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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 22 posts ] 
Blue Moon
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jan 02 2016, 21:06 PM 



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Just curious if this treaty between Banites and Salandra is still "active" or a thing? It does say long lasting, but 2009 is -7- years ago, I'm assuming even longer IG time. I'm not very familiar with how Amia operates in terms of its own political history, might've been totally diff set of DMs back then. It doesn't seem to be very common knowledge. At least, I just found out about it. I could try to find out in-game and ask a DM to possess a temple mother NPC for me to talk to, but that seems like quite the effort for something my character should probably already just "know."

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SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jan 02 2016, 21:10 PM 

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Good question. In all honesty it looks like something that would still likely apply, given the "everyone is equal" nature of Salandra and Ilmater, as well as the grounds of the Temple being a pretty neutral zone. But I've never heard about it before this.

Maybe Tormy would know more about this? He's the Loremak.

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Blue Moon
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jan 02 2016, 22:04 PM 



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Exactly. I have no problem with it, it doesn't change how an average Salandran acts much, but I can see it being crucial in a very specific circumstance.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 03 2016, 0:42 AM 

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The treaty was really a written formality and declaration during a time when everyone was up in arms and picking sides. It was the equivalent of Switzerland sayin g"Guys, we're stll neutral, just so you all know!" Yeah, everyone knows it, sometimes you just have to mak sure you say it again here and there during intense times.

Salandra's Temple never chooses sides, never marches on crusades, and never gets involved in wars anyways - the treaty was a move on the Salandrans' side to ensure neutrality and safety from a rigid antagonist known to keep their word, and a move from the Banites' side to secure a safe haven for themselves in case it was needed, and to cut down on anyone who might be standing against them.

The treaty simply spelled out policies that were always (and still are) in effect, and attempted to enforce those policies on roving PC templars, who might have felt obligated to take one side or the other due to moral issues., in order to keep the Temple Grounds safe from reprisal.

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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 03 2016, 1:23 AM 



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TormakSaber wrote:
Salandra's Temple never chooses sides, never marches on crusades, and never gets involved in wars anyways.


Oh really? :D I've seen the opposite too.

That treaty pretty much represents Metalien's policy. That mostly applies to the times when the banites still had a keep or a temple on Amia. Now those banites are pretty much gone.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 03 2016, 2:13 AM 

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That was the policy of the Salandrans their entire existence, outside of any adventuring PCs, or changes that were made in my absence.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 24 2016, 19:48 PM 

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I would imagine a different church would probably know about nor care about the charters of an old church to be honest. Bane is the God of Strife

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Richard_Edmund
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 24 2016, 22:29 PM 

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But even Banites should respect the word of a lawful agreement, at least in my mind. They're evil, but they're not anarchists.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 24 2016, 23:31 PM 

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But Banites aren't outsiders, it's devils who never break an agreement, and nowhere in his portfolio does it say Bane is honorable. In fact Banites are known for their acts of subterfuge just as much as they are known for making war. A Banite isn't someone who should be expected to uphold his word, but rather to adhere to the strict structure of the tyrannical church of bane. That is what their brand of lawful means, to spread like a wild fire over the entire world and swallow it up in a terrible cloud of darkness.

Bane is Forgotten Realms ultimate villain and should never be trusted. The only way to sure you aren't destroyed by bane is to serve him, and he even makes sure to tell you himself in his dogma.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 25 2016, 0:16 AM 

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I feel like it goes without saying that you can have different factions of clergy operating and believing in different ways. Never even played a Banite, but I've interacted with Banite characters who have been honest devils and others who have been shifty cheats that use agreements only as a cover. Greater gods are big. They can have multiple approaches towards the same issue and the diversity of their clergy and orders usually reflect that.

If I had a rank and file Banite making an agreement?

