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Is there -any- good Spellsword builds focusing primarily on Sorc, that don't use Paladin or Blackguard? It seems terrible to take a few levels of Paladin and not roleplay them.

What's a good cookie-cutter Half-Elf AA build? I've never played an AA.

Mercedes wrote:

Is there -any- good Spellsword builds focusing primarily on Sorc, that don't use Paladin or Blackguard? It seems terrible to take a few levels of Paladin and not roleplay them.

Wizard will be superior in this aspect, however if you want sorcsword:
sorc 24 fighter 4 rogue 2
sorc 24 knight commander 5 rogue 1
sorc 24 divine champion 4/5 rogue 1/2
get 20 charisma and 26 strength and dev crit stuff.

As for AA, you can do pretty much any class combination so long as you get a stupid amount of Arcane Archer levels. Off the top of my head, a combination of dragon disciple / AA / Bard would probably be quite strong. Same for just picking up regular fighter for all those nice feats and +6 flat damage, rogue for sneaks... you can't really go wrong. I would give a better build example but I am tired and sick at the moment so my head is not clear enough to properly conjure up some cheesy builds.

Last edited by Silvarus on Tue, Apr 08 2014, 10:39 AM, edited 2 times in total.

Kamina wrote:

What's a good cookie-cutter Half-Elf AA build? I've never played an AA.

I gave fighter8/bard4/AA18 a spin. It works.

Other interesting options would be rogue/mage/AA, monk20/wizard1/AA9 with zen archery, high spot and insane speed and cleric/mage/AA with divine might. With the Wild Elf subrace you could probably pull off a devcritting build too, but that is likely to be rather underwhelming with the current devcrit implementation.

Mercedes wrote:

Is there -any- good Spellsword builds focusing primarily on Sorc, that don't use Paladin or Blackguard? It seems terrible to take a few levels of Paladin and not roleplay them.

What? The typical spellsword is Wiz(Sorc)/Fighter/Rogue. I don't know where you get BG and Paladin from ;p

Of course, you can include either of those. They are more specialty builds.

Silvarus wrote:

Kamina wrote:

What's a good cookie-cutter Half-Elf AA build? I've never played an AA.

I gave fighter8/bard4/AA18 a spin. It works.

Other interesting options would be rogue/mage/AA, monk20/wizard1/AA9 with zen archery, high spot and insane speed and cleric/mage/AA with divine might. With the Wild Elf subrace you could probably pull off a devcritting build too, but that is likely to be rather underwhelming with the current devcrit implementation.

Which of these would be best on solo-play? I've seen AAs do a lot of soloing so I'm not sure if it's just a cool class thing or they're building something cool.

Do I only need 1 level in my casting class? I've literally never played an AA before and looking for a new playstyle as I've been burned out. Sticking to Half-Elf for my character concept, mind.

Kamina wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

Kamina wrote:

What's a good cookie-cutter Half-Elf AA build? I've never played an AA.

I gave fighter8/bard4/AA18 a spin. It works.

Other interesting options would be rogue/mage/AA, monk20/wizard1/AA9 with zen archery, high spot and insane speed and cleric/mage/AA with divine might. With the Wild Elf subrace you could probably pull off a devcritting build too, but that is likely to be rather underwhelming with the current devcrit implementation.

Which of these would be best on solo-play? I've seen AAs do a lot of soloing so I'm not sure if it's just a cool class thing or they're building something cool.

Do I only need 1 level in my casting class? I've literally never played an AA before and looking for a new playstyle as I've been burned out. Sticking to Half-Elf for my character concept, mind.

Forgot to mention that plain bard/AA also works with a wide range of ratios between the classes. I'd personally like to try a bard21/AA9 if I were not trying to keep my altitis in check.

I found the fighter based AA to be fairly hard to solo due to its low armor class and hit points, but amazing in groups. A cleric-based AA is probably the one that can reliably solo things, but it is more of a cleric build that has just splashed in a few AA levels rather than a build actually made around the AA class, so that might not appeal to you in the same way. The rogue version probably is not very good solo either. The monk version I have no experience with myself, so I can not comment on that.

You need one level of wizard or sorcerer or two levels of bard to qualify for the class, but if you go bard there is usually no reason not to take a few more levels of the class. Bard allows you to take important skills such as tumble, UMD and discipline, so for the cookie cutter fighter based build it is recommended. Making an AA that is also a viable spellcaster is a bit of a challenge, since AA does not progress caster levels, but if I wanted a spellcasting AA I would probably go 21 levels of bard with 9 levels of AA added pre-epic.

