: 20 SetTrap: 15 Spot: 12 UseMagicDevice: 20 Appraise: 2 Tumble: 25 CraftTrap: 4 Bluff: 8 Intimidate: 4 Ambidexterity Armor Proficiency Light Armor Proficiency Medium Dodge Imp Two Weapon Fighting Shield Proficiency Toughness Two Weapon Fighting Weapon Finesse Weap Prof: Martial Weap Prof: Simple Weap Prof: Rogue Imp Crit: Shortbow Imp Crit: Short Sword Weap Foc: Short Sword Skill Foc: Hide Uncanny Dodge 1 Animal Companion Trackless Step Evasion Imp Evasion Snk Attack Opportunist Skill Aff: Listen Skill Aff: Move Silently Lucky Fearless Good Aim Uncanny Dodge 2 Uncanny Dodge 3 Uncanny Dodge 4 Slippery Mind Fav Enemy: Monstrous Fav Enemy: Giant Fav Enemy: Outsider Snk Attack 2 Snk Attack 3 Snk Attack 4 Snk Attack 5 Snk Attack 6 Snk Attack 7 Snk Attack 8 RangerDual Small Stealthy Ep Gr Dex 1 Ep Character |
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| Author: | The1Kobra [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 0:38 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Hooboy, that's quite something to work with! Generally with a dex build, you want to start with an 18 Dex so you can go for epic dodge easily. 16 INT, while nice for skillpoints, is usually impractical due to the expense of build points. The CHA really does nothing for a rogue/ranger build either, though I imagine you want to keep some for RP purposes, though whether Budly deserves to have a high CHA score like that is up to you and how you want to RP him. There's also a matter of what you're looking for. A generic rogue is fine, but are you looking for something that focuses on stealth? Something with more frontline power? Rogue/ranger suggests more of a stealth focus, but if you want something more front-liney then there's other possibilities. You also will want the knockdown and improved knockdown feats, it's critical for anyone who relies on sneak attack damage. I've done a ranged rogue before and while it's really good in party PvE, the complications in pulling it off are usually not worth it, unless you also take shadowdancer. How critical is ranger to Budly? If it isn't, you could consider a 19/6/5 Rogue/Fighter/Master Scout build. If it is, you still could go 19/10/1 Rogue/Ranger/Something, or 16/10/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter. Try the starting stats: 10/16/12/14/12/14, or 10/18/12/14/12/10 if you think he shouldn't have such a high CHA score. The latter is better mechanically. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 0:45 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
i recommended the classic 13/10/7 primary rogue, plenty of sneaking, tons o skill points, super combat capable. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 6:06 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
The Ranger part is essential to the character. That is something I won't remove. Atleast a few levels is needed. The Charisma part is honestly not fit for the character at all in RP. I think, he can be pretty crude and aggressive. I been recommended ranger lvls from 24 to 29 aswell. Commie, classic 13/10/7? That includes fighter levels? |
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| Author: | The1Kobra [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 10:20 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
He's referring to the 13/10/7 Rogue/Fighter/WM build. It's easily one of the strongest dex rogue builds out there, and is really strong in straight-up combat as well. But if you can't part with Ranger for Budly, I'd recommend going 16/10/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter. Here's my recommendation: Starting Stats: 10/18/12/14/12/10 All stats into Dex. Pre-epic: 12/8 Rogue/Ranger Epic: 16/10/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter Pre-epic Feats(7+1Rog): Blind Fight, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Shortsword), Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, IMPR Crit Shortsword, Weapon Focus Shortbow, Impr Evasion (Rogue Bonus) Epic(4+2Rog+1Ran+3F): G-Dex 1, Epic Weapon Focus Shortsword, Weapon Specialization Shortsword, Epic Weapon Specialization Shortsword, Defensive Roll (Rogue Bonus), Epic Dodge, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, ?, ? Given the excess of bonus epic feats, you'll have to be careful with what you take when, since not all your levels line up neatly. You want your fourth fighter level on level 24 or 27 to get both WS and EWS at the same time. You need to take Epic Weapon Focus and Armor Skin on your fighter levels 1 an 2. You need to take epic prowess on your ranger level. Defensive roll and epic dodge will be your rogue bonus feats. G-Dex 1 should likely be taken as your main feat for level 21. I'd recommend taking fighter from 21 to 24 just to make things easier to manage. That leaves you with two freebie feats, to spend on what you want. Either G-Dex 2-3, Epic Skill focus for hide and spot, or epic fortitude and will if you want saves feats. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 10:24 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
That looks great! But im not sure I want to go through the fuzz of recreating Budly under a new name or altered name just for fixing stats. Sorry for being a picky bastard! I guess I have to go with a full rebuild. From scratch. Guess it means I can still save the old Budly in the Vault as an relic from the passed. |
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| Author: | Tarnus [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 12:30 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
