AMIA ARCHIVE
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/

Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=82654		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Shadowfiend [ Wed, Jun 24 2015, 12:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
I was thinking maybe a bard 15 Divine champion 10 Knight Commander 5 would be cool?

I was thinking a non ecl race, with strength as the focused stat (ending with 22-24), I am just wondering though if the build has enough bard lvls? and would it be viable?

Need advice on how to do this!
Author:  lilmarcat [ Wed, Jun 24 2015, 12:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
16 bard will give you 6th level spells and +5ac on your song
I'd recommend 17bard 8DC or 19/6 depending on whether you want spells/skill points for bard or feats/saves for DC.

Also remember that BAB is only affected pre-epic levels, but taking DC levels in epic (except the first one) will give you epic feats
Author:  Lascer [ Wed, Jun 24 2015, 13:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
You will want at least bard 16, for the almost maxed out bard song. You can get lasting inspiration on bard 20 too, so that might something you want to go for with that much bard in the build.
Author:  davis114 [ Wed, Jun 24 2015, 14:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
I'd go something along the lines of 21/4/5. That'll net you that sweet, sweet lasting inspiration. 25 Bard / 5 KC is pretty fearsome in its own right, but if you have to include DC, take 4 pre epic. Your build will work, but a heavy bard build without lasting inspiration won't ever really stack up to one that's got it.
Author:  Bobo_Underhill [ Wed, Jun 24 2015, 15:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
Davis has it.

You really, really, really want to get Lasting Inspiration (at least bard 20). Those 6 extra bard levels do more for you than the same amount of divine champion levels. Until you get lasting, playing as a bard is like being a pit bull on a short leash. I wouldn't quite argue that it isn't viable to have less bard levels, you really need a good justification for not taking lasting, and 6 Divine champion levels aren't it.

I've run Andrew a couple of different ways. He's been a Bard/Fighter/DC before. He's currently a Bard 25/KC 5 (played as Crusader levels). Those levels before you grab lasting but after you reach epic are pretty frustrating.
Author:  TheCortroy [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 5:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
I might also suggest maybe snagging a class with Uncanny Dodge. Bard gets most of their AC through dodge and without it if you happen to get caught flat-footed your screwed. (Bard/Curse Song leaves you flat footed until you re-engage.)

A fun build I made with my Orog is 17 bard/2 barb/10 divine champ. The divine champ can easily be replaced with KC and just add more bard instead. (You could get lasting with the later route also.)

powerbuilder edit: 24 bard is preferred in all bard builds due to the fact of greater dispelling affecting you, or 25 for that one extra AC. But if you plan on spending most of your time roleplaying that might not affect you much. :wink:
Author:  Shadowfiend [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 15:51 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
I did not consider uncanny dodge, this makes things a bit more tricky. Do you need 24 bard lvls for PvE?
And also, does barb rage and bard song stack?
Author:  Lascer [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 16:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
I'm sure they stack, but are both very level dependent; You aren't going to get much from one of them.

What are you trying to do with the character? It's role and concept will change what you want to do. Going DC, with a focus on STR, you should probably look at DevCrit, though you need a min STR of 25. With the original idea being heavy on the DC, it sounds like you want more of a front liner with support abilities. Bard is one of those classes, like all casters, people are going to suggest you keep pushing more and more into, but it's also the only caster that doesn't NEED sole focus of a build to work.

Re: Uncanny Dodge
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Uncanny_dodge wrote:
Contrary to its name, uncanny dodge does not allow a character to retain dodge bonuses to AC when flat-footed, only the dexterity bonus.
Author:  Shadowfiend [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 17:38 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
YEah, I was aiming for a front liner with support abilities. And thinking about it the character won't have very much dex either way, so I won't cry about the uncanny dodge especially now as I know how it works. I am looking at dev crit, it's all a bit feat heavy and/or ability heavy.

Before reading the newest comments, I also considered bard 21 fighter 4 KC 5, for close to max ab and a really decent dps with epic weapon spec.
Author:  davis114 [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 17:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
Yup, that's how I'd roll it.

