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Is there anywhere I can find more information on Monks of the Old Order?

The Old Order seems like it was designed to be as generic as possible. They don't seem to have any guiding doctrine at all, so far as I can tell, apart from "we're monks and we do monk things."

FRCS p.25 wrote:

Old Order (Neutral, Sometimes Good, Rarely Evil): Monks of the Old Order do not worship any deity, but are devoted to the philosophy espoused by a deity who is either now dead or has never existed on the Material Plane of Toril. The monks contradict themselves on this point, but the deity’s identity isn’t important to them, it’s the message they care about. The Old Order never has huge monasteries, but has spread widely throughout Faerûn. Monks of the Old Order can multiclass freely as rogues, sorcerers, and shadowdancers, but must maintain more monk levels than their combined levels of other classes.

That's the entirety of their canon lore, so far as I've ever been able to find.

That's all I've really found, too. I'm worried that I keep seeing 'It's the message/philosophy they're concerned with', but then there's no information on what that philosophy actually is.

That's caught my eye, too. Personally, I would steer clear of the order and invent one of my own. It doesn't take much to outdo canon monk lore anyway, it's usually very generic and stereotypical.

I looked around, and there seem to be exactly four references. The FRCS one quoted above, alignment and multiclassing restrictions listed in F&P web enhancement, a mention in some online WotC article that the Old Order do not worship at the Waterdeep Plinth devoted to all faiths where servants of dead gods tend to hang, and apparently this NWN2 item description, which is obviously non-canon:

Quote:

Robes of the Old Order: Whatever the motives of the Monks of the Old Order might be, no one doubts that they are keenly, defensively minded. Rumor has it that the masters of the order attain ranks by being able to survive a beating by an Ogre, without ever raising a hand in defense. True or not, these robes, produced by the order to fund monasteries, are the trade mark of any monk who would survive in the frontlines of combat, against an enemy clad in armor.

The consensus seems to be that they're a blank slate just created to give players some monkish affiliation. Eric Boyd agrees.

IronAngel wrote:

Personally, I would steer clear of the order and invent one of my own.

What, if anything, goes into making a monk order? Is it just an extension of one's strong personal code/ethics/beliefs and trying to get others to follow them? Is it an order even if you're the only one?

Mercedes wrote:

What, if anything, goes into making a monk order? Is it just an extension of one's strong personal code/ethics/beliefs and trying to get others to follow them? Is it an order even if you're the only one?

Since there is no international governing body, there obviously isn't any normative set of criteria. I suppose there could be an order of one, but monks don't always identify with an order anyhow - often they are students of a particular school of thought or disciples of a specific master, dead or alive. Not everyone who develops a personal style and philosophy establishes an order. But looking at real monastic orders, you generally make an authoritative Rule to govern the daily life and, if associated with a church organization, you get the approval of your superiors. The Pope can approve new monastic orders (though they tend to be based on the Benedictine or Augustine Rules, with some additions), and I imagine that's very much how it works in Faerûnian churches. Independent orders would probably be based on a monastery whose first abbot/leader set down some rule that they began to follow.

But yeah, I guess it can be just one guy trying to persuade others to follow them. You can try to start your own philosophy that may become a school as you get students and might grow into an order if it is formalized and/or gains a monastery as a base of operations. I was more suggesting you make up your own, already-existing school/order, though. There are enough people and lands in Faerûn to come up with some non-canonical, believable background for a PC I bet.

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