We can just swap the appropriate name back in, just the name at creation needs to be different. |
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| Author: | robbi320 [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 12:51 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Since you seem to like the build Kobra said, I'd just add tw othings. Unless I see it wrong, you shuld take rogue at level one for maximum min-maxing, because your first level skill points are multiplied by four. Doing that leaves you at 266 skill points, or just above 8 skills with 33 ranks. (Like, two skill points left over) |
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| Author: | Budly [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 14:03 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Oh yeah rogue at lvl 1 I know I also have ANOTHER ranger..I could use some build help with Also that is great Tarnus! |
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| Author: | Budly [ Mon, Apr 24 2017, 20:56 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Tarnus wrote: We can just swap the appropriate name back in, just the name at creation needs to be different. So it is plauseable then to rebuild it from the core easily with that build? |
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| Author: | Budly [ Tue, Apr 25 2017, 22:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
The1Kobra wrote: He's referring to the 13/10/7 Rogue/Fighter/WM build. It's easily one of the strongest dex rogue builds out there, and is really strong in straight-up combat as well. But if you can't part with Ranger for Budly, I'd recommend going 16/10/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter. Here's my recommendation: Starting Stats: 10/18/12/14/12/10 All stats into Dex. Pre-epic: 12/8 Rogue/Ranger Epic: 16/10/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter Pre-epic Feats(7+1Rog): Blind Fight, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Shortsword), Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, IMPR Crit Shortsword, Weapon Focus Shortbow, Impr Evasion (Rogue Bonus) Epic(4+2Rog+1Ran+3F): G-Dex 1, Epic Weapon Focus Shortsword, Weapon Specialization Shortsword, Epic Weapon Specialization Shortsword, Defensive Roll (Rogue Bonus), Epic Dodge, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, ?, ? Given the excess of bonus epic feats, you'll have to be careful with what you take when, since not all your levels line up neatly. You want your fourth fighter level on level 24 or 27 to get both WS and EWS at the same time. You need to take Epic Weapon Focus and Armor Skin on your fighter levels 1 an 2. You need to take epic prowess on your ranger level. Defensive roll and epic dodge will be your rogue bonus feats. G-Dex 1 should likely be taken as your main feat for level 21. I'd recommend taking fighter from 21 to 24 just to make things easier to manage. That leaves you with two freebie feats, to spend on what you want. Either G-Dex 2-3, Epic Skill focus for hide and spot, or epic fortitude and will if you want saves feats. I think I will try this one. I need to bring out an IC explanation for the rebuild, right? |
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| Author: | robbi320 [ Tue, Apr 25 2017, 22:58 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Yeah. Though, considering you are essentially just changing the order, (I mean, you are 16/10 now, and will stay 16/10, it shouldn't be too difficukt. I mean, the IC reason can be the OOC reason: not wanting to be useless. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Tue, Apr 25 2017, 23:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
I think his stats will be a bit rearranged to! |
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| Author: | robbi320 [ Tue, Apr 25 2017, 23:07 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Oh, yeah. My experience just is that changes like that are easier, RP-wise, than major class changes. The slightly reduced cha might even fit him. Just some suggestions how one might justify this. But it's completely up to you. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Tue, Apr 25 2017, 23:30 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
It do kinda fits, he grown angrier, grumpier and less of a thinker. Even if he never was a thinker it fits |
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| Author: | Budly [ Mon, May 15 2017, 22:21 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
The1Kobra wrote: He's referring to the 13/10/7 Rogue/Fighter/WM build. It's easily one of the strongest dex rogue builds out there, and is really strong in straight-up combat as well. But if you can't part with Ranger for Budly, I'd recommend going 16/10/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter. Here's my recommendation: Starting Stats: 10/18/12/14/12/10 All stats into Dex. Pre-epic: 12/8 Rogue/Ranger Epic: 16/10/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter Pre-epic Feats(7+1Rog): Blind Fight, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Shortsword), Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, IMPR Crit Shortsword, Weapon Focus Shortbow, Impr Evasion (Rogue Bonus) Epic(4+2Rog+1Ran+3F): G-Dex 1, Epic Weapon Focus Shortsword, Weapon Specialization Shortsword, Epic Weapon Specialization Shortsword, Defensive Roll (Rogue Bonus), Epic Dodge, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, ?, ? Given