I know the feeling. I made Silwe to give me some variety and different flavor of game play after playing a sorcerer and a cleric most of the time.

Silvarus wrote:

Kamina wrote:

Which of these would be best on solo-play? I've seen AAs do a lot of soloing so I'm not sure if it's just a cool class thing or they're building something cool.

Do I only need 1 level in my casting class? I've literally never played an AA before and looking for a new playstyle as I've been burned out. Sticking to Half-Elf for my character concept, mind.

You need one level of wizard or sorcerer or two levels of bard to qualify for the class, but if you go bard there is usually no reason not to take a few more levels of the class. Bard allows you to take important skills such as tumble, UMD and discipline, so for the cookie cutter fighter based build it is recommended. Making an AA that is also a viable spellcaster is a bit of a challenge, since AA does not progress caster levels, but if I wanted a spellcasting AA I would probably go 21 levels of bard with 9 levels of AA added pre-epic.

I know the feeling. I made Silwe to give me some variety and different flavor of game play after playing a sorcerer and a cleric most of the time.

Because I know Bards get that sexy feat, though I assume this will only be taken on my 30th level, does this have much livability buffed and playing solo, do you reckon?

I don't know the character's name, but there was an Elf I partied with before who took down Ice Giants like they were flies being on the same ECL as their intended range. I'm hoping to do the same thing, really :p

Anyone ever made 18 to 20 levels of WM work? Where do two hander wielding folks get survivability from?

18 to 20 levels of WM would be viable, but it is almost always far better to stop at 16, max. That's where they get the most benefits by ending. As for two-handers, they get survivability by....being bards, I guess? Other than that, you pretty much kill things faster than they kill you, or don't go in first. That's how I did it usually.

Thanks! I liked the idea of someone who pursued mastery of their weapon to such a degree to scoff at magic and faith. To a degree. 16 might facilitate that but 19 would look better on the sheet :lol:

Wonder what I'd lose.

Is Dex or Str based WM "better"?

Dex WM with Epic Dodge is the far better choice.

Where does the damage come from?

Uce 3:16–17 wrote:

I have played all three WM types: the Devcrit, Epic Dodge and Epic Damage Reduction models.

The STR base doesn't fit your question since it was Ftr11/WM19(greataxe) therefore no UMD although he does have good gear. He's a gimmick build for maximising AB, of which he sits at 53 unbuffed with his Surestrike, and True Strike potions giving 68. His saves are utterly appalling and he doesn't even have Armourskin, but if you don't manage the trivially simple task of killing him before he starting hitting you, there is a decent chance you won't survive the first round of his damage output and 41DC Devcrit.

The CON base was Ftr7/WM5(heavy flail)/DwD18 and therefore didn't have UMD either, but his gear was oldschool loots and DC items; superb. He ran around at under 20AC but didn't care because he reduced the incoming damage to nil or single figures, and regenerated at +10/round. Against bosses I could win by drinking an Elemental Shield potion and going AFK. In PvP he was utter junk - players get crits all the time, and that cut past his 30/- with ease, and in the meantime his middling AB didn't cut the mustard. I've never played a character with such a huge gulf in PvE and PvP ability. I've since come round to seeing that taking 45 or 47AC and going Ftr8/WM7/DwD15 with a onehander is better; the DR is significant, but the AC does clip off mob crits at the low end of their attack register, so it more than compensates.

The DEX base was Rogue17/WM7(handaxe)/Ftr6, so fitted your bill. He remains one of the best builds I've ever played, certainly the best fighter type. In toe-to-toe Arena type matches he was only afraid of twohandering AB-whore WM's and Barbs; everyone else was going to lose unless he rolled 1 on Fort vs Devcrit. The aforementioned 53AB WM would have ripped him in half even if he did pass the saves, since his HP wasn't great from all the Rogue levels and those greataxe crits weighed in at ~200 a pop. In live PvP, he'd never do anything as dumb as that; full ranks in Hide/MS and enough Set Trap to lay nests of Deadly Acids without gearing up meant he'd be cornersneaking all over the place.

You're awesome.

I just practice what I preach. Thank Uce.

I was getting burned out as well, so decided to go with something different, never really play ranged at all. So making a 6 ranger 18 assassin 6 sd build with longbow. Think this will do alright?

The problem is you miss out on the fourth APR. Ranger4/Assassin12/SD4 would be optimal, but it's so optimal it's impossible. It's also the reason why Assassin is a dunce of a class and why no self-respecting person would ever consider it before Rogue. But really, Ranger10/SD6/Assassin14 is the way to do it; you get a bonus epic feat from Ranger, you learn to make Camouflage out of twigs and berries, and bag the free ITWF. And the APR4, of course.