Edit: If you want Dev Crit, I'd go fighter instead of DC on those 4 pre epic levels. For the extra feats.
Author:  Lascer [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 18:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
Bard can be a front liner, but you don't have to max it to be useful as support. Bard 16 gets an almost maxed out bard song, and 16 uses of it which works out to 16 minutes. You'd have to pay attention to it like divine shield/might, using it before fights instead of whenever, but it can cover the entire time between rests cycles. Lasting inspiration is just the easy button, giving your buff a longer duration which gives you more freedom to use curse song. Going for dispel immunity would push you more into the support role.

I'd stick to your concept more, and go bard 17/DC 8/KC 5. Go bard 16/KC 4 pre-epic, leaving the last bard for a tumble dump and giving you 4 bonus epic feats. Leaves you plenty of feats for devcrit. The KC bonuses alone are good support, plus bard song when it's most useful. Bard21/Fighter4/KC5 is pretty much the standard support build, so you won't go wrong with that, but I like to make more interesting builds myself.
Author:  davis114 [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 18:19 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
There's nothing wrong with that build, either. I just cringe at the idea of making a bard without Lasting, the same way I cringe at making a dex build without Epic Dodge. But that's just my personal preference.

So I'd go with whatever you feel fits your character concept better at this point.
Author:  GreatPigeon [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 18:31 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
davis114 wrote:
There's nothing wrong with that build, either. I just cringe at the idea of making a bard without Lasting, the same way I cringe at making a dex build without Epic Dodge. But that's just my personal preference.

So I'd go with whatever you feel fits your character concept better at this point.



Lasting Winspiration or bust.
Author:  TheCortroy [ Mon, Jun 29 2015, 19:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Uncanny_dodge wrote:
Contrary to its name, uncanny dodge does not allow a character to retain dodge bonuses to AC when flat-footed, only the dexterity bonus.


Yeesh, if that's actually the case unless if your heavy dex screw that then. Damn nwn for being vague. :(
Author:  Shadowfiend [ Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:34 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
I don't think I ever mentioned going DC myself, as I feel it's a class you need a lot of lvls in to be powerful. I mentioned Bard 21/Knight commander 5/ fighter 4 though, and I can understand that KC was confused with DC. But, will this build be a good support/front liner mix?
Author:  davis114 [ Tue, Jun 30 2015, 13:42 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
Quote:
Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
Author:  Shadowfiend [ Tue, Jun 30 2015, 16:18 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
davis114 wrote:
Quote:
Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races


oh it was a part of my initial idea, but the dc part kinda fell away when I made the character concept
Author:  joe15552 [ Tue, Jun 30 2015, 16:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
this thread has inspired me to build a dev crit bard
Author:  Lascer [ Tue, Jun 30 2015, 20:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
Heh, if the concept isn't a DC anymore, then yeah you should go for the fighter/KC version with winspiration. It's solid. You can take lasting inspiration on bard 20 too, assuming you meet the requirements, which might work out more easily to nab EWS on your fighter levels (or leave that last bard level for late in the build just for the tumble dump). I'd take the KC levels as early as possible in that build, since you can max out it's relevant ability earlier.
Author:  Uberuce [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 18:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bard/DC/KC - non ecl races
Shadowfiend wrote:
I mentioned Bard 21/Knight commander 5/ fighter 4 though, and I can understand that KC was confused with DC. But, will this build be a good support/front liner mix?


Yes, in that Bards aren't very squishy; hitpoints'n'saves are poor, but AC is high. Your biggest drawback for being impressive on the front line is that Bard only gets Bardsong, GMW and War Cry for damage enhancement, and your pals will get the first two anyway but the Epic Weapon Spec from Ftr4 will help a fair bit.

I have used Bard20/Cleric10, Bard21/WM5/Ftr4 and Bard26/CoT2/Ftr2 (Devcrit Greatsword) to try and get some pain in, and of the three, I think I enjoyed the greatsworder the most, although that was when DC was CoT and Devcrit still killed.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/