AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

So I know it says paladins are immune to fear per progression, but I have to ask what the actual interpretation of this is.

Do they truly not feel fear? Or are they just strong willed enough to feel it and avoid letting it affect them in the heat of the moment?

Perhaps there are even more interpretations?

Just curious what the consensus is communally, or if there's a definitive canonical stance.

OpenTheRift wrote:

Do they truly not feel fear? Or are they just strong willed enough to feel it and avoid letting it affect them in the heat of the moment?

I say 'yes', they do feel fear. They're still mortals. They're just strong willed enough not to let it affect them. Both normally, and magically.

I always considered it as simple as they have some 'Never Back Down' thing going on. They can be crapping their pants, they just won't turn away, though.

With Robert, I played it the following way: "Courage is not the absence of fear. It is what you do despite of it."

Then why can no other character gain this trait? I'd say it's more of a divinely gifted ability to ignore fear rather than just some personal fortitude in spite of it, otherwise you could justify other characters having it.

Oh, obviously there is a divine class component to that ability. But I do not think there is a complete lack of fear.

"Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise)."

They don't fear anything.

Paladins are mortal and human(oid) so it's logical to assume they can have very human-like fears. Heights, dogs, clowns. They're brave, but not fearless. If even the gods can know fear, Paladins can too.

Changed forums since this is a lore discussion.

I have always found that ability amusing if you interpret fear as a survival instinct. :wink:

I think it is more suggestive of the mechanical effects of fear producing traits of other beings or objects, such as the fear spell or dragon fear auras. I would not think it is meant to suggest that paladin's are completly devoid of feeling fear, the emotion, physiological response or however you wish to define it. Fear is an important survival and decision making instinct, an adventurer devoid of fear would probably find themselves having a rather short life span or make very bad choices in life. I'd actually imagine lacking fear would more readily manifest in someone with a low wisdom score, which is not most paladins.

This was lampooned in Order of the Stick pretty much because it's kind of unclear. I don't think everyone is interested in playing Drax-the-Destroyer-like aliens, ie very much like humans save one crucial mental component.

Plus, I can never play a paladin without a fear of public speaking.

I always imagined a paladin's immunity to fear to originate from their zeal - as in when triggered their fight-or-flight reflex is to smite. But that doesn't explain why clerics don't have it as well.

While it could be argued that paladins literally don't fear anything, I believe that following the description to the letter is a mistake.

We are talking about fear-fear here. The kind of fear that pops as a red skull at the side of your portrait that makes your character nope and the players go like oh not this shit again. It is the combination of the divine nature of the class with their "no stepping back" dogma.

Perhaps there are paladins that swallow and hesitate before taking a step further. Perhaps there are those who hold the confident smile and ahead without doubt - while in the back of their heads they are like "oh gods, oh gods, I don't even know what is going to happen now". Nervous? They can be. Afraid? Yes. Fearful that something may happen? Yes. Outright scared? Panicked? Frightened? No.

That's my take on it.

I've always thought of it like this, and some people have already mentioned a similar thing. Yes Paladins do still have the regular emotion of fear or nervousness or however you want to describe it. Almost anybody is capable of moving forward despite the normal emotion of fear. Where Paladins differ is that either through their training or some sort of divine protection they are immune to supernatural fear (ie dragon auras or the fear spell). It's not that they don't feel the emotion, they just can't be forced to feel it in such an overpowering way.

Yossarin wrote:

I have always found that ability amusing if you interpret fear as a survival instinct. :wink:

I think Phearnun has it nailed though. Oh and also Tequilus. Oh and also if you brainwash someone enough there's not enough room for all those other dirty scary thoughts to even have an existence.

Aura of Courage (Su)
Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.

This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

Quoted from the SRD

Su = Supernatural, thus assumedly a gift granted by their divine patrons.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

I have always found that ability amusing if you interpret fear as a survival instinct. :wink:

I think Phearnun has it nailed though. Oh and also Tequilus. Oh and also if you brainwash someone enough there's not enough room for all those other dirty scary thoughts to even have an existence.

I agree. But I am still tickled by the concept that paladins have their survival instincts removed and are like holy lemmings.

