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Feats and Skills
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=82158		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  davis114 [ Thu, May 21 2015, 16:42 PM ]
Post subject:  Feats and Skills
You guessed it. All questions on feats and skills go here.

Examples:

Why is spot more effective than listen?

What are the pre-requisites for Epic Dodge?

Why is blind-fight so great? (Don't actually ask me this. I'll seriously hit you.)
Author:  Tequilus [ Sat, May 30 2015, 20:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
What would the minimum level be for craft skills to apply the best mythals?
Author:  Solvaras [ Sun, May 31 2015, 14:17 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
The minimum is zero. You craft a set of equipment that has +5 to craft weapon/craft armor/spellcraft on every piece. That will give you enough ranks to mythal your own gear.
Author:  Liz [ Sat, Jul 04 2015, 18:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Turn Undead
Is investing domains and feats into Turning Undead worthwhile at all on Amia?

I read the NWN Wiki page for turning, and found this:

NWN Wiki wrote:
The total hit dice of all affected creatures is limited to 2d6 plus the turner's charisma modifier and level.

I highlighted that "and level" because it's different than PnP turning, and if it's accurate, turning is *way* more powerful in NWN than in PnP. Without that "and level," the best you could consistently hope to turn is about 20-ish hit dice of undead (assuming an average 2d6 roll, and assuming a Charisma build with a modifier of +13 or so.) That's not a lot of hit dice at all. But with the "and level," a dedicated cleric is looking at being able to reliably affect way over 40 hit dice, maybe even 50. That's kind of a lot, isn't it? In PvP, it's certainly enough to affect a max level PC shifted into undead shape, or an aasimar / tiefling / genasi PC if you have the Good / Evil domains. (And even better if you have the Sun domain.) In PvE though, is that enough to be able to reach any of the cooler undead monsters on the server? Or are they wandering around with just stupid numbers of hit dice like 60 or more? Or is the wiki just crazy wrong about that "and level," and turning in NWN works just like turning in PnP? Does anyone have any experience with this?
Author:  Opustus [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 0:31 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
I rolled a Smiter Pal29/Clerk1 with Sun and Good domains that never got to its completion, but till his mid-twenties he consistently turned undead and outsiders to smithereens. It works wonders against most undead and even in Zanshibon, but certain monsters, if I remember correctly, sport a hefty score of SR, which is converted directly into their HD, practically nullifying your Turn's effect. It's still more of a gimmick, but fun as all the hecks.
Author:  joe15552 [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 0:38 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
The reason it's more of a gimmick is because the turn only fears things. In order to destroy things, you still have to have a character level that is double their HD.


...right?
Author:  Liz [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 0:45 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
Well sure, but it's way, way easier to destroy something when it's cowering in terror than when it's trying to eat your face. :D
Author:  joe15552 [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 0:48 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
I keep thinking I want to make a character that focuses on turning things... I guess it could be awesome when hasted running all over the place hacking away at stuff.... I dunno... maybe the rp would be awesome.
Author:  Opustus [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 1:02 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
Looking at the wiki notes on Turn Undead, I'm kind of confused by its mechanics.

Is the highest possible DC you can destruct by Turning is Roll20 + CHA14 + Sun Domain 4 + 4 from level modifier (if I understood that part correctly?) = 42/2 = 21? I could swear I've blasted higher HD undead than that, so does it also count in the Clerk/BG/Pally CL or is that the level modifier part?
Author:  Liz [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 1:18 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
That's the reason I was so curious about the "and level" part on that page.

NWN Wiki wrote:
The total hit dice of all affected creatures is limited to 2d6 plus the turner's charisma modifier and level.

If this is accurate, then I think the biggest creature you could just straight blow up via turning would be:

Turning roll 20 + CHA Mod 14 + Sun Domain 4 + cleric level 30 = 68 divided by 2 = 34 hit dice.