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They'll probably stick to their word, unless self/church-interest suddenly becomes better served by them not sticking to it. Even then, it'd be more of the fine print "aha, I said I wouldn't kill you and your family. I spoke nothing about not beating your wife, selling your child into slavery, and painting your dog pink. Hail Bane-tan!"

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Blue Moon
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 25 2016, 0:35 AM 



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I feel the same way, Bobo and Dark made excellent points, couldn't have said it better.

I think the duality of the treaty's existence, and the ability for individual actions to exist within factions/clergy, just adds to the interest, drama and dynamics of things.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 25 2016, 1:12 AM 

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Incidentally I love that picture as it's used in this conversation.

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corypx
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 25 2016, 2:32 AM 

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bobofwestoregonusa wrote:
Incidentally I love that picture as it's used in this conversation.


But on amia it would be more like......

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 25 2016, 9:28 AM 

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Of course no one needs to actually honor the treaty or anything, but I personally think it's a little odd to want to attack the people that would give you sanctuary no matter what you did.

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Estara
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 25 2016, 18:30 PM 



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Odd? Or stupid? ;)


 
      
bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 26 2016, 2:14 AM 

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Well sure, but eventually the gloves will probably come off when it's time to worship Bane or die

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 26 2016, 2:37 AM 

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That seems silly though. "Switch from your all-loving god that tells you heal everyone, even baddies like us, and worship our god who even screws his own people over from time to time." And yo, Salandran clerics, fall yourselves, so you can worship Bane and then literally be useless to us until you manage to shift your alignments and work up the ranks again.

It's possible for evil to, you know, use groups that do not directly follow their own gods or dogma. To abuse an individual's or a group's own code of conduct or innate nature to get what they want out of them. Manipulation. I feel like Bane would reward them making use of the poor pathetic fools' weakness, forgiveness, and penchant toward healing every stray cat that limps through their doors. The alternatives... So you force all of them to convert. What, 50 or so new lay worshipers don't really do that much for a greater god and the only clerics that helped you no matter what are out of commission for years. Or more likely, most of them down right refuse, because Amia is the center of the Salandran religion and they'd sooner die and you're out both the worshippers and the clerics who'd help you any way.

And Bane's just sitting up there in the Barren Wastes, looking down like...

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 26 2016, 4:02 AM 

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Bane's Dogma wrote:
Serve no one but Bane.


Now I'm not saying it has to happen now, but eventually the dogma comes first

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Richard_Edmund
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 26 2016, 4:48 AM 

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Suppose it fits in with their clique 'world domination' outlook, but in the short-term I'd doubt the Banites would pass up an asset such as the Salandrans. But rather just make sure that there's not enough left over of their enemies to ensure the Salandrans don't resurrect them as well while taking full advantage of Salandran's aid for themselves.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jan 27 2016, 2:29 AM 

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bobofwestoregonusa wrote:
Bane's Dogma wrote:
Serve no one but Bane.


Now I'm not saying it has to happen now, but eventually the dogma comes first

Lovitarans and Hoarrans notoriously work for and alongside banites without converting or being forced to convert to bane.

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Metalien
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jun 03 2016, 12:31 PM 

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It's heartwarming to see Metalien's name still being mentioned in regards to Salandran lore and past actions. I never thought he'd have that much of an effect on events, and to see that some of his actions still have an effect now is great.

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Grymia
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 04 2016, 0:46 AM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
bobofwestoregonusa wrote:
Bane's Dogma wrote:
Serve no one but Bane.


Now I'm not saying it has to happen now, but eventually the dogma comes first

Lovitarans and Hoarrans notoriously work for and alongside banites without converting or being forced to convert to bane.


I imagine at some level there's an understanding and faith they'll eventually see the light. I know I played Dmitria back in the day with a more Long Game outlook on things, if she can get true converts sooner, great news but she didn't want people who solely wanted to convert to Bane for power's sake.

But, from what I do remember of the Sally/Banite treaty it makes a lot of sense.


 
      
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