Paladins are immune to magical, psionic, and foreign influences of fear on their minds. They are however quite capable of being afraid naturally if they lack the intestinal fortitude to do something just as anybody else is. It's been explained in most paladin books printed over the years.

Yeah. Honestly, the idea of a Paladin being like "I fear nothing! Not even a dragon! Have at ye and face judgement, for nothing will ever make me run away in fear." was always hilarious to me. Overall, they are still afraid, but they have the focus to overcome that fear, generally, to do what they need to do. Whether it's taking down that thousand year old lich, protecting innocents, etc.

Sleep Forever wrote:

"Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise)."

They don't fear anything.

I'd like to think that being immune means that they can still feel fear, but they are not compelled by it. Fear is something people feel, and the fact that paladins are "immune" to it and aren't described as "not experiencing" it tells me something. Everyone fears, but Paladins are given the ability to act beyond that fear by their god. Their heart is given power over their fear and they are allowed to do incredible things.

Indeed. You can have your fear instinct suppressed, but as a Paladin you have a Holy responsiblilty to your deity and to the innocent.

I don't see why it should have to be any one explanation for it. People can make a good argument for one or another. I imagine the dialogue would be spectacular between a Ultramarine Paladin who simply doesn't possess the mortal emotion of fear and a cowardly paladin who can only stand in battle by the constant will of his god backing him up.

End of the day, the Paladin class is immune to being mechanically influenced by Fear, magical or not. Beyond that, the flavor of "why" and "how" seems perfectly up for grabs.

@Grymia

Couldn't the same be said for clerics?

Paladins are however granted such a responsibility due to their ethos.. ((Y'know, the whole reason why Paladins are Lawful Good Only?))

Again, why? Why is a paladin of Torm immune to fear, but a cleric of Torm isn't? They're both bound to the same code and morality.

Because they are different classes. Why don't sorcerers get bardic performance and tumble?

The difference in class isn't really what's being asked. It's more a lore thing. Overall, the way I see the difference is that the cleric of Torm, unlike the paladin, isn't particularly bound to an actual oath. Yes, they have an oath and they need to follow it, but paladins are /sworn/ to it above anything else. They are also built for combat and, due to their expertise and unwavering faith through their solid oath, gain the will power to face that fear. Clerics, mechanically, do have a great Will save and rely on Wisdom as a whole. This represents that they could have a strong will against fear, but possibly not enough resolve to face it down when it comes to something huge. some could argue that Clerics are also built for battle, but they generally are closer to priests. Yes, they can fight. Especially with buffs. Mechanically, it depends on how someone builds them. They are bound to their deity as all priests are, as well. But they aren't specifically built for something like /war/. They have the will power to face their fears easily, as I mentioned, but their oath doesn't exactly define their entire life. They follow the deity's dogma to the tee, but this simply grants them the divine favour to call on the deity's power through prayer. And again, mechanically, it's more of a balancing thing.

I kinda feel like I started rambling there. LOL.

As far as I'm concerned, the difference between a paladin and a cleric depends on the faith, but in most circumstances the paladin is trained to actively combat evil while the cleric is trained to be a shepherd of the masses.

Both classes combat fear in different ways - a cleric (by virtue of great will saves and high wisdom) is likely to resist fear due to having a greater comprehension of what that fear really is via insight and clarity. A paladin is trained to be unflinching in the face of fear because of the two classes they are the more likely to be exposed directly to whatever horrors exist, and their training is somewhat abbreviated in that regard (low will save but more than made up for by other class abilities) to better focus on combat.

In short, a cleric understands there is nothing to fear, and a paladin believes in courage.

I'd say it's mostly a divine gift from their patron, which would explain why a low level paladin isn't immune to fear and a higher level is.

I am sure a paladin would be hard to spook even without it but it would explain why a high level champion or cleric could turn tail and run without the right wards where a paladin never would never be forced to do it (If he chose to run regardless he'd likely be in trouble for breaking his vows.) That doesn't mean a paladin is fearless or doesn't know fear (He may fear others being hurt) but fear never rules him or her and dictates his response to a threat.

Paladins' get immunity to fear at level 2, however. So it's not a gift given to only the highest leveled Paladin, it's given to nearly everyone who's just graduated from Paladin Academy.

Paladins and immunity to fear

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