(The +/-4 roll is a separate thing.)
(Obvs, alter the math accordingly if your CHA mod is super cool.)
Author:  Opustus [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 2:18 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
The "affected creatures" pertains to the number of undead turned, not the check itself. But yus, I'd imagine your calculation is correct. Could easily test it IG on a test server, since the Turn's unchanged on Amia, methinks. And what the heck is that -/+ 4 thingmy?
Author:  Liz [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 18:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
Opustus wrote:
And what the heck is that -/+ 4 thingmy?

There's two separate rolls to turning. One to find how may total hit dice of undead you can turn, and one to find how high an individual target you can turn.

So like, say you roll your rolls and come up with the results that you can turn 30 total hit dice of undead, and individual undead up to 10 hit dice. If you were surrounded by a horde of zombies led by one 12 hit die vampire, you'd turn the zombies starting with the closest, but you'd have to skip over the vampire even if it was right adjacent to you, because even though you can turn 30 total HD, the vampire's 12 HD > your cap of 10.

The +/-4 roll applies to that second roll, to determine the individual maximum HD monster you can turn. Not to the first, to determine the total number of aggregate HD you can turn.
Author:  Opustus [ Sun, Jul 05 2015, 20:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Turn Undead
Phooey, that was hard to make out. Thanks!
Author:  NAUX [ Fri, Jul 10 2015, 19:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
How does the Improved Disarm work when using an unarmed or creature weapon?

This is the standard rule for Disarm:

Quote:
During a disarm if either target or attacker is unarmed or using a creature weapon (no main-hand weapon), a disarm attempt will count both weapons as equal size. Therefore, the attack modifier is -6, regardless of the other weapon.


So since Improved Disarm does this:

Quote:
The penalty to make a disarm attempt is reduced to -4.


Does that mean that the modifier for the attacker using unarmed or creature weapon has -4 whilst the defender has -6?
Author:  Lascer [ Fri, Jul 10 2015, 19:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
The defender just gets a discipline check against the attack roll, they don't get a modifier applied to it. The unarmed attacker just ignores other weapon size (meaning they can disarm a greatsword just as well as a kama). If the defender is unarmed... it seems the disarm attempt is useless anyways, though the attacker will still ignore the weapon size difference (so they don't get that bonus AB the usual formula would apply to the attack).
Author:  LunarBloom [ Tue, Jul 28 2015, 22:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Can Metamagic Feats be taken on Non-Caster classes? Or do I absolutely need to be taking a Bard/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer/Wizard level?
Author:  Liz [ Tue, Jul 28 2015, 22:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
LunarBloom wrote:
Can Metamagic Feats be taken on Non-Caster classes? Or do I absolutely need to be taking a Bard/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer/Wizard level?

They have to be taken on a level of a spellcasting class, yes. Why would you even want a feat that improves spellcasting, if you're not a spellcaster?
Author:  LunarBloom [ Tue, Jul 28 2015, 22:52 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Well, for class mixes! E.g: Sorcerer/Rogue or Wizard/Fighter ;)
Author:  Liz [ Tue, Jul 28 2015, 22:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
O, gotcha. I misunderstood the question. :)
Author:  Lascer [ Wed, Jul 29 2015, 4:42 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Looking at the wikia, metamagic feats are considered general feats. Which means they can be taken by any character that meets their requirements (which all include certain levels of spell casting ability).

However, a brief look at the classes says that some are simply barred from taking certain feats at all when levelling up as that class.
Ex: Rogue is not allowed to take quicken spell for some reason. It doesn't seem to specifically block any other metamagic feats from rogue levels.

I feel like I've taken metamagic feats on non-caster levels, but I'm not 100% on that That does seem to be what the rules imply. Obviously bonus feats are restricted though.
Author:  Astro_Black [ Mon, Aug 03 2015, 9:35 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Has the epic feat blinding speed been changed yet?
Author:  Solvaras [ Mon, Aug 03 2015, 15:39 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Nope. It's still the nwn version.
Author:  LunarBloom [ Mon, Aug 17 2015, 18:36 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Does Camouflage stack with Mass Camouflage?
Author:  Rigela [ Mon, Aug 17 2015, 18:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Yup! And given how long those spells last, they are great buffs to have.
Author:  LunarBloom [ Mon, Aug 17 2015, 18:44 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Cool, thanks!
Author:  dinosaur [ Thu, Sep 17 2015, 17:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
considering how easy it for players to buff hide why oh why would anyone think spot is more useful than listen? especially considering bardic listen buffs...for example
Author:  Naivatkal [ Thu, Sep 17 2015, 18:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Because Listen only fires once a round (or something) and Spot is like a million. Also, you can easily buff Spot higher than Hide so Spotters have the advantage. And anyone stealthy is going to have like 80+ MS anyways, which means you still need to buff your Listen really high with a smaller number of chances to get it to register.
Author:  That Guy [ Thu, Sep 17 2015, 20:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Naivatkal wrote:
And anyone stealthy is going to have like 80+ Listen anyways