Hmm, thought I worked it out that if you go 5 ranger 8 assassin 6 sd 1 ranger, you get the four attacks per round. Just means I have to farm out the epic disci gloves at 30.

I want to play a warrior/priest from the Order of the Red Faclon. He would be and aspiring commander-in-training with the intent of eventually joining a proper military faction and helping out through there. However, since I've run into the problem of "fun characters just aren't viable on Amia" in the past, I wanted to get some tips here first.

Are any of the following class combinations viable? I want Paladin or Cleric to be their base class, with Knight Commander being worked in later. I'm also dabbling with the ideas of Fighter or Weapon Master (Longsword) levels as a third class (or taking Paladin AND Cleric in addition to Knight Commander).

Are there any preexisting builds for such a character that I could study?

I will tell you that combining Paladin or Cleric with Knight Commander and Weaponmaster isn't going to work well. WM and KC have 8 combined pre epic feat pre-requisites. Most races only get 7 pre-epic feats, humans get 8. That leaves must have pre epic feats like blindfight and improved critical off the table. Not to mention any feats you might want or need for your base class, like extend spell. Not a good idea.

Kamina wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

Kamina wrote:

Which of these would be best on solo-play? I've seen AAs do a lot of soloing so I'm not sure if it's just a cool class thing or they're building something cool.

Do I only need 1 level in my casting class? I've literally never played an AA before and looking for a new playstyle as I've been burned out. Sticking to Half-Elf for my character concept, mind.

You need one level of wizard or sorcerer or two levels of bard to qualify for the class, but if you go bard there is usually no reason not to take a few more levels of the class. Bard allows you to take important skills such as tumble, UMD and discipline, so for the cookie cutter fighter based build it is recommended. Making an AA that is also a viable spellcaster is a bit of a challenge, since AA does not progress caster levels, but if I wanted a spellcasting AA I would probably go 21 levels of bard with 9 levels of AA added pre-epic.

I know the feeling. I made Silwe to give me some variety and different flavor of game play after playing a sorcerer and a cleric most of the time.

Because I know Bards get that sexy feat, though I assume this will only be taken on my 30th level, does this have much livability buffed and playing solo, do you reckon?

I don't know the character's name, but there was an Elf I partied with before who took down Ice Giants like they were flies being on the same ECL as their intended range. I'm hoping to do the same thing, really :p

Just out of curiosity ... I was wondering if a more strength based Ranger build is actually viable as a means to an end on Amia.

Planning to attempt to start playing again, but due to the time zone I'd end up playing I'd envision a lot of soloing if I was gonna want to level up. So, is a strength based Ranger with companion and all any way forward?

I think a 25 Ranger/4 Fighter/1 Rogue will work fine. You get a half-decent companion once fed with Ice/Fire berries and using the Awaken amulet, with EWS, Sneak and tumble+UMD dump.

25/4/1 is awesome sauce, from my experience of it. The Animal companions are your own pocket weapon master too, when buffed properly.

So I've never done a wizard before, pnp or Amia. I have no idea what feats are best used or what spread though I'm imagining it would involve something like 27/2/1 for tumble and disc dumps. Anyone give me just the basic "Must haves" so I can work on something?

You typically go more fighter levels for the feats, unless you want to pump CL and then just take 1 ranger 1 rogue for bonus feat/skills respectively. I think it works out to 24/4/2 (evasion) or 25/4/1, whichever one nets you spells that can't be beaten by Greater Dispels (less important for PvM after the demise of Udos illithids, AFAIK).

Pre-epic Feats aren't that important (and you have a lot of them to choose) but what you'll really want is Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus in at least one school, either for RP or for nigh-irresistable spells (or both). Item creation feats will turn you into a mercantile machine (scribe is free for wizards, but potions are great if you have the patience and craft wand is good otherwise). For epic feats you want as many epic spells as you can get - one summon (if you Epic conj focus, go dragon because why not?), epic mage armour, Greater Ruin is nice, Hellball is okay. Other feats should enhance your survivability like armour skin, ESF: Disc.

That's just off the top of my head.

How nasty is the Epic Shade Lord at 20 CL Shadowdancer?

Mercedes wrote:

How nasty is the Epic Shade Lord at 20 CL Shadowdancer?

It's not a good tank, but have it attack someone who's not NEP'd, and they'll fall fast most of the time.

The downside is simply things immune to negative damage. Never go 20 SD if you're looking for a good build, go 20 SD for the lore and avenues of exploration.