the excess of bonus epic feats, you'll have to be careful with what you take when, since not all your levels line up neatly. You want your fourth fighter level on level 24 or 27 to get both WS and EWS at the same time. You need to take Epic Weapon Focus and Armor Skin on your fighter levels 1 an 2. You need to take epic prowess on your ranger level. Defensive roll and epic dodge will be your rogue bonus feats. G-Dex 1 should likely be taken as your main feat for level 21. I'd recommend taking fighter from 21 to 24 just to make things easier to manage. That leaves you with two freebie feats, to spend on what you want. Either G-Dex 2-3, Epic Skill focus for hide and spot, or epic fortitude and will if you want saves feats. I am lvl 21 with this build now and i noticed I could not pick Epic Dodge, I forgot Dodge on the lower lvls it seems! |
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| Author: | Commie [ Tue, May 16 2017, 0:01 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Quote: Type of feat: general (epic) Prerequisite: 21st level, dexterity 25+, dodge, tumble 30 ranks, improved evasion, defensive roll You cannot get epic dodge until you have all of those. Dodge is not a pre-req even though it says it is. 30 tumble means level 27 minimum. Stick to the build given, if you took dodge at 21 get a dm to de-level you. what I would do, broken down by level. Quote: Class Race Fighter(10), Rogue(13), Weapon Master(7), Halfling Abilies STR: 8 DEX: 20 (28) CON: 14 WIS: 8 INT: 14 CHA: 8 30 Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature) F 01: Fighter(1): Dodge, Weapon Finesse F 02: Fighter(2): Weapon Focus: Dagger F 03: Fighter(3): Blind Fight F 04: Fighter(4): DEX+1, Mobility, (DEX=21) F 05: Fighter(5) F 06: Fighter(6): Spring Attack, Expertise F 07: Fighter(7) F 08: Fighter(8): DEX+1, Whirlwind Attack, (DEX=22) Ro 09: Rogue(1): Knockdown, 4 Intimidate Here, max tumble here WM 10: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Dagger WM 11: Weapon Master(2) WM 12: Weapon Master(3): DEX+1, Improved Critical: Dagger, (DEX=23) WM 13: Weapon Master(4) WM 14: Weapon Master(5) WM 15: Weapon Master(6): Improved Knockdown WM 16: Weapon Master(7): DEX+1, (DEX=24) Ro 17: Rogue(2): {Evasion} F 18: Fighter(9): Weapon Specialization: Dagger Ro 19: Rogue(3): Max tumble, don't put >30 points in it, {Uncanny Dodge I} Ro 20: Rogue(4): DEX+1, (DEX=25) Ro 21: Rogue(5): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=26) Ro 22: Rogue(6) Ro 23: Rogue(7) Ro 24: Rogue(8): DEX+1, Armor Skin, (DEX=27) Ro 25: Rogue(9) Ro 26: Rogue(10): Improved Evasion Ro 27: Rogue(11): Epic Weapon Focus: Dagger Ro 28: Rogue(12): DEX+1, (DEX=28) Ro 29: Rogue(13): Defensive Roll, Get UMD here if you want, you want either 12 after cha or max F 30: Fighter(10): Epic Dodge, Epic Weapon Specialization: Dagger, Max Discapline here replace dagger with whatever you want. skill levels are noted in the leveling up thing. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Tue, May 16 2017, 0:06 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Dont think I can change the build now since I had to get it approved, but I can try the build you given some ot her time! I didn't take the dodge thinking it was probably a reason for Kobra not to bring it on the list. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Tue, May 16 2017, 1:08 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Budly wrote: Dont think I can change the build now since I had to get it approved, but I can try the build you given some ot her time! I didn't take the dodge thinking it was probably a reason for Kobra not to bring it on the list. how did you take wm then without dodge |
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| Author: | Budly [ Tue, May 16 2017, 23:52 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Commie wrote: Budly wrote: Dont think I can change the build now since I had to get it approved, but I can try the build you given some ot her time! I didn't take the dodge thinking it was probably a reason for Kobra not to bring it on the list. how did you take wm then without dodge I never went WM. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Wed, May 17 2017, 0:33 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Budly wrote: Commie wrote: Budly wrote: Dont think I can change the build now since I had to get it approved, but I can try the build you given some ot her time! I didn't take the dodge thinking it was probably a reason for Kobra not to bring it on the list. how did you take wm then without dodge I never went WM. sorry. you quoted kobra talking about a WM build in the first sentence and I thought you went wm. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sat, May 11 2019, 14:40 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Bumping this! Found out on Discord I can tweak up Budly a bit more so I requested them to post it in here to see what can be done about it. |
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| Author: | Mask and Riddle [ Sat, May 11 2019, 15:18 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