I don't understand this.... how does being stealthy equate to having 80+ listen?
Author:  Naivatkal [ Thu, Sep 17 2015, 20:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
*coughs* I mean MS, haha.
Author:  That Guy [ Thu, Sep 17 2015, 20:12 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Oh! See, now that makes perfect sense... :)
Author:  Maved [ Thu, Oct 01 2015, 6:32 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Use magic Device.

Are there benefits for maxing UMD (30) on the Amia server? or is there a certain cap like "get to 20 then stop because anything more is wasted"

I know crafted items like wands and scrolls have caps, and for the life of me I haven't been able to figure out if it's worth going the full 30.
Author:  Tyris [ Mon, Oct 12 2015, 15:18 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
With limited skill points in F/WM/DD other than discipline, where should I put the points? Spot which is a class skill or cross-class the few extras to something like spellcraft or Tumble to help saves a bit?
Author:  Raua [ Mon, Oct 12 2015, 15:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Spellcraft, Spellcraft, SPELLCRAFT!!!!

+1 Universal saves versus spells per 5 Ranks in it (Int mod/Item bonuses included in calculation) It's a must, especially if you have a low wisdom or will save naturally.

15 Tumble (+3 AC) is better than none, so I would say to go for that if you can, even if it's cross class.

Spot is good if you take either a DD level last or WM level last (Since it's a class skill for both!)

I would probably prioritize them (Mechanics-wise) like this, Tumble, Spellcraft, Spot. Definitely Tumble, Spellcraft if you can, Spot if you like.
Author:  Tyris [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 2:12 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
What affect does the Defensive Awareness feats have on Tumble?
Author:  Solvaras [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 12:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Not much affect. You loose your tumble ac if you're flat footed, and uncanny dodge/defensive awareness doesnt change that.
Author:  maglorine [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 12:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
I went cross class Tumble Spellcraft on my DD too. There's a lot of good Spellcraft gear you can slap on for mythal crafting and the saves bonus is good too if you have room for Spellcraft gear in your kit. Since its cross class I didn't go too heavy but it requires training so even if you just take 5 ranks it's worth it.
Author:  That Guy [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 13:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Remember, spellcraft works in 5's... so, if you are going bare minimum, go for 5. Also, keep in mind, your INT mod adds to spellcraft once you put points in. IE: 14 INT needs only 3 spellcraft points to hit 5 spellcraft.
Author:  Solvaras [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 14:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
If you cant put 20+ points into spellcraft, dont. A bard can curse song you and give you negative spellcraft saves. If you dont have any points in spellcraft, they cant.
Author:  Raua [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 17:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Solvaras wrote:
If you cant put 20+ points into spellcraft, dont. A bard can curse song you and give you negative spellcraft saves. If you dont have any points in spellcraft, they cant.


Yep~ Invest! :lol:
Author:  Tyris [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 18:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
You are talking not just base through right? Base will be 17 + INT modifier + potion will get you past 20 for sure.
Author:  Raua [ Wed, Oct 14 2015, 19:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Yep, not necessarily about the base scores, you could buff it higher with items or potions, but that's temporary and gear based, You should try to get it as high as possible. And because Spellcraft is a class skill for DD, it shouldn't be too hard! :)
Author:  MightNMagic [ Thu, Oct 15 2015, 0:59 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Spellcraft is nice to have, but it's benefits are drastically overstated as it's bugged so seriously that it's largely useless (it doesn't work on spells and effects that have a duration). It is worth having, but it's not the gravy people think it is.