Kamina wrote:

Mercedes wrote:

How nasty is the Epic Shade Lord at 20 CL Shadowdancer?

It's not a good tank, but have it attack someone who's not NEP'd, and they'll fall fast most of the time.

The downside is simply things immune to negative damage. Never go 20 SD if you're looking for a good build, go 20 SD for the lore and avenues of exploration.

With all those immunities it still can't tank?

maglorine wrote:

Kamina wrote:

Mercedes wrote:

How nasty is the Epic Shade Lord at 20 CL Shadowdancer?

It's not a good tank, but have it attack someone who's not NEP'd, and they'll fall fast most of the time.

The downside is simply things immune to negative damage. Never go 20 SD if you're looking for a good build, go 20 SD for the lore and avenues of exploration.

With all those immunities it still can't tank?

Not as well as you'd expect. With potion buffs and umd'd stuff an SD can provide, it can hold its own but typically not for long in epic dungeons for the SD to solo.

I agree with the lore/roleplay aspect of heavy SD. I think it's cool, but I just had a curiosity.

What is one of the better ways to build a greatsworder: Paladin, WM, Barbarian?

Bard.

Mercedes wrote:

I agree with the lore/roleplay aspect of heavy SD. I think it's cool, but I just had a curiosity.

What is one of the better ways to build a greatsworder: Paladin, WM, Barbarian?

The best way to build a greatsworder is to build Frugdar.

I'm not kidding lol. Fighter/WM/Barbarian is so powerful, it's not even funny.

Barb is best when it's con-heavy, right? Is that a CON build or is there some other good aspects of Barbarian I'm not seeing? Are the good rages included in that?

Mercedes wrote:

Barb is best when it's con-heavy, right? Is that a CON build or is there some other good aspects of Barbarian I'm not seeing? Are the good rages included in that?

You don't need super high CON for a barbarian to be effective, it's just icing on the cake.

Shoot for Ferocity Attack (a level 15 rage I think), 7 WM levels (for maximum crit effectiveness), and Improved Knockdown. Anything else is just icing. I personally went for epic weapon specialization, rather than tumble/UMD/sneak attack, and although I'm a bit low on AC and utility, I do insane damage, and almost nobody can beat me if I'm allowed to buff and rage before a fight. If you roll that build, you'll be equally happy, I'm sure.

When in doubt, just use the NwN damage calc, http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/nwn/, and remember that haste and ferocity rage stack, meaning you get two extra attacks per round. Have fun maxxing out your damage output

So, worked out the split to be 5 ranger 8 assassin 6 sd 1 ranger, then assassin which will give me my four attacks per round. Hypothetically speaking, does the 5 sd still give improved evasion. For was thinking if I get the improved evasion from sd, at lvl 14 of assassin, can take defensive roll, then at 18 Epic Dodge? Is such worth the hammering of dex points, it will give me a lower INT, meaning that it'll only be buffed through gear, which I think will settle it at 28=16(12 from gear/potions/buffs) Still building him for the longbow, so trying to get folks opinions on if the build seems viable. (6 ranger 18 assassin 6 SD, Long Bow) So on average the DC would be 10+18+9 (Think that's the ability modifier?)=37? For most rolls, with the death attack and 18-20x3 on longbow? Won't top an AA's constant output of damage.

If you have the time can i have some help making a basic spreaksheet for a trapper?

I look to you since you seem well at it!

I was thinking 24R/1fighter/5 MasterScout
human-Air genasi(+2Dex +2Int,-2Wis-2Cha)

Is this useful at all? I'd be getting the extra feats i need for MS as well as as more skills from the bonuses from air-gen....

But im no builder so i need help.

Ok.... lemme ask a question here: Chugging a potion gives anyone nearby an attack of opportunity, right? Does it also make a person go flatfoot? Does it give any extra bonus to the attack?

Reason I'm asking, is I keep hearing about people chugging true strike potions. Sure, you get 20 AB. But... it's only 9 seconds. That's a round and a half. In -some- fights, that may be the dealbreaker, but... if your opponent(s) get a free shot on you every time you do it and you're a typical tanker type with low(ish) AC, how useful is it really? I'd imagine it comes down to dice rolls, but if a WM has to use that potion to get >60AB to hit >60 AC, the likelihood of a crit is slim, though they will still do regular damage. Then they wash, rinse and repeat until someone drops. I'm betting on the person they are fighting personally, the one with the high AC.

Am I totally off base here? Or... did I miss something else?