I'm assuming your starting stats, and changing some a little to maximize your abilities: Str: 10 Dex: 19 Con: 11 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 8 (unless you have a reason for needing Cha: 10, then I would do Con 10, Wis 11, Cha 10) Technically, you don't need 10 ranger levels, you only need 9 for dual wielding. You could do 9 ranger and 5 fighter so you can take weapon specialization in pre epic and EWS in epic. I also don't see a 3rd rogue specialization feat. You should have 3. Maybe Blinding Speed was the 3rd? Pre Epic feats: Blindfight Weapon Finesse Weapon Focus (dagger or kukri) because you can't dual wield shortswords without a -4 penalty for being small) Imp Crit (dagger or kukri) Weapon Specialization (dagger or kukri) KD IKD Great Fort Exotic weapon (kukri if you want too) Dodge (for epic dodge) Epic feats: EWF: (dagger or kukri) EWS: (dagger or kukri) Armor Skin Epic Prowess Epic Dodge on level 16 rogue I'll expand more later, have to go for now |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sat, May 11 2019, 16:09 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Blinding Speed probably was that! I screwed up the build somewhere! |
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| Author: | freaxxshow1338 [ Sat, May 11 2019, 17:45 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Dodge is Not needed for Epic Dodge. 25+ Dex Improved Evasion Defensive Roll Tumble 30 Thats all you need. |
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| Author: | Gravemaskin [ Sun, May 12 2019, 10:00 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
I'll give my suggestion. I thought it's funny because it lets you keep Budly's ranger theme as the main focus, and embrace the meme of Budly fighting everyone by going favored enemy PC races. 21 ranger, 6 fighter, 3 rogue. Take all rogue levels at epic levels to keep full BAB. 12 str 17(24) dex 12 con 14 int 14 wis 8 cha 198 skill points total. enough to max out Discipline, tumble, umd, heal, animal empathy, spot Pros: * 4(5 if you don't grab epic prowess) favored enemies, I'd recommend picking either common monster types for PvE like Undead, Outsider etc. OR 4/5 PC races. * Bane of Enemies - extra 2d6 bonus damage against favored enemies, totalling 2d6+5 with favored enemy. This gets you out of the low damage hole that dex users can end up in by using the ranger class niche for it rather than another class such as WM. It also lets you murderize favored enemy PCs in 6 seconds flat if they are flatfooted for any reason. * standard WS/EWS bonii * Evasion * Both good fort and reflex, easily hitting low to mid 40's with standard Abyss shop and mythalled gear. * Can DC request Barkskin to free up the +4/+5 natural armor amulet for something better like a +6 unisave one for instance. * Can +5/keen both weapons, allowing you to Mythal some extra stats on your weapons such as bonus str, dex or con to free up other gear slots * Full access to all ranger spells, both the worthwhile ones and the PnP ones for events * 21 Animal companion to help clear stuff * Decent spot, even without epic skill focus if you have spotting gear on the sly. Cons: * 50ish AC with standard abyssal/mythalled gear, +7 more if swapping dualwielding for sword and shield. * 47 AB(46), 45(44) dualwielding unbuffed. It's ok I guess, has the potential to get buffed out the wazoo with proper potions/mages around.(parenthesis stats is if you switch out epic prowess for another favored enemy) * You have to go for daggers or kukri since they are the only ones that count as offhand light for halflings. Kukri is decent but needs the extra feat. Dagger is meh but can get 2d6 bonus damage instead of the normal 2d4 cap for 1 handers due to shit base stats. I'd say go with the kukri, those crits are going to be frequent and deadly against favored enemies. Still listing it as a con though. * 318 base HP without con gear or buffs. Below average. * You have to decide on build creation what to focus on, PvP or PvE content due to Favored enemy/Bane of Enemy. * Pain in the ass to level, even with the animal companion because rogue levels are grabbed late and bane of enemies only comes into play at level 30. |
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| Author: | Budly [ Sun, May 12 2019, 10:37 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Looks interesting! And lots of favoured enemy. But he is simply missunderstood! |
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| Author: | Mask and Riddle [ Tue, May 14 2019, 22:18 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Halfling, 14 int, rogue 16/ranger 10/fighter 4, starting on a rogue level will net: 19*10, 10*6, 4*4= 266 skill points 33 discipline 33 hide 33 move silently 30 tumble 21 UMD So far that’s 108, 116 remaining You can really be a primary rogue with this build, putting points into search, listen, spot. Disarm and open lock require very little skill point investment, as does craft trap, but set trap takes a lot. Thinking more... |
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| Author: | Budly [ Tue, May 14 2019, 23:30 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
That looks interesting indeed! |
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| Author: | bobofwestoregonusa [ Tue, Jun 11 2019, 5:16 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A rebuild for Budly |
Get yourself that sweet 15 spellcraft and put on spellcraft gloves when you run into save spam to save yourself some pain. You can still roll a 1 vs anything but I'd rather fail only on a 1. I can talk options for optimizing saves when I've done some thinking but halfling essentially get a second luck of heroes feat for free from their racial so they can get better saves than just about anyone but dwarves in some cases. |
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