LunarBloom wrote:
Does Camouflage stack with Mass Camouflage?


Rigela wrote:
Yup! And given how long those spells last, they are great buffs to have.


When I played my druid ages ago, they did not. I'm not sure they should as it's a known bug and you're not intended to stack bonuses of the same "type."
Author:  Tyris [ Fri, Oct 16 2015, 4:33 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Raua wrote:
Yep, not necessarily about the base scores, you could buff it higher with items or potions, but that's temporary and gear based, You should try to get it as high as possible. And because Spellcraft is a class skill for DD, it shouldn't be too hard! :)


It's not a class skill, but 16 will still help
Author:  Raua [ Fri, Oct 16 2015, 4:56 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
HERP, I thought you meant DD as in Dragon Disciple.. Not Dwarven Defender

:oops:
Author:  Maverick00053 [ Fri, Oct 16 2015, 13:27 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
DD is the usual abbreviation for Dragon Disciple and DwD for Dwarven Defender. For future reference.
Author:  Tyris [ Sat, Oct 17 2015, 1:56 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Ahhh, my bad.
Author:  Vortex [ Sun, Nov 01 2015, 19:18 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
I saw a great post about Discipline but can't find it, so will ask again:

I have a swordspell build, can allocate up to 31 skill points to Discipline.

What's the magic number of Discipline ranks that one needs to make it useful? Wiki says "Check: The DC is equal to the attacker's attack roll." So that means Discipline needs to be greater than opponent's attack roll to be useful. Does that mean a total Discipline around 65-70 is good? Is that difficult to achieve?

Just trying to figure out if I'm wasting 31 skill ranks that I can use elsewhere. Thanks.
Author:  Raua [ Sun, Nov 01 2015, 19:51 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Vortex wrote:
I saw a great post about Discipline but can't find it, so will ask again:

I have a swordspell build, can allocate up to 31 skill points to Discipline.

What's the magic number of Discipline ranks that one needs to make it useful? Wiki says "Check: The DC is equal to the attacker's attack roll." So that means Discipline needs to be greater than opponent's attack roll to be useful. Does that mean a total Discipline around 65-70 is good? Is that difficult to achieve?

Just trying to figure out if I'm wasting 31 skill ranks that I can use elsewhere. Thanks.


Welp, to put it simply, when it comes to Discipline. Either take 30+ Ranks in it, or none at all. The wiki is pretty good about describing how it works.

If your opponent's AB is say, 40. They can roll a grand total of 60 on their attack roll. Then you need at least 61 Discipline to be 100% immune to any disarm/Knock down/Called Shot attempt made by them. 65 if they have Improved Knock down (Which they probably do too)

Not everyone's AB is going to be 40, though~

If I were to take a stab in the dark, I'd say the average AB is 46/46/41/36/31 (Hasted) on Amia


Safest bet is having over 70+Getting that isn't too difficult, Mythalling it onto some various bits and bobs of gear here and there goes a long way~ It's easier to do if you have a strength built character, but my 8-STR Mage can get that if I gear her right.

But this is also why the epic gloves of discipline are so popular! :P
Author:  MightNMagic [ Mon, Nov 02 2015, 0:46 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
Well, 45ish is a fair "average" ab for PCs, but true strike pots will add another 15 AB plus a lucky roll of 20 could get you to an 80 roll. Mind you, if you see someone drink a potion you can simply take a jog away from them for a round or two to get them to waste the pot.

High level mobs don't really use discipline-opposed actions a whole lot to be honest. To be useful against them, you don't need to have 33 points invested or none. There's plenty of discipline to be had with the mythalling system, a thieves hood (+10), bracers of a locking grip (+8), and a few random +6 items will get you to the +50 cap.
Author:  NiwatoriKami [ Tue, Nov 17 2015, 6:19 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Feats and Skills
For a human-based Tiefling, are medium weapons on main hand considered a finnessable weapon to take advantage of weapon finnesse or is it just small and tiny where the feat can be effective?
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