It boosts the bejesus out of your chance of landing a Knockdown on people who won't keep track of the item usage in the battle log and learn the SFX/VFX(which are ruled to be IC).

Uce... how so? Lets say opponent "Drinker" vs opponent "Acer"....

Drinker chugs a potion, making his AB, say... 65. Acer has 65 AC. Using KD, essentially drops the AB to 61. Sure, it helps a lot, but... that's the reason? So if they happen to miss the KD, Acer gets an attack of opportunity... every time.

That's assuming Acer doesn't have high discipline.... if they do? Ehh, may negate a lot of the effect.

Ok... was just curious.

Thanks!

Drinker adds 1d20 to AB, will only miss on 3 or less. If they roll high, they most likely get a crit for one thing, but more importantly, the other person needs 85 Discipline to be sure of resisting an IKD, because it bumps up your size category and neatly restores the -4AB drain. Even getting to 75 to resist a Truestrike boosted IKD half the time is a proper pain in the arse for most.

Unless you've got the HP'n'Fort to resist Devcrit(or are immune cos of oogly undeath) and have stratospheric Discipline, it's a vurry poor idea to trade blows with a TS chugger.

The standard tactic is to run away for a bit and then reengage. It works so well that I've never seen the fuss about TS potions either.

Uce... clear this up for me, since, honestly, you seem to really get this stuff.

Improved Knockdown:

Specifics: A character with this feat counts as one size category larger when he makes a knockdown attack. All other knockdown conditions still apply.

You say it negates the -4 attack penalty? I'm not sure, and I've seen this come up before. You would think it might at first glance, but... that statement about all other conditions still apply makes me think all it really does is give the ability to KD larger creatures. I know, the idea that if a critter is a size category below you, you get a +4, negating the penalty, but... does that really make you large instead of medium for the sake of the penalty? I've tried to check ingame, but... never could really get it.

Thanks!

Last edited by Uberuce on Fri, Apr 11 2014, 18:33 PM, edited 2 times in total.

Ah yes, I didn't say that clearly, sorry.

Improved KD doesn't do anything about the AB penalty at the time of striking - it affects the next check made, which is the Attack Roll versus Discipline. That check isn't reported by the battle log, so honestly I have no real idea if it actually works because there's nothing for us to see. You could test it by making an NPC with 20 more Discipline than your character's top AB and spamming IKD on it until you'd rolled 17+ - if they fall over you know IKD works properly. I've never bothered.

Unless a PvP is between polymorphed characters or involving the small races like hin, two PCs duking it are both going to be the same size category, so when you have land an Improved KD because you rolled 20 or beat AC, your Attack Roll, which is 1d20 plus your AB(at that -4 penalty) gets 4 added to it, as if you'd been one size up, and is compared to the target's Discipline.

Hence "neatly restores the -4AB drain."

Ahh, thanks for the explanation, I've seen debates about this for years.

I've edited some more stuffs in, dunno if it's relevant.

*reposts once the last one is done!*
If you have the time can i have some help making a basic spreaksheet for a trapper?

I look to you since you seem well at it!

I was thinking 24R/1fighter/5 MasterScout
human-Air genasi(+2Dex +2Int,-2Wis-2Cha)

Is this useful at all? I'd be getting the extra feats i need for MS as well as as more skills from the bonuses from air-gen....

But im no builder so i need help understanidng what i need and when

How would one combat a person with hide-in-plain-sight, assuming your spot skill is not stupendous? I have blind fight and true seeing, for invisible/concealed characters, but HiPS is the bane of melee. Is there a way to not get annihilated by it?

MisterLich wrote:

How would one combat a person with hide-in-plain-sight, assuming your spot skill is not stupendous? I have blind fight and true seeing, for invisible/concealed characters, but HiPS is the bane of melee. Is there a way to not get annihilated by it?

Befriend a mage.

Hope they haven't nerfed Mordenkainen's Sword. There was certainly talk of doing so when I was leaving, but what the state of play is now, I dunno.

It was by Amia standards a hilariously bad summon, but it had dragon Truesight, so it'd home in and flail away at a HiPSer. If they were canny they'd sit tight and wait for it to expire, since it couldn't meaningfully hurt them, so it really wasn't a great tactic, but it did mean you could always stay out of range or have your mouse roughly in the right part of the screen to hit as they popped out of stealth.

If it still has real TS, then edit the above paragraph into present tense.

If it doesn't, then I question the decision making, given that the above paragraph is still a pretty crappy tactic.

Really, Silvarus is right, although I would tweak it to 'befriend a mage or Evo focus Cleric with 100 Spot, or an anti-SD Shadowdancer.'

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