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Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?
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Author:  bobofwestoregonusa [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 21:35 PM ]
Post subject:  Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

So I am reading into mythology here, and bare in mind that I am doing so extremely loosely in search of references to how Cold Iron is mined or produced and I'm not coming up with much. So far as I can tell, it is just iron.

Anyone with a good deal of knowledge on the subject is free to correct me here since my sources are listed below, none of them are expressly forgotten realms.


Wikipedia - Iron in Folk Lore
TV Tropes - Cold Iron

Anyway, I will ask these questions:

What is Cold Iron? Why is it different from regular iron? What is the reason behind its ability to form actual ore deposits as opposed to being made a specific way that sets it apart from regular iron?

I'd like to go ahead and state that this question does not affect the server a great deal since there are no real ramifications on balance or immersion involved as yet, and there are a great deal larger concerns toward immersion and balance that need addressing at the moment. It's just sort of a question I came up with when reading the descriptions of our other job system metals is all.

Author:  Ego680 [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 21:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, but Cold Iron is an anti-fey material, and it's only found extremely deep underground. So the dwarves tend to monopolize the production of it. It's called cold iron because heating it to forge it removes the anti-fey magic, and thus it can only be cold forged wihout heating.

Author:  Kenneth [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 22:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

Even though we have cold iron deposits here, that's pretty much bullshit and just for mechanical convenience.

The "cold" in cold iron refers to the forging process, not some specific type of iron.

Author:  AngelicReaper [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 22:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

Kenneth wrote:
Even though we have cold iron deposits here, that's pretty much bullshit and just for mechanical convenience.

The "cold" in cold iron refers to the forging process, not some specific type of iron.


He is actually very correct on this, what he is referring too is the process called "Cold casting". Which is a finishing touch that mixes metal powder with a translucent casting. Which is also how in the real world... you get stainless steal.... so Cold iron... unless Amia has something special with it and its home brewed... isnt any diffrent then normal iron.

Author:  slkNihilus [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 22:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

Soul's right: cold iron is iron that's worked through a special method. And, in D&D lore, it's highly effective against fey and one or two other types of beasties as Ego pointed out.

Author:  Luckbringer [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 7:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

My dwarf's favorate topic, metals! From my research on D&D metals (I think I went through every piece of lore on the subject, which is quite limited) cold iron always posed this issue of what cold iron actually is. There are other forum discussions out there with the same question as the lore is not at all clear. (see Candlekeep.)

From DMG, I quote:
Quote:
Iron, Cold: This iron mined deep underground, known for its effectiveness against fey creatures, is forged at a lower temperature to preserve its delicate properties. Weapons made of cold iron cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts. Also, any magical enhancements cost an additional 2,000 gp.

Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron. An arrow could be made of cold iron, but a quarterstaff could not. A double weapon that has only half of it made of cold iron increases its cost by 50%. A two-bladed sword with one end of cold iron and the other end steel would cost 150 gp. Cold iron has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.


Ego shares my understanding as well. It is not common iron, but something unique. Hence, why it is only found deep underground. My interpretation would be as to why it is different from cold forged iron, is to make it something rarer and not as easily obtained to fight against fey (and also some fiends I should add). I would say that the souces on Amia which are above ground are not D&D lore accurate. But that coukd be an Amia lore thing or just an oversight.

In real life yes, cold iron is just iron which is worked cold. But D&D deviates frim this.

Author:  Kenneth [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 8:33 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

In 3.5, Cold Iron isn't even really iron. It's a totally different magical metal.

In old 2nd edition, it was pretty much like it is in real life, which is pure iron, non-alloy. Not even really cold forged. Just unadulterated, 100% iron. No carbon folded in. No other metals in the mix. And, by necessity, usually just cast iron, with limited to no actual forging.

Author:  Luckbringer [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 16:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

For my own reference, where is it described in 2ed? I could not find any reference apart from monster vulnerabilities but not discription of the metal.

Author:  Kenneth [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 16:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

Not sure. I got rid of all my 2nd edition books, but maybe I'll download them later and see if I can find it.

Author:  Dead [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 5:11 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

slkNihilus wrote:
Soul's right: cold iron is iron that's worked through a special method. And, in D&D lore, it's highly effective against fey and one or two other types of beasties as Ego pointed out.


I once heard an explanation I liked very much. Cant remember it exactly but it was said that the cold iron is so mundane that the fey cannot stand it. Something along the lines of the cold iron being worked through the special, even more mundane way than regular iron.

Author:  NinjaClarinet [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 5:15 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

I always just assumed they were weapons that were cold forged. IE, beaten into shape by raw strength and persistence, rather than softening the metal with heat. More the way it's made than the metal itself.

Author:  linlan [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 10:19 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

Luckbringer wrote:
For my own reference, where is it described in 2ed? I could not find any reference apart from monster vulnerabilities but not discription of the metal.


2e references seem to alternate freely from "cold-wrought iron" to "cold iron", and define cold iron as mundane, hence the vulnerabilities to it of some monsters, like Demons and Fey. See below the example of Warlocks.

2e source book wrote:
Fools' Gold
(Alteration, Illusion)
Range: 10 yds.
Components: V, S, M
Duration: 1 hr./level
Casting Time: 1 rd.
Area of Effect: 10 cu. in./level
Saving Throw: Special
Copper coins can temporarily be changed to gold pieces, or brass items turned to solid
gold, for the spell duration by means of this magic. The area of effect is 10 cubic inches
per level--i.e., a 1-inch x 1-inch x 10-inch volume or equivalent, equal to about 150 gold
coins. Any creature viewing the "gold" is entitled to a saving throw vs. spell, which can
be modified by the creature's Wisdom; for every level of the wizard, the creature must
subtract 1 from his dice roll. Thus, it is unlikely that fools' gold will be detected if created
by a high-level caster. If the "gold" is struck hard by an object of cold-wrought iron, there
is a slight chance it will revert to its natural state, depending on the material component
used to create the "gold." If a 25-gp citrine is powdered and sprinkled over the metal as
this spell is cast, the chance that cold iron will return it to its true nature is 30%; if a 50-
gp amber stone is powdered and used, the chance drops to 25%; if a 250-gp topaz is
powdered and used, the chance drops to 10%; and if a 500-gp oriental (corundum) topaz
is powdered and used, there is only a 1% chance that the cold iron will reveal that it is
fools' gold


and...

Quote:
The warlock gains some supernatural immunity or resistance, but also acquires a supernatural vulnerability. For example, he may gain the
ability to only be struck by magical weapons, as well as immunity to sleep and charm spells, resistance to spells of a certain school, immunity to poison, the ability to assume gaseous form (much like a vampire) or some other powerful attribute. The price he pays is a vulnerability such as susceptibility to holy water and turning attempts by priests, the inability to stand contact with common materials such as cold iron or garlic, or the
inability to set foot on sacred ground. (Take a look at the customized limitations in
Chapter 1 for more ideas.) This weakness can be deadly if used against the character by
enemies who discover its existen
ce

Author:  Dead [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 12:04 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Iron vs Cold Iron - is there a disctinction?

NinjaClarinet wrote:
I always just assumed they were weapons that were cold forged. IE, beaten into shape by raw strength and persistence, rather than softening the metal with heat. More the way it's made than the metal itself.


Yeah this is what